The Ultimate Black Sabbath Creative Sounds Compact Disc Thread

Here is a great place to start. He talks about how to make a great sounding CD-R for the very 1st one:

Roland's favorite CD versions of Black Sabbath albums (part2)

 

Only have Black Sabbath on CS, sounds fantastic!!!

 

Does anyone feel these Creative Sounds discs are the best versions on digital now that the SHM-SACDs have been out a while? Excluding Paranoid.

 

I personally they were mostly awful both before and after the Japan SACDs. The first album sounds okay with the little trick of switching the Pre-Emphasis, but that's about it.

 

I did make a hybrid disc for the S/T it sounds pretty good.
Matches the sound of the castle 1986 disc.
I took the first 5 tracks from the castle 86
and the last 2 tracks from the creative sounds disc set the PE flag manually on all tracks.
Thanks Kevin5Brown
I kept the running order the same as the castle 1996 disc which I like.
I might want to try this for paranoid next using the 33pd and the creative disc for a few tracks.
Any feedback or info from you guys is welcome.

 

I have the Master Of Reality Creative Sounds red faced disc. How is that regarded on here?

 

Not sure don't have that one.

 

I've only heard the Creative Sounds Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, which sounds atrocious, so at least for that title, definitely not.

 

Don't these discs have a lot of dropouts?

 

I have 4 of them I did not hear any issues other than they are bright on the top end.

 

I had a couple and I seem to remember tape problems that were audible on the discs. SBS was one I believe.

 

Which tracks?
I will try and give it a listen

 

Unfortunately I no longer have these discs.

 

A lot of them do, but some don't.

Shoot, I thought I had written stuff like that down when I listened to them, but I didn't.

In general though, unless you're a fanatical completist, most of them aren't worth getting.

I was on a mission for a while to get each version for each. I.e., 6003 and 6003-2 for for Sabotage, for example. (I eventually did, but I am just shy of a fanatical completist!)

 

I think the Creative Sounds releases are really not needed anymore, and probabaly never were. If you're OK with messing around and creating a CDR for listening anyway, I'd rather recommend to try and get CDR copies of the Japan SACDs (for the s/t, MOR, Vol4 and SBS), the mastering of which is FAR superior over any Creative Sounds release. For those who prefer to buy a standard pressed Redbook CD, the 2009 Sanctuary or the 1986 Castle releases would be the way to go for 5 of the first 6 albums, while for Paranoid the 2016 Rhino/Warner or some 1980ies Japanese pressing (I don't remember from the top of my head which one) is probably the best option.

 

My Israeli Creative Sounds Paranoid sounds pretty dang good.

 

So the 2016 Paranoid is actually good sounding?
Similar to the japanese 33pd?
Where can I find a site to get lossless copies of the SACD's?

 

The Creative Sounds SBS definitely has tape dropouts. It's a mess. I was surprised by how bad it sounded.

 

Here is what is supposed to be good for Ozzy Era Black Sabbath

S/T 86 CASTLE Creative Sounds Hybrid ,2009 DELUXE ,SHM SACD too? I want to compare the 16 deluxe to the 09
Paranoid 86 castle,33pd and maybe 2016?
Mor 2009 deulxe,SHM SACD
Vol4 86 Castle,2009 ,SHM SACD
SBS 86 Castle, 2009,SHM SACD
Sabotage 86 Castle with Creative Sounds for the tracks with tape damage,WB 88,2009
TE WB 88 AND WB16?
NSD WB 88 AND WB16?
I like the smoothness of the castle 86 cds but they seem to have a bunch of issues as well.
Pre Emphasis,Tape dropouts,Tape garbles,volume fluctuations and volume transition from track to track varies as well.
Kind of annoying with these cds

 

Which other releases did you compare it to?

 

Well, you know how controversial judgements on sound are here and elsewhere. Here's my personal experience: The 2012 Paranoid (available on 2014 hi-res, 2016 4CD and 2CD sets, 2017 hi-res) does sound good (compared to all others I have checked - which is pretty much all releases that were discussed in Roland's threads), but it also sounds too bright. My friend and fellow member Rnranimal says that the 2012/2016 apparently used a better source tape, but too much EQ. Sounds plausible to me.

But it really all depends on so many factors. E.g. in the place where I live now, my stereo sounds pretty bassy, lacks high end. The same stereo sounded great but a little too bright in my previous place. Where I live now, the 2012 Paranoid sounds just right, in my previous place it sounded way too bright. My current place is simply too small and stuffed to get the sound I want.

One thing that can be objectively said is that the 2012/2016 sounds totally different form the 33PD.

In a proper room with my stereo, the 33PD sounds just great "as is"; the 2012 sounds great too but too bright. When I use EQ to reduce the high end, I prefer the 2012.

For me the 2016 CD was a must-have anyway, but the 4CD Super Deluxe box includes not only the 2012 remaster of the Paranoid album that we are discussing, but also a great-sounding stereo downmix of the Quad mix and two amazing 1970 live shows: Brussels and Montreux.
https://www.amazon.com/Paranoid-Del...sr=8-1&keywords=paranoid+super+deluxe+sabbath

The SACD for the 1st album is clearly the best version IMO, but this album needs a hybrid anyway because of the Evil Woman vs. Wicked World issue. For "Wicked World", the 2012 remaster is great (but needs EQ to reduce the high-end). Also, Rnranimal noticed a tape issue with Evil Woman on the SACD and several other releases, so you might even want to combine 3 releases for the s/t.

Your list is very good for the first 5 albums, I think, if you are in the camp of people who prefer warm, natural, dark and dynamic sound over bright and super-detailed (and possibly compressed) sound. Most of the dark/warm/etc people will not like any of the 2012 remasters (available on the WB 2016 CDs etc.) though, although at least they are not compressed (and Paranoid and the song Wicked World are IMO really good despite their over-brightness). I would be very surprised if the 2012 NSD or TE would be upgrades. Haven't not done any extensive comparisons for both albums yet, and I am not entirely sure which release(s) I prefer for Sabotage either. Those 3 are really problematic albums. Now that the 2012 remasters seem to be used for almost every new digital release, I am afraid that the chance to finally get a satisfying digital version are even lower than before.

Thanks very much for creating this thread and keeping it updated, by the way. It is great that all this information about the mess that Creative Sounds recordings are is finally put in one thread.

I have not yet checked if any of my CD releases is different from these. Can anyone please explain to me how to get the peak numbers? Is there a specific Foobar plugin for that? (My physical discs are in story, I have them ripped to mostly FLAC img+cue and some split FLAC on my hard drive.)

 

OK, I am now trying to get the peak values via Cuetools. I have this:

Paranoid
6007, USA, black
Matrix: NEL CD 6003 SRC=01

incl. "Wicked World" live as bonus track.

And Cuetools gives me these peak values:
01 87,5
02 81,2
03 73,2
04 81,8
05 74,3
06 97,4
07 65,9
08 84,6
09 86,7


And another CS release of the same album:

Paranoid
6007, USA, red
Matrix: 6007 (11519 AZ) SRC+01

01 100,0
02 100,0
03 92,0
04 93,3
05 100,0
06 100,0
07 100,0
08 78,0

Should I add these to the others on one post?

 

I've only owned the Israeli Creative Sounds and the WB CD (no longer own this).

Without doing a direct comparison, the Israeli sounds like a neutral EQ job or a flat transfer.

 

Update for Paranoid, Master of Reality, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and Live at Last.


Disc Information:

Black Sabbath

Peak levels: 100/89.8/85/92.3/89.8
for the following 3 discs:

449805-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449805-2 103

6006, USA, red
Matrix: W. O. # H9556-1 11518AZ 6006

6006-2, Power Sound 2001, black
Matrix: ADFL 02VH4<530> 8413 IFPI DG22 6006-2


Peak levels: 99.3/87.2/83.1/85.2/85.8
for the following disc:

Matrix: INTER SERVICE PRESSE DIGIP 6006


Paranoid

Peak levels: 100/100/92.0/93.3/100/100/100/78.0
for the following 3 discs:

449806-2, Germany, black
Matrix: 449806-2

6007-2
Matrix: Made In Israel PS-6007-2 A2 <3110456>

6007, USA, red
Matrix: 6007 (11519 AZ) SRC+01

Peak levels: 98.1/96.9/88.0/90.6/97.1/96.7/97.1/75.3
for the following disc:

6007, Holland, red
Matrix: CDM CA ZZ 01/6007 01 @

Peak levels: 87.5/81.2/73.2/81.8/74.3/97.4/65.9/84.6/86.7
for the following disc:

6007, USA, black
Matrix: NEL CD 6003 SRC=01
includes "Wicked World" live as bonus track.


Master Of Reality

Peak levels: 92/81.3/94.3/47.3/61.9/93.2/43.6/89.8/98.6
for the following disc:

6004, USA, black
Matrix: SRC-01 NELCD6004

Peak levels: 74.4/77.9/40.5/81.6/47.2/88.9/84.1/66.9
for the following 3 discs:

6004, USA, red
Matrix: 6004 (11516 AZ) SRC=01

6004-2
Matrix: PS-6004-2NS 3112697 IFPI DG22

449803-2
Matrix: PILZ CD 449803-2 103

Peak Levels: 67.1/71.6/40.1/76.5/48.7/77.2/78.9/64.8
for the following disc:

6004, USA, black
Matrix: MANUFACTURED BY AMERICAN HELIX 1/1C1099A00440 W.O. # E8007-1


Children Of The Grave

Peak levels: 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7
for the following disc:

6011-2
Matrix: ADFL 0ABU4<530>60112

Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55/59.1/60.7
for the following 2 discs:

449807-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449807-2 [K 30546 A]

6011-2, Germany
Matrix: PILZ CD

Peak levels: 66.9/50.5/69.8/39.3/62.1/73.5/72.4/60.4/56.2/60.5/62.0
for the following 2 discs:

6011, USA
Matrix: manufactured by American Helix

Creative Sounds 6011, made in USA
Disc inner ring : 12268 AZ CD-6011 SA12506
Back cover barcode: 0 16726-6011-4 8


Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

Peak levels: 89.0/100/57.0/93.1/100/88.0/99.9/100
for the following disc:

Creative Sound 6005, made in USA
Disc inner ring: 6005 (11517 AZ) SRC=01
Back cover barcode: 0 16726-6005-2 3

Peak levels: 87.1/97.8/55.8/91.1/97.8/86.1/97.7/97.8
for the following disc:

449804-2, Germany, Black (discogs number=5285071)
Matrix: PILZ CD 449804-2 [K 30551 A]


We Sold Our Soul For Rock 'n Roll
No peak level information yet acquired.


Sabotage

Peak levels: 86.3/37.3/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3
for the following disc:

449802-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449802-2 103

Greatest Hits

Peak levels: 99.2/81.4/86.7/99.2/99.2/99.2/92.0/61.8/97.8/99.2
for the following disc:

Matrix: CSL/EMS 6002 SRC=01

Live At Last

Peak levels: 95.1/89.1/77.4/68.5/86.6/65.3/93.7/97.8/97.8
for the following disc:

PS NEMS 6001-2, black
Matrix: MADE IN ISRAEL PS-6001-2 A2 <3110450>

Peak Levels 96.7/87.1/77.4/68.4/88.2/67.9/94.9/99.6/99.7
for the following disc:

1987
CSL/NEMS 6001, red
Made in USA
Matrix: Technidisc #294-127-002-B 12/30/87J "BLACK SABBATH" "LIVE AT LAST"

 

Great, thanks for the update. It's possible I will have more to add, will check soon.

On
Black Sabbath - Live At Last
I found the following interesting comment:

I don't know if that's true, but given the amateurish/piratish making of many of these CS releases, the huge differences between different copies of the same album and their turbulent history, it seems totally possible that at least some of them were LP-rips. That would also at least partly explain why they sound good to some people (even though I am pretty sure that there are much higher-quality LP-rips around these days).