The Van Morrison cd thread

And before we "officially" move on to the more problematic titles, let me throw out these "channel markers" for the first 3 discs. I chose one track from each lp side because I recall in the Genesis thread they found some presings that had the channels reversed on only one side.

Astral Weeks
"Astral Weeks" --the shaker is on the left
"Young Lovers"--the drummer's metals are on the left

Moondance
"And It Stoned Me"--horns on the right
"Come Running"--piano on the left

Street Choir
"Domino"--guitar on the left
"Gypsy Queen"--guitar on the left

Anyone who finds a variation, let's hear about it.

And we still need confirmation that the Canadian WBs match the others.

And if someone has an RE-1 Moondance or otherwise knows anything definitive about a secret remaster of that one, we'd love to hear about it

 

Shipping's not too bad - I've been buying from CDUni for over 10 years (mainly stinking remasters that now need replacing!). I'm watching a copy of Common One on eBay at the moment that I've confirmed is a US Warner Bros. If I miss out on that I'll just get it from CDUni.

I hate to hijack this thread further for my own purposes, but I just discovered one other gap I need to fill - Irish Heartbeat. Is this in the same boat as Common One - any US pressing is unremastered, while there's a premaster and remaster in the rest of the world? I'll shut up and let the thread get back on track after this, promise

 

Irish Hearbeat was part of the worldwide Polydor remasters series. It falls into the group I mentioned in my intro that was initially issued on Mercury/Polygram for the U.S. and likely has W. German Atomic, U.S. Atomic and U.S. non-Atomic versions for the U.S. market (I'm pretty sure I have seen all of those variations). Not sure about how it was originally issued in Europe, either Mercury or Polydor, prior to the remaster. Currently OOP worldwide, of course.

 

BTW, in case any of you guys missed the discussion awhile back, it appears all cd versions of Moondance contain an incorrect mix of "Into The Mystic". It came up when our gracious host was working on his vinyl reissue. . .

 

Thanks Craig, I have WG for USA and US Atomics of his other Mercury titles, so I know what I'm looking for now.

Getting back on track, my US Astral Weeks and Moondance, plus my new German His Band all match your channel markers. Are we ready for the next three yet, or still waiting for Canada to report in?

 

Well, I am not getting quite as much feedback as I had hoped so far
I don't want to let the thread slide to far down the board while waiting for others to chime in, so consider this a visibility bump.

And I guess I'll move on to Tupelo Honey and St. Dominic's Preview this evening. Things should get more interesting as the U.S. and European masterings are clearly different for the rest of the 70's albums. I'm intrigued by Mal's preliminary report on St. Dominic's. I hope we can drum up enough people who have heard multiple pressings of these discs. The European pressings are very difficult to come by in the U.S. (and I assume the opposite is true in Europe). Heck, they are expensive to acquire even in our very own marketplace.

 

Ok, moving along for now. . .

Tupelo Honey
U.S. Warner Bros. 1950-2
(matrix: 1 1950-2 SRC-11)
76.7
94
79.8
75.8
100
96.9
82.6
80.1
90.8

Channel markers:
"Wild Night" - guitar left
"When That Evening Sun Goes Down" - piano right

German Polydor
(matrix: 834 328-2 02)
91
97.7
94.1
84.6
97.6
97.9
92.8
89.4
95.1

St. Dominic's Preview
U.S. Warner Bros. W2-2633 (a Columbia House pressing)
(matrix: 1 2633-2 SRC*07 M1S4)

67
87.5
71.5
64.3
79
75.3
67.5

Channel Markers:
"Gypsy" - horns left
"Redwood Tree" - horns left

German Polydor
(matrix: 834 326-2 02 *)

83.9
99.5
89.1
88.3
83
73.4
76.4

Note: I haven't actually heard the German discs. I got these numbers from a fellow forum member. Further note: A Van discography I have seen lists the Polydor catalog numbers for Tupelo Honey as 839 161-2 and St. Dominic's as 839 162-2 which do not seem to go with the matrix number above. I'm wondering if these discs were issued more than once for Europe before the remasters?

 

I'm going to try to climb onboard this weekend when I get some time. I haven't forgotten.

 

The WG and US CD of Astral Weeks is not the same sonically

 

Can you elaborate on the differences? Do you have a preference?

I'm employing EAC as a general guide only since it seems to be as close to a standard as we have around here. I assume differences in EQ or application of NR (possibly other things) would not be reflected in EAC peak levels. And then there is the issue of pressing plant differences. At any rate the ultimate test is in the listening and I'm hoping to get as many comments from people who have actually heard different versions as possible.

BTW, I've also heard there is an Australian pressing that may be worth seeking out. If anyone has any information on that, please share. . .

 

This has probably been covered plenty of times here, but I would have thought different EQ or NR implied a totally different mastering, in which case it would be virtually impossible for peak levels to be identical. Even if the same mastering was later run through NR or had EQ modified digitally, I would have thought this would result in different peak levels, even if only slightly.

Would comparison of file sizes of WAV's ripped from EAC be more informative than peak levels?

 

These are good questions. I would think you could tinker slightly with EQ or NR of the same digital transfer without necessarily impacting peak levels, but I really don't know. It does seem to be forum convention to assume identical EAC peaks means identical mastering, but I don't know that you can know for sure unless you conduct a frequency analysis, attempt to invert waves and see if they cancel out, etc. (all beyond my technical abilities and level of analness , but if someone else has the time and inclination go for it )

I have to believe the ultimate proof is in the listening, so the observations from people like Randy or Mal who have heard more than one version are at least as important as EAC levels.

 

Confirmation of the German Tupelo Honey peaks. I don't have St Dominic on CD, but my German Tupelo indeed has 839 161-2 on both insert and disc with a 834 325 matrix.

 

Thanks, Eddie. I guess I don't understand how Polydor was doing their matrix numbers for these releases. It seems unusual for the matrix number to have no resemblence to the catalog number. . .

 

I remember seeing some posts a year or two ago indicating that there had been a silent remaster (RE-1) of Moondance. Is this true? If so, has anyone done a careful comparison of the two versions?

 

Hi. I bought the Australian Astral Weeks (#246024) and Street Choir (759927 1882).
Peak levels match yours exactly. Channel markers: the same as well...
Looks like there is one and only one masterings of those...

 

Coming in here late (again) I'd like to second the suggestion of getting Van's Common One Cd, OOP, but still around. I got mine new at Borders last month, after finally playing the Lp. It is a great album, and a very good Cd. I also really liked the straight WB Cd of Into The Music. Two great Van albums, back to back, and both easily available for 10-15 bucks, worldwide?

Don't hesitiate, get them while you can...

cheers,


PS: My Astral Weeks Cd is part of a three pack of Van cds in a cardboard box, which also including Moondance and Street Choir. The jewel case on AW is clear and states "Original Masters" inside the left side spine, on the front. Is this any different than the standard Cd issue, stiil around?

 

I did get hold of the Warner Common One (actually still in print in the US) and I was blown away by both the music and the sonics. I have now completed my 1969-1999 Van collection, although I want to replace remasters of Veedon Fleece and It's Too Late To Stop Now with Warner first pressings - haven't tracked them down yet.

I think those WB first pressings sound great - the only one I'm a bit disappointed with is Beautiful Vision. On this CD the drummers metals really stick prominently out of the mix and are quite distracting on a few songs. Apparently the vinyl was like that too though. Perhaps it's just the way the album was originally mixed. A pity really because it's a wonderful album.

 

How does your Astral Weeks compare to this needledrop I did:

Astral Weeks needledrop

The vinyl seems better than my CD, but yours may be different of course (or you might disagree).

Tim

 

Thanks for that sample - gee it's such a loooong time since I heard this album on vinyl It's a nice sounding needledrop. It definitely sounds fuller than the CD. It has a more forward presentation, a bit like the effect you get from the compression used in modern mastering. The Warner Astral Weeks CD is often criticised as being thin-sounding though, and while I would agree with this to a certain extent, the needledrop doesn't make me throw my hands up in horror and make me want to upgrade my cheapie turntable and get back into vinyl in a big way...

Having said that there's no doubt this CD plus a few other WB Van's could benefit from proper remastering. Mind you, I have compared several WB and Polydor first pressings of Van's CDs with the '97 Polydor remasters, and the remasters don't really sound fuller - they're just a tad louder and a lot brighter. One would assume the master tapes were used for those remasters too.

It also helps to do your needledrops with the caliber of turntable you have - I assume the Roksan was used for this sample?

 

Correct. I've now fixed the channels, which my soundcard is inclined to swap for some reason.

I agree that the CD is not really annoying. There's also the nostalgia factor. I remember Astral Weeks as having a stark, raw quality that is in the vinyl but less so in the CD.

Thanks for the comments.

Tim

 

Yeah I was going to mention the reversed channels.

Raw is an apt description of the needledrop. The CD sounds cleaner and more clinical in comparison, but you could say that about pretty much any vinyl vs CD shootout ;-)

 

Now that this thread is revived, let's see if I can't coax Craig back into continuing with the project...we've managed to get details of first pressings on both Warner and Polydor up to Saint Dominic's Preview. Next would be Hard Nose The Highway and It's Too Late To Stop Now. Craig do you have both of these on Warner? I've got the Polydor Hard Nose so if somebody has the Polydor It's Too Late we're in business.

 

I have the Polydor Too Late.

TIm

 

Yeah, I've got WBs for those two. I guess we'll trudge along, eh? I'll try to post some data in the next couple of days.

In the meantime, a quote from Roland (whose ears I respect) re Tupelo Honey:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=145457&highlight=morrison