The Ultimate Black Sabbath Creative Sounds Compact Disc Thread

I am way behind on reading threads right now. [stupid new job, which is 4 months old now and has not let up ... I'll get there!]

 

Oh, I am sorry to hear it, and I am crossing fingers that either the job is not really stupid and will soon turn more relaxed, or you'll find something better!
Take care,
Linda

 

Haven't seen much info if any about the tape issues with all these different mastering for these discs!!!!
Anyone have info to post about them?
I have noticed a few minor things here and there with a few of them

 

I have Paranoid and Master on the Germany black printing and they blow me away. I can hear some "tape anomolies" and "limitations" . but I can live with it. These things sound fantastic !

 

I actually think these discs sound pretty good, all things considered for cheap looking pieces of crap.
I have those german ones too.
They definitely are not compressed sounding which is a good thing.

 

If you are already blown away by the CS recordings, chances are you would explode when you listen to one of the better releases. Just sayin. ;-)
Linda's favorite digital versions of all Black Sabbath albums

 

I believe they came from a record distributor in Darby, Pa. Either bootleg or some shady deal.

 

This has already been answered above:

So, not really bootlegs but legal releases - though the band was definitely not happy about them.

 

The all knowing Linda has spoken!!!!!
Your opinions according to her are just wrong Lol

 

Oh Well!!!!

 

Just added one s/t release with different peak levels. Thanks to @RnRmf!

UPDATED LIST
(I just added yet another reissue of the s/t debut.)

Disc Information:

Black Sabbath

Peak levels: 100/89.8/85/92.3/89.8
for the following 4 discs:

449805-2, Germany, black (Note: this one was posted by S. P. Honeybunch; blacksabbathrainbow got a very slightly different peak value for the 1st track, 99.9. See below.)
Matrix: PILZ CD 449805-2 103

6006, USA, red
Matrix: W. O. # H9556-1 11518AZ 6006

6006-2, USA, black
Matrix: 6006-2

6006-2 (on the spine), 6006 (on the disc), USA, black
Matrix: ADFL 02VH4<530>60062

6006-2, Power Sound 2001, black
Matrix: ADFL 02VH4<530> 8413 IFPI DG22 6006-2

Peak levels: 99.9/89.8/85/92.3/89.8
for the following disc:

449805-2, Germany, black (Note: this one was posted by blacksabbathrainbow; S. P. Honeybunch got a very slightly different peak value for the 1st track, 100. See above.)
Matrix: PILZ CD 449805-2 103

Peak levels: 99.3/87.2/83.1/85.2/85.8
for the following disc:

6006, USA, black (Note: this is the one that Roland recommended for side 2 of this album, with the PE flag manually switched on in EAC.)
Matrix: INTER SERVICE PRESSE DIGIP 6006

Peak levels: 71,4/58,4/67,4/74,5/65,4
for the following disc:

6006, Holland, red
Matrix: CDM CA 77 01/6006 01 @@
Back cover barcode: 0 16726-6006-2 2


Paranoid

Peak levels: 100/100/92.0/93.3/100/100/100/78.0
for the following 4 discs:

449806-2, Germany, black
Matrix: 449806-2

6007-2
Matrix: Made In Israel PS-6007-2 A2 <3110456>

6007-2, USA, black
Matrix: 6007-2

6007, USA, red
Matrix: 6007 (11519 AZ) SRC+01

Peak levels: 98.1/96.9/88.0/90.6/97.1/96.7/97.1/75.3
for the following disc:

6007, Holland, red
Matrix: CDM CA ZZ 01/6007 01 @

Peak levels: 87.5/81.2/73.2/81.8/74.3/97.4/65.9/84.6/86.7
for the following disc:

6007, USA, black
Matrix: NEL CD 6003 SRC=01
includes "Wicked World" live as bonus track.


Master Of Reality

Peak levels: 92/81.3/94.3/47.3/61.9/93.2/43.6/89.8/98.6
for the following disc:

6004, USA, black
Matrix: SRC-01 NELCD6004

Peak levels: 92/81.3/55.6/94.3/61.9/93.2/43.6/89.8/98.6
for the following disc:

6004, USA, black
Matrix: NEL CD 6004 SRC=01

Peak levels: 74.4/77.9/40.5/81.6/47.2/88.9/84.1/66.9
for the following 3 discs:

6004, USA, red
Matrix: 6004 (11516 AZ) SRC=01

6004-2
Matrix: PS-6004-2NS 3112697 IFPI DG22

449803-2
Matrix: PILZ CD 449803-2 103

Peak Levels: 67.1/71.6/40.1/76.5/48.7/77.2/78.9/64.8
for the following disc:

6004, USA, black
Matrix: MANUFACTURED BY AMERICAN HELIX 1/1C1099A00440 W.O. # E8007-1


Children Of The Grave

Peak levels: 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7
for the following disc:

6011-2
Matrix: ADFL 0ABU4<530>60112

Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55/59.1/60.7
for the following 3 discs:

449807-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449807-2 [K 30546 A]

6011-2, Germany
Matrix: PILZ CD

PS-SR 6011-2, Power Sound 2001, Germany 1996, black
Matrix: 0E5D5 < 530 > PSNEMS60112

Peak levels: 66.9/50.5/69.8/39.3/62.1/73.5/72.4/60.4/56.2/60.5/62.0
for the following 2 discs:

6011, USA
Matrix: manufactured by American Helix

Creative Sounds 6011, made in USA
Disc inner ring : 12268 AZ CD-6011 SA12506
Back cover barcode: 0 16726-6011-4 8


Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

Peak levels: 89.0/100/57.0/93.1/100/88.0/99.9/100
for the following 2 discs:

Creative Sound 6005, made in USA
Disc inner ring: 6005 (11517 AZ) SRC=01
Back cover barcode: 0 16726-6005-2 3

6005, USA, red
Matrix: 3A 11517 BZ (6005)-2 SRC=3

Peak levels: 87.1/97.8/55.8/91.1/97.8/86.1/97.7/97.8
for the following disc:

449804-2, Germany, Black (discogs number=5285071)
Matrix: PILZ CD 449804-2 [K 30551 A]

Peak levels: 81.7/84.3/59.0/84.2/82.9/84.5/83.5/85.4
for the following disc:

6005-02, USA, black
Matrix: 6005-2


We Sold Our Soul For Rock 'n Roll
(Note blacksabbathrainbow: There are about a billion different CS releases of this compilation out there.)

Peak levels disc 1: 96.4/99.2/99.2/99.0/99.1/94.5/88.6
Peak levels disc 2: 99.2/99.0/87.0/99.2/99.2/99.1/99.2/63.9/99.2/96.8

for the following 2xCD:

CD 8001, USA 1987, black
Has the following number printed on both discs: CSL NEMS 8001
Matrix disc 1: CSL/NEMS 8001-1 SRC-01
Matrix disc 2: CSL/NEMS 8001-2 SRC=01


Sabotage

Peak levels: 86.3/37.3/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3
for the following disc:

449802-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449802-2 103

Peak levels: 86.3/20.8/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3
for the following disc:

6003, USA, red
Matrix: 6003 (11515 AZ) SRC+01

Peak levels: 86.3/42.0/91.6/87/59.3/96.4/84.3
for the following disc:

6003, USA, red
Matrix: UQ41<022>SSI6003-11515AZ


Greatest Hits

Peak levels: 99.2/81.4/86.7/99.2/99.2/99.2/92.0/61.8/97.8/99.2
for the following disc:

Matrix: CSL/EMS 6002 SRC=01


Live At Last

Peak levels: 95.1/89.1/77.4/68.5/86.6/65.3/93.7/97.8/97.8
for the following 2 discs:

PS NEMS 6001-2, black
Matrix: MADE IN ISRAEL PS-6001-2 A2 <3110450>

6001-02, Germany, black
Has the following number printed on disc: CSL/NEMS 449800-2
Matrix: PILZ CD 449800-2 [ K 30550 B ]

Peak Levels 96.7/87.1/77.4/68.4/88.2/67.9/94.9/99.6/99.7
for the following disc:

1987
CSL/NEMS 6001, red
Made in USA
Matrix: Technidisc #294-127-002-B 12/30/87J "BLACK SABBATH" "LIVE AT LAST"

Peak levels: 97.2/91.0/79.1/70.0/88.5/66.7/95.8/100.0/100.0
for the following disc:

6001, USA, red
Has the following number printed on disc: CSL/NEMS 6001
Matrix: 13S 10749 AZ

 

After adjusting the volume levels, all CS copies of the debut album that I have sound pretty much the same to me. And worse (brighter and noisier) than my favorites digital releases for this album, which are the SACD, 2009 Sanctuary CD, 2016 Rhino CD (same mastering as the 2014 HDtracks except for Wicked World) and 1986 Castle CD.

 

Does anyone know if the Castle SBS peak levels match any of these Creative Sounds CDs?

 

AFAIK, none of the Sabbath CS releases matches any Castle release.

 

Picked up three Black Sabbath CS releases today.

Black Sabbath - 6006, USA, red
Matrix: W. O. # H9556-1 11518AZ

(listening to this right now) Master of Reality - 6004, USA, red
Matrix / Runout: 6004 (11516 AZ) SRC=01

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath - 449804-2, Germany, Black
Matrix / Runout: PILZ CD 449804-2

Are these supposed to suck, or do they stack up well next to any recent remasters?

 

That's a tricky question, especially given that most of the recent remasters really suck themselves. Some Sabbath CS CDs sound decent, but IMO even the best of them sound worse than the best non-CS releases available. There are other people here who still like this or that CS release, but overall it is fair to say that CS CDs have been playing virtually no role in serious (comparison-based) discussions about what are the best available masterings for Sabbath's back catalogue since about 2012. Even for those albums where a CS CD had been favored or used by some in earlier discussions (usually with the recommendation to de-emphasized them even none of the CS CDs have pre-emphasis), there are now what the vast majority considers to be better options.

Please note that none of this is meant to suggest you should get any of the more recent remasters, but also please note that some not-so-recent remasters - the 2009 Sanctuary CDs (first and best serious of Pearce remasters) for the debut, MOR, Vol4 and, with certain caveats, Sabotage and SBS - are highly recommended.
Linda's favorite digital versions of all Black Sabbath albums

P.s.: I hope it goes without saying that I am not suggesting you get rid of your CS CDs without listening to them first. If you like their sound, and you don't feel like starting comparisons or hunting for better versions, they are obviously all you need.

 

If you actually listen to the Creative Sounds discs, almost all of them have tape defects on them. One channel with different volume than the other for a spell, drop outs, mistracking, etc. I was on a mission once to get every one of them a la 600x and 600x-2 versions, and compare to regular releases, because I was wondering if there were any other gems in there like for the 1st one. There aren't. The Creative Sounds for Live at Last isn't bad either though, but it's eq'ed so similarly to the official '86 Castle CDs that it's not worth it to seek it out.

 

Better late than never I'd like my first post on this fine forum (I'm reading-only since years and years) to be about one of my all time favourite bands, which is - obviously - Black Sabbath.

I can add the following data to this discussion:

Sabotage

Peak levels: 86.3/37.8/91.6/91.2/87.0/59.3/96.4/84.3
6003-2, UK, black (release date unknown, but probably 1987)
Matrix / Runout: PS-6003-2 A2 3110452 8412
Discogs: 10692968

(These are identical to what we already have seen with the other versions added.)


Live At Last

Peak levels: 98.3/98.3/91.4/81.5/93.3/82.3/98.3/98.3/98.3
CSL/NEMS 6001, USA, black (released in 1987)
Matrix / Runout: CLS/NEMS 6001 SRC=01
Discogs: 8645191

(These are different from what we've gathered so far.)


Greatest Hits

Peak levels: 78.1/65.8/75.1/78.4/80.0/76.0/77.4/55.5/84.2
CSL/NEMS 6002, USA, red (release date unknown, but probably 1986)
Matrix / Runout: 13R 10750 AZ
Discogs: 4372825

(A version with quite the difference to the one already posted, isn't it?)


Although I am aware that this thread is strictly about Creative Sounds, I would like to express, that "Power Sound 2001" released a few cheap Sabbath CDs in 1986 and 1996, simultaneously to the '96 Castle remasters. Power Sound 2001 released these CDs using the sentence "all track courtesy to Patrick Meehan"... I don't know too much about this, but to me it seems to be just another label these guys used for repressing the same music over and over again? I'm pretty sure they are more or less the same bunch of people, even using the "NEMS" matrix code. So I would like to add their data here, too. Feel free to just ignore them, though, but there are already a few of them in the list anyway

We Sold Our Soul For Rock'n'Roll, Volume II

Peak levels: 59.0/65.0/55.7/60.8/72.7/60.3/61.8/53.7/70.5/52.5
PS-NEMS 6052-2, USA, clear (this compilation was first issued in 1987, mine was released in 1996)
Matrix / Runout: PS-6052-2 A2 3110448
Discogs: 472391


Children of the Grave

Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55.0/59.1/60.7
Power Sound 2001 – PS NEMS 6011-2, Power Sound 2001 – PS-SR 6011-2 (released in 1996)
Matrix / Runout: Made in Israel, PS-6011-2, A1, <3110457>
Discogs: 10857328

(We have already three identical versions in the list.)


I will start a listening test and will compare them later.

 

Thank you very much, your work is greatly appreciated! Yes, I agree Power Sound should be included, it is really just a new label for Creative Sounds/Patrick Meehan/Dorchester Holding.

 

UPDATED LIST
Just added the recent additions. Thanks to @reaperrich!



Black Sabbath

Peak levels: 100/89.8/85/92.3/89.8
for the following 4 discs:

449805-2, Germany, black (Note: this one was posted by S. P. Honeybunch; blacksabbathrainbow got a very slightly different peak value for the 1st track, 99.9. See below.)
Matrix: PILZ CD 449805-2 103

6006, USA, red
Matrix: W. O. # H9556-1 11518AZ 6006

6006-2, USA, black
Matrix: 6006-2

6006-2 (on the spine), 6006 (on the disc), USA, black
Matrix: ADFL 02VH4<530>60062

6006-2, Power Sound 2001, black
Matrix: ADFL 02VH4<530> 8413 IFPI DG22 6006-2

Peak levels: 99.9/89.8/85/92.3/89.8
for the following disc:

449805-2, Germany, black (Note: this one was posted by blacksabbathrainbow; S. P. Honeybunch got a very slightly different peak value for the 1st track, 100. See above.)
Matrix: PILZ CD 449805-2 103

Peak levels: 99.3/87.2/83.1/85.2/85.8
for the following disc:

6006, USA, black (Note: this is the one that Roland recommended for side 2 of this album, with the PE flag manually switched on in EAC.)
Matrix: INTER SERVICE PRESSE DIGIP 6006

Peak levels: 71,4/58,4/67,4/74,5/65,4
for the following disc:

6006, Holland, red
Matrix: CDM CA 77 01/6006 01 @@
Back cover barcode: 0 16726-6006-2 2


Paranoid

Peak levels: 100/100/92.0/93.3/100/100/100/78.0
for the following 4 discs:

449806-2, Germany, black
Matrix: 449806-2

6007-2
Matrix: Made In Israel PS-6007-2 A2 <3110456>

6007-2, USA, black
Matrix: 6007-2

6007, USA, red
Matrix: 6007 (11519 AZ) SRC+01

Peak levels: 98.1/96.9/88.0/90.6/97.1/96.7/97.1/75.3
for the following disc:

6007, Holland, red
Matrix: CDM CA ZZ 01/6007 01 @

Peak levels: 87.5/81.2/73.2/81.8/74.3/97.4/65.9/84.6/86.7
for the following disc:

6007, USA, black
Matrix: NEL CD 6003 SRC=01
includes "Wicked World" live as bonus track.


Master Of Reality

Peak levels: 92/81.3/94.3/47.3/61.9/93.2/43.6/89.8/98.6
for the following disc:

6004, USA, black
Matrix: SRC-01 NELCD6004

Peak levels: 92/81.3/55.6/94.3/61.9/93.2/43.6/89.8/98.6
for the following disc:

6004, USA, black
Matrix: NEL CD 6004 SRC=01

Peak levels: 74.4/77.9/40.5/81.6/47.2/88.9/84.1/66.9
for the following 3 discs:

6004, USA, red
Matrix: 6004 (11516 AZ) SRC=01

6004-2
Matrix: PS-6004-2NS 3112697 IFPI DG22

449803-2
Matrix: PILZ CD 449803-2 103

Peak Levels: 67.1/71.6/40.1/76.5/48.7/77.2/78.9/64.8
for the following disc:

6004, USA, black
Matrix: MANUFACTURED BY AMERICAN HELIX 1/1C1099A00440 W.O. # E8007-1


Children Of The Grave (aka Vol. 4)

Peak levels: 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7
for the following disc:

6011-2
Matrix: ADFL 0ABU4<530>60112

Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55.0/59.1/60.7
for the following 4 discs:

449807-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449807-2 [K 30546 A]

6011-2, Germany
Matrix: PILZ CD

PS-SR 6011-2, Power Sound 2001, Germany 1996, black
Matrix: 0E5D5 < 530 > PSNEMS60112

Power Sound 2001 – PS NEMS 6011-2, Power Sound 2001 – PS-SR 6011-2 (released in 1996)
Matrix: Made in Israel, PS-6011-2, A1, <3110457>
Discogs: 10857328


Peak levels: 66.9/50.5/69.8/39.3/62.1/73.5/72.4/60.4/56.2/60.5/62.0
for the following 2 discs:

6011, USA
Matrix: manufactured by American Helix

Creative Sounds 6011, made in USA
Disc inner ring : 12268 AZ CD-6011 SA12506
Back cover barcode: 0 16726-6011-4 8


Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

Peak levels: 89.0/100/57.0/93.1/100/88.0/99.9/100
for the following 2 discs:

Creative Sound 6005, made in USA
Disc inner ring: 6005 (11517 AZ) SRC=01
Back cover barcode: 0 16726-6005-2 3

6005, USA, red
Matrix: 3A 11517 BZ (6005)-2 SRC=3

Peak levels: 87.1/97.8/55.8/91.1/97.8/86.1/97.7/97.8
for the following disc:

449804-2, Germany, Black (discogs number=5285071)
Matrix: PILZ CD 449804-2 [K 30551 A]

Peak levels: 81.7/84.3/59.0/84.2/82.9/84.5/83.5/85.4
for the following disc:

6005-02, USA, black
Matrix: 6005-2


We Sold Our Soul For Rock 'n Roll
(Note blacksabbathrainbow: There are about a billion different CS releases of this compilation out there.)

Peak levels disc 1: 96.4/99.2/99.2/99.0/99.1/94.5/88.6
Peak levels disc 2: 99.2/99.0/87.0/99.2/99.2/99.1/99.2/63.9/99.2/96.8

for the following 2xCD:

CD 8001, USA 1987, black
Has the following number printed on both discs: CSL NEMS 8001
Matrix disc 1: CSL/NEMS 8001-1 SRC-01
Matrix disc 2: CSL/NEMS 8001-2 SRC=01


We Sold Our Soul For Rock 'n Roll, Volume II

Peak levels: 59.0/65.0/55.7/60.8/72.7/60.3/61.8/53.7/70.5/52.5

for the following disc:

PS-NEMS 6052-2, USA, clear (this compilation was first issued in 1987, this one was released in 1996)
Matrix: PS-6052-2 A2 3110448
Discogs: 472391


Sabotage

Peak levels: 86.3/37.3/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3
for the following 2 discs:

449802-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449802-2 103

6003-2, UK, black (release date unknown, but probably 1987)
Matrix: PS-6003-2 A2 3110452 8412
Discogs: 10692968

Peak levels: 86.3/20.8/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3
for the following disc:

6003, USA, red
Matrix: 6003 (11515 AZ) SRC+01

Peak levels: 86.3/42.0/91.6/87/59.3/96.4/84.3
for the following disc:

6003, USA, red
Matrix: UQ41<022>SSI6003-11515AZ


Greatest Hits

Peak levels: 99.2/81.4/86.7/99.2/99.2/99.2/92.0/61.8/97.8/99.2
for the following disc:

Matrix: CSL/EMS 6002 SRC=01

Peak levels: 78.1/65.8/75.1/78.4/80.0/76.0/77.4/55.5/84.2
CSL/NEMS 6002, USA, red (release date unknown, but probably 1986)
Matrix / Runout: 13R 10750 AZ
Discogs: 437282


Live At Last

Peak levels: 95.1/89.1/77.4/68.5/86.6/65.3/93.7/97.8/97.8
for the following 2 discs:

PS NEMS 6001-2, black
Matrix: MADE IN ISRAEL PS-6001-2 A2 <3110450>

6001-02, Germany, black
Has the following number printed on disc: CSL/NEMS 449800-2
Matrix: PILZ CD 449800-2 [ K 30550 B ]

Peak Levels: 96.7/87.1/77.4/68.4/88.2/67.9/94.9/99.6/99.7
for the following disc:

CSL/NEMS 6001, red (released in 1987)
Made in USA
Matrix: Technidisc #294-127-002-B 12/30/87J "BLACK SABBATH" "LIVE AT LAST"

Peak levels: 97.2/91.0/79.1/70.0/88.5/66.7/95.8/100.0/100.0
for the following disc:

6001, USA, red
Has the following number printed on disc: CSL/NEMS 6001
Matrix: 13S 10749 AZ[/QUOTE]

Peak levels: 98.3/98.3/91.4/81.5/93.3/82.3/98.3/98.3/98.3
for the following disc:

CSL/NEMS 6001, USA, black (released in 1987)
Matrix / Runout: CLS/NEMS 6001 SRC=01
Discogs: 8645191

 

...and here comes my comparison, part 1:

For "Live at Last" I only have the mentioned 1987 Creative Sounds CD (1) and the 2010 Sanctuary remasters (2).

Crankability: Honestly I prefer the sound of (1) JUST in terms of being able to crank it up. It's less harsh to my ears, but (1) isn't really harsh anyway, just brighter.

Stereo image: To my ears (1) offers what I would call a somewhat broader stage. It sounds as if the drums are EQ'ed differently from (2) in that they just seem a tiny little bit further left and right in each channel. It's hard to describe and I can surely say, it's only a matter of feeling rather than real listening experience. Taking "Cornucopia" as an example: The part that starts at second 35 best describes what I mean. But really, this could come down to the fact that the drums are generally more present in (1) compared to (2).

Sound:
--> Bass: The bass is much deeper and more present on (2) while not sounding compressed or overly deep/strong. It fits in with the rest of the sound and just offers a good balance. On (1) the bass is really lacking and some parts are merely present at all. If I wouldn't know the songs by heart, I'd have to imagine what Geezer plays at times.

--> Drums: The drums are (together with the guitar) the most obvious thing on these issues. On (2) the cymbals are more present and light and so is the snare. You can best hear that at the first 40 seconds of "Wicked World", whereas on (1) the drums are somewhat further away and dark.

--> Guitar: At the beginning of Children of the Grave you can clearly hear that the guitar is a lot more present at the high end on (2) sounds fresh and strong. In comparison it's compressed and dark in (1). Rather dull.

--> Vocals: Ozzy's nasal voice comes through on (2), you can especially listen to this at the beginning of "Paranoid", at which point he screams: "Alright, what do you wanna hear?" whereas on (1) he sounds - again - dark, dull and quite buried in the mix.

--> Tape hiss: At the cost of the overall experience being brighter, naturally the tape hiss is louder on (2) and barely hearable on (1). I don't think they used any filter though. In fact, due to the high end being darker, the hiss just isn't as loud. Pure EQ'ing. Nothing to do with using better (or other) source tapes. You can best detect that on "Paranoid", where there is a little silence after Ozzy asked "What do you want to hear?"

--> Audience: At the cost of the overall experience being brighter, naturally the audience is louder on (2) and darker on (1), but on the other hand at times the audience seems a bit much on (2) as it tends to get a little harsh.

Overall: I personally prefer the overall sound of (2) while I wouldn't conclude that (1) is un-listenable. I don't hear any pops or clicks nor can I detect any tape problems in comparison. Let's keep in mind that the recording isn't anything top notch to begin with, so the EQing is probably the most effective tool at this point and at that (2) just offers more brightness at the high end while preserving a natural bass at the low end without overblowing it. (2) is a good compromise EQing-wise and offers a real 70s concert feeling without doing what the "Live Evil" 2023 remix did, for example, e.g. letting it sound as if recorded in the 2020s. (1) is dark, dull and muffled, but listenable nonetheless.

 

...and here comes my comparison, part 2:

The only other comparison I can offer is that of "Sabotage" due to having no alternatives of the other albums (Greatest Hits, Sold Our Soul, Children of the Grave).

For "Sabotage" I have the 1986 Castle (1) (first CD mastering for Europe), the 1986/1987 (?) Creative Sounds (2), the 2009 Pearce remasters (3) and the 2021 Super Deluxe remasters (4).

Foreword: Now, Sabotage is known to be one of the lousiest sounding Sabbath albums of them all - especially on digital mediums - so I'd like to find, you could say, the best of the bad, without being able to get a really decent sounding digital solution in 2024.

Crankability: (1) and (2) are definitely crankable and rather on the quiet side mastering-wise. Full dynamics, I'd say. (3) is louder overall in comparison, but still crankable, if a little less so since it sounds brighter and therefore can get a tad much if your ears are sensitive. (4) is even louder and for me personally it's just too much. Sounds compressed and rather lossy in terms of dynamics. If you want it just loud and don't give much about the sound, take (4), I'd recommend. If you want to be able to crank it up without hurting your ears, take (1) or (2).

Sound:
--> Bass: Surprisingly the bass is pretty strong/audible on all of these releases, just being louder on (3) and (4), but not less strong on (1) and (2) - just quieter due to the whole mix being quieter. If I had to choose, I'd say the bass is a little bit more nuanced on (3) and (4) and stands out of the mix stronger. Just a nuance!

--> Drums: The best in terms of most natural drum sound (in my definition at least) is available on (3). Not too loud (as many contemporary remasters try to define their sound using crystal clear and almost clinical sounding drums that stand far out of the mix), but also not buried. (1) offers rather bright sounding drums - I prefer (3) over (1) here. (2) is darker, but uncritical harsh-wise. (4) is, again, just loud.

--> Guitar: On (1) and (2) the guitar sounds almost identical, with more tape hiss hearable on (2). The guitar sounds quite dark on all versions (again: IMHO) compared to other albums of the Sabs. Even on (3) and (4) the guitar isn't what bothers me (it's the drums and keyboards). Only on (4) the guitar stands a bit out in terms of having a tiny little bit more bass and echo to them (listen to the beginning of "Thrill Of It All" for instance).

--> Vocals: Ozzy's vocals don't seem to the the major issue of these recordings - they are clear (as can be, remembering the overall bad quality of the tapes) throughout the different versions and don't hide in the mix or come out of the mix at any point.

--> Keyboards: They can best be compared at the beginning of "Am I Going Insane?". On (1) the keyboard sounds loud and a bit harsh/bright while on (2) it's more pleasant, but darker. On (3) it sounds almost the same as on (1), but a bit louder and punchier, without being too (!) harsh. (4) ist just a loud mess to my ears, but not as bright (but harsher since louder) as on (1), though.

--> Tape hiss: On (1) the tape hiss is clearly hearable (tested this at the beginning of "The Writ" since the only thing other than the tape hiss is the bass here), while on (2), it's brighter but - to my surprise - a tad quieter. I would go as far as to claim that the Creative Sounds CD is definitely another mastering or source compared to the Castle issue! Now, you could conclude that the EQ'ing is overall brighter on (2), but it's only a little and that's the funny/strange thing about it: The Creative CD doesn't sound any worse, just more analog somehow. I can't say for sure if they used different source tapes or just played with the high end of the equalizer, but to my utmost surprise I prefer the Creative (2) over the Castle (1). Who would have thunk? I personally prefer to hear the tape hiss, but my neighbour could come to another conclusion. On (3) the tapes hiss is darker and hence rather quiet (sorry, I'm missing a better English term here), while on (4) you can hear the tape hiss best - followed by 1. So, from being loud to quiet it's (4), (1), (3), (2).

Overall: The interesting finding to me at this point is, that (1) and (2) are definitely different masterings or sources. Other than being louder and a bit darker than (1), Pearce (3) is just as good, while (2) is my overall favourite of this even though there are tape problems (example: the beginning of "Am I Going Insane?", where there are several dropouts). Honestly, I guess (2) could be a needle drop and maybe that is why I like its sound. Maybe it wasn't being mastered at all, but just copied 1:1 from an LP... (4) is my personal big loser. It's just way too loud and not listenable at higher volumes. The mastering itself is probably based on or at least inspired by (1), since the overall sound is identical: all the instruments plus Ozzy sound the same, just louder in every aspect and hence quite compressed. My personal recommendation: don't buy (4) at all (inferior overall in any aspect), but rather get a copy of (1, if you prefer a quieter, but brighter mix) or (3, if you prefer a louder, but darker mix) or, if you like the analog sound and can live with certain tape problems, get (2). At least the Creative CD is a somewhat interesting if bizarre thing...

Please notice, these findings are my personal experience, listened to with my ears, on my stereo in my room under conditions and circumstances that may and probably will differ to yours. Your experience can be completely different.

 

Strongly disagree with you there - even the ‘96 Ray Staff isn’t bad sounding, it’s such a well produced album it would take major tinkering with it to make it sound lousy.

The forum favourite here is probably the first issue US WB from (iirc) 1988, you should definitely check that one out

 

Did you catch the vocals coming in a fraction earlier on ‘The Writ’? I think it’s a tape issue, someone on here brought it up a couple of years ago. It’s very faint.