The Ultrasonic vinyl cleaner owners thread

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Josquin des Prez, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken! Thread Starter

    Location:
    U.S.
    For me it's more about the mold release agent, that can lead to ticks and pops down the road.
     
    Soundhead likes this.
  2. Spence

    Spence New Member

    Location:
    UK
    Hmm. Then you don’t get to understand the difference the cleaning has made. (Did it even need to be cleaned?) It’s a bit like doing an experiment with no control... it’s easy to clean a stylus if the record did have releasing agent on it that’s come off onto the stylus.
    My thinking is that there’s a trade off between US cleaning and maintaining that magical sound/feeling of a brand new album
     
  3. psulioninks

    psulioninks Forum Resident

    Location:
    KC Chiefs Kingdom
    This.

    If you feel you are "losing" something as a result of using an ultrasonic cleaning process...find an alternative form of cleaning your new/used vinyl. But find something that will work for you - your stylus will thank you.
     
  4. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken! Thread Starter

    Location:
    U.S.
    I disagree with that. I have never heard any loss of quality from cleaning a record.
     
  5. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken! Thread Starter

    Location:
    U.S.
    Also, if you are going to make comments about sound quality, please fill out your profile with the gear you are using. While it's not a forum requirement is is a recommendation, and your posts on sound quality are subject to moderation and deletion otherwise.

    If you are arguing for/against cleaning based new records based on how they sound to you, it's helpful to know if you are using a $500 analog front end or a $20,000 one, for example.
     
    Satrus likes this.
  6. SCM

    SCM Senior Member

    Location:
    Fl
    Not true
     
  7. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken! Thread Starter

    Location:
    U.S.
    I am playing a test pressing now. I played it last week when I received it, without cleaning first because I didn't have my Audio Desk US cleaner. Today I cleaned it with the Audio Desk. It sounds much better, IMO. More dynamic, better clarity, more musical...more magical! It also doesn't play with the ticks and pops it had before.

    Obviously, that's very subjective since it's been a week since I played it last and I didn't do back to back comparisons, but I do not remember being so impressed by it before.
     
  8. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Why are saying it is not true? I have read this in numerous places. Do you have different data?
     
  9. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Why should cleaning degrade an LP?
     
  10. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken! Thread Starter

    Location:
    U.S.
    Simple. It won't.
     
  11. Spence

    Spence New Member

    Location:
    UK
    Whoa - I didn’t realise my comments would create so much excitement. But I’m glad they kick-started the thread in any case!
    As to why cleaning could degrade vinyl: you don’t have to be a science phD to know that anything that interacts with the vinyl has the potential to degrade the fine quality of what has been pressed into it, even if we are talking only by the minutest amount. It appears that US cleaning is thought to be the best method so far because there’s no solid object, such as the hair on a brush, contacting with the vinyl, but people also tend to overlook the power of US because the process is happening in a liquid. Just try hanging a piece of aluminium foil in a US tank and running it for just one minute, and you will see the sheer power of ultrasonic cleaning. Cavitation can wear away solid metal over time. The pressures generated from the cavitation bubble bursting can be huge (hundreds of Mpa) and I have yet to see a convincing scientific study to prove that this has zero affect on a vinyl pressing.
    I trust my ears. And @Josquin des Prez you don’t need to worry about the “cost” of my analog front end... (if I can figure out how and where to post what my components are, where you want me to, and I have the time, then I will!)
     
  12. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken! Thread Starter

    Location:
    U.S.
    After much discussion here and elsewhere, there is still no solid evidence that US has a negative impact on vinyl records, and – IIRC – someone who made that assertion originally recanted that. Trust your ears all you want but I don't. The detrimental affect is still just your own personal speculation. My experience is the opposite of yours.

    If you click on your screen name in thee forum menu and select Personal Details, you can add your gear there.
     
  13. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    That was Harry Weisfeld of VPI. In fact, despite the fact that he has manufactured brush LP cleaners for decades, he thinks that ultrasonic cleaners do a better job of cleaning.
     
    Spence likes this.
  14. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    You are talking in theoretical terms. Many companies have done scientific studies regarding the effect of ultrasonic cleaning on vinyl and determined that it causes no damage. The studies are out there if you care to search for them.
     
  15. Spence

    Spence New Member

    Location:
    UK
    I’ve done a lot of research on this already as it really interests me (and vinyl is a hobby) but I haven’t seen anything conclusive yet. I’m not saying it’s not out there, just that I haven’t seen it yet. I’ll keep looking, and that’s one of the reasons I’m here on this thread. It’s supposed to be a forum for free expression of informed opinion and thought isn’t it? I consider my cleaning of 250+ records with US gives me the grounds to voice an informed opinion. But I know I don’t have the definitive answer.
    My mind is still open. I have seen great benefits in the US cleaning process, as I’ve said above. It’s just that I don’t want to simply accept that an ultrasonic clean is recommended for every brand new record. A while ago I asked one of the suppliers of the kit for US cleaning about this and they said they didn’t recommend cleaning brand new records. (I have the email somewhere).
    The main thing is we don’t shut down the debate. No doubt there are also vested interests behind some opinions and we need to be sensitive to that as well.
    I’m going to keep my own experimentation going, and will continue to be keen to hear the opinions of others.
     
  16. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Just for clarity, people aren’t saying that ultrasonic is recommended for every new record. People are saying cleaning is recommended for every new record.
     
    psulioninks and Bobsblkwax like this.
  17. SCM

    SCM Senior Member

    Location:
    Fl
    I`ve cleaned many Lp`s at 45C sometimes a tic higher with no issues at all.

    I clean at a rotating speed of 1 revolution every 10 minutes, 3 rotations per 30 minute cleaning cycle @ 40-46 C
     
  18. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    I am glad it is working out for you. I can just tell you what I have read. Most companies set the max to 35. But, if you use 40-45 and it is working, great.
     
  19. SCM

    SCM Senior Member

    Location:
    Fl
    I`ve noticed that too, not sure why, maybe they want to play it safe.
    But rest assured, 40c is well within the safe zone.
     
    dminches likes this.
  20. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    there is no such thing as mold release agent, at least nothing that can be washed off, this has been settled already...
     
    Spence likes this.
  21. wbass

    wbass Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Quick question for the thread: I'm using the recommended 40ml of isopropyl alcohol in the tank of my Kirmuss RCM. Does one need to "top up" the alcohol every few days (because alcohol evaporates) or is it suspended in solution and thus potent for more than one cleaning session? Thanks!
     
  22. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    How often are you changing all the liquid?
     
    wbass likes this.
  23. wbass

    wbass Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Roughly every week or ten days or so. I'm aware of the chance of mold growing, but this seems like a reasonable compromise between clean solution and convenience.
     
  24. wbass

    wbass Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    At some point, I'm going to work in a filtration system. Mostly just curious about whether I should be adding more alcohol to the tank every few days. You can smell it clearly at first, then, by day two, the smell is pretty much gone.
     
  25. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Given the frequency at which you change your liquid I wouldn't bother. I would be surprised if it was evaporating that quickly. It wouldn't hurt to add a little but I don't think it will make a huge difference.
     
    wbass likes this.

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