ultrasonic is doing something weird to the high frequencies Yes it is, it is letting the stylus reach them all and exposing weaknesses in your system. Or are you saying that you like a KLA cleaned disc after it has been recleaned with the VPI? If so your cleaning solution maybe altering the sound. Otherwise you're saying the US machines permanently alter and ruin high frequencies? Definitely not my experience after going from a 16.5 to and AD 4.5 years ago.
I'm not hearing any degradation either. Even though I just got mine I've cleaned and played a variety of classical, jazz and other music. If the US cleaner was altering HF my system would have resolved that change (it hasn't), not to mention my dealer would have noticed it as well in the time they have been carrying and selling the AD, with all the 6-figure systems they play, demo and deploy. I did notice that on several albums cleaned, the HF improved, getting smoother and more extended. Why is that? Because the record is ultra clean where it wasn't before.
Exactly, I am assuming you are you some type of fineline sylus(shibata, MR etc) , that is a very small profile compared to the extremely common elliptical and spherical(denon) styli used in the 50's-80's, meaning it goes deeper in the groove where older styli were too wide to enter and the finest sh@t settles. If the US machine can deeply and effectively clean the record, the stylus will be traveling of fresh pavement so to speak, so maximum frequency response.
Yes, a Dynavector XV-1s. Stylus is PF Line contact shape, stylus radius: 7 x 30 micron Your analysis seems reasonable to me.
I know that it sounds crazy (and said so myself), but yes, I suspect, If I can trust my hearing, that ultrasonic creates some brittleness on the high frequencies. My system, which is very revealing, is listed in my profile. I have noticed this "phenomenon" with a variety of turntables, cartridges, phono stages, and speakers. I am glad also that no one else has noticed that. I might, at some point, go back to ultrasonic, and do more comparisons.
KlAudio for me Bought new last summer, after several in my listening group of friends had them and I could experience before and after examples over several years. One in particular was an early adopter and it was always a revelation at his house with a before and after listen. Reagent water not distilled, there is a difference in SQ with reagent water. (well, we hear it, you may not, which is cool with me). I do 3 cycles of 5 minute wash and then one cycle of 5 minute dry. Never experienced a degradation of SQ, just a revelation in clarity. None in my group have reported any degradation over a 6-7 year period. Or harshness. Or distortion. You will be into the groove more and only be touching clean vinyl, not crud and mold-release residue, so check your stylus, too. I've been working through all our hosts Blue Notes/PP/Cisco/SC/Capitol/RCA ect, and continue to sample a before and after with a few friends ever so often and continue to be impressed. (oh, my...... The Nat King Cole 45rpm examples!! Before? GREAT....after? STUPENDOUS ) I do 50-60 doubles and change the water. Maybe a little soon but my software is for the long term and no reason to cheap out at this point. New MOFI inner sleeves Sleeve City 5mm outer sleeve Scotch tape with "RCM" on outer for "Record Cleaning Machine" (clever, I know, but that's how I roll). Built like a tank, too.
LP's NOT FULLY DRIED: Thanks to Josquin des Prez for starting this thread here. I would like to take advantage of the collective to discuss the one negative item I have about my Audio Desk VCP. That is records that emerge from the VCP Not fully dried. From threads I have seen all over the internet, I know this is a common occurrence. I have become adept at lifting the LP straight up and out of the VCP, so my own ineptitude is not contributing to this issue. I have 4 questions I will ask and I will share my observations after the questions. 1) Do you have any thoughts on the cause of this? 2) Have you found a way to minimize the occurrences of this problem? 3) How do you deal with it when it happens? 4) Do you notice any after affects from areas that had waterspots? My Experience: 1) -I have noticed it seems to happen more with 180gm pressings and less with thinner disks. -It seems to happen more with warped records than flat ones. I wonder if the warped part of the record is brushing hard against the vinyl wipers at the rear of the record slot. This might serve to dislodging water which might have collected there. -It seems to happen more frequently the more records I clean. 2) -I sometimes take a microfiber cloth and run it between the white vinyl wipers to remove any excess water. I have no idea if it is helping because the problem often seems random. I can't say it helps, but I don't think it hurts. 3) - If it is one or two tiny drops, I will dab them with a clean microfiber cloth. -If the record is still really wet after cleaning, I will hold the button down for 6 buzzes to force the extended drying session. This often is not a complete success and I must still get the record fully dry. -For records with many small drops or some small little streams of water, I will let them air dry for 10 or 15 minutes. Where the record is statically inert, I don't fear a dust buildup. 4) -I honestly don't know myself. I have sometimes heard small bands of surface noise on records that I had to air dry or dab with the microfiber cloth. But I don't know if this is cause and effect or just a coincidence. I am really curious what other's experiences are.
1) Do you have any thoughts on the cause of this? My experience is that it occurred more often with thin records than the heavy ones. I thought one of the issues is that the rubber flaps didn't do as good a job with thin records. 2) Have you found a way to minimize the occurrences of this problem? I never did. 3) How do you deal with it when it happens? I always kept a micro fiber cloth near the AD and used that. Even though it did occur periodically I found they wiped dry easily. 4) Do you notice any after affects from areas that had waterspots? I never did.
I acquired my unit as an ex-demo from the dealer a few days ago. At first I my records were coming out with spots of water around the edge of the label on one side. I realized yesterday that one of the rollers was not fully seated. I pulled it out and reseated it. Now my records are all coming out dry. I'll keep an eye out and see if I encounter any drops left over from drying but I haven't with the last several records I've cleaned since I reseated the rollers. Make sure those are truly down all the way.
I do get the occasional splotch of water, perhaps the size of a quarter, always near the edge, always to the left of the wipers, and always on the side facing the controls of the machine. It has happened perhaps a half-dozen times. In each instance I wiped up the water with a microfiber brush after putting the record on the turntable. No ill effects were noted, sound-wise. My theory, as far as it goes, is that a small amount of water remains on one of the bottom plastic rollers, perhaps clinging to the spot where the vinyl meets the roller, and spills off on to the record from time to time. I do not know if this is the same sort of problem that others report.
On my AudioDesk, if the rubber/plastic squeegees are not facing slightly downwards, it opens the gates of hell. That is without a record in it.
Later versions of the single sheet instructions accompanying the Audio Desk Systeme Pro replacement white wiper blades indicate directionality of the blades. As Jntex mentioned in his post, examination of the wiper blades pre-insertion will clearly show a downward sweep of the blade profile. The blades need to be inserted into the RCM maintaining this downward profile to work most effectively. Additionally, overfilling the reservoir will cause water to collect on the underside edge of the wiper blades. When the drying cycle starts the air will blow this collected water toward the center hole of the record and will show as water spray on the record label.
This reminds me that when I had my AD I never fully filled the tank. I kept it slightly over the minimum and found that reduced the number of times that water was left on the LP.
Never really had issues with water on my AD....but wore flaps caused issues big time for me. Easy fix. This thread is reminding me to flush and add new solution sometime in the next couple weeks....
I had the wet records thing with my AD too. The wipers wear pretty quickly and I don't believe they have enough overlap to get thin and/or slightly warped records dry even when brand new. The price for the wipers is preposterous which is why I modified my AD to use any kind of wiper I want to including windshield wipers at a tenth of the price. No more wet records as I can adjust the gap!
I've cleaned 20 records since correcting a mis-seated barrel, and no records have emerged with even a single drop.
I've used an AD Pro for a few years and rely on it, in addition to my VPI HW-17 (which I use for pre-cleaning really dirty records) for cleaning all records, new and used. The AD Pro is essential to me in evaluating test pressings for Universal Music since I have to know exactly what the pressing sounds like and can't let myself get fooled by mold release and other gunk that can end up on brand new pressings. Recently I took delivery of a new AD Pro, with improved parts and new black wiper lips. It does the same job but does it more quietly and with an overall smoother operation. These things are pricey but whether you do it this way, or DIY, ultrasonic LP cleaning is essential if you have a really large collection of LPs and you want to hear what is really on them. IMO of course!
Remember that the AD actually takes more than a gallon of water .... I have to get out the owners manual but it's something like 1.3 or 1.3 gallons of distilled water.
It's 4.5 liters, which is 1.19 gallons. When I poured in the gallon I actually topped it off with a little more from a second. If the level is too low the unit displays a red lamp to indicate that, as I'm sure you know. I think I'm going to switch to reagent grade lab water. As a super dissolver I expect it should do an even better job. This cleaner has been a game changer for my classical and jazz collection, many of which are decades to over a half century old. But it's been a revelation for newer records too, like all my MMJ, AP, Speakers Corner, etc albums of which I have quite a few (hundreds).
I’m an Audio Desk Pro guy who does an AI Ultra Pure rinse on VPI 16.5. The cleanest, quietest vinyl I’ve ever encountered.
