"Them" featuring Van Morrison

I believe what happened was the 49-track set was first issued in the UK and corrections [most notably the annotations on the back inlay] were made for the US version. I have assumed, though, that they allowed the earlier 49-track set to quietly go OOP. As there were two songs [US version of "Little Girl" and released version of "Call My Name"] that didn't appear on the earlier set, there'd be no reason to keep it in print.

 

Hey, I'm so waaay cool. I saw Them at the Whiskey A-Go Go in L.A. in 1966. The band members [well, some at least!] pretty much looked like the guys on the Them Again LP cover. Meaning they were indeed a group. The "live" pictures of the group included in the skimpy booklet in the 2-CD set were shot at that Whiskey gig. Look for me with a geeky Ivy League haircut .

 

Ron, I think what Mud said is correct.

The UK version is still the only one available in the UK and here in Australia.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay, gang, you asked for it....

Totally agreed.

You're right; thanks for the correction. When I made my content notations this morning, I forgot to mention that, mainly because I don't think I've ever played Disc 2 through without hitting the *next* button. Fortunately, the correct(and vastly superior) Lp version was on the original THEM AGAIN CD[Deram 820 564-2; 1989]and of course the US Lp of the same title.

You know, I never could stand John Tracy's ridiculous way of writing liner notes. I've been accused of being verbose and wordy, but this guy makes me positively pithy in comparison....but he supervised the remasterings of some very decent reissues by the Moodies, Marianne Faithfull, Marmalade, and others in the Decca UK catalog. In fact, this original Deram pressing of THEM AGAIN remains imperfect--the sound of this band always will--but is does seem honest, which is better than the Astley Alternative.

ED

 

Well, that being the case, that's a real drag. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised--so much was screwy about this release that keeping in print a version with obvious errors seems par for the course.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Okay, gang, you asked for it....

LOL. Right. I just pulled out my original Deram CD. Those liner notes are a hoot: "As for Them, the plucky Henderson recruited Ken McDowell . . ." The "plucky" Henderson? Aargh.

BTW, I also agree regarding the sound on the original Deram "Them Again" CD--while a little grainy in places [but IIRC so's the LP], it IS much more honest/preferable to the remastered version. It's not maxed AT ALL and makes for a much better listen. Not to mention no swimmy phony stereo tracks.

Joe, if you're still reading, can you give us some specifics re: the new single disc remasters of AYT and TA with respect to maxed sonics and all mono? Appreciated.

 

There is only ONE Call My Name on the UK Astley. It's the single version and it's repeated in error.

So far as I am aware there is no "unreleased/alternative" version of Call My Name despite what the track annotations say. Just the single version and the Them Again version.

This is from the Van Morrison website:

Review from Simon Gee (from Wavelength 13): "Near definitive, but fatally flawed"
Set for release on October 20th, 1997 is The Story of Them featuring Van Morrison, a 2CD set from Deram on catalogue number 8448132. Containing all the THEM recordings except two, there are 49 tracks on the set in total.

THEM recorded 45 titles, and with four of these tracks re-recorded as Alternate Takes, there is a total of 49 tracks available (or 51 if we allow the disputed Alternate Versions included here). Here we have 49 tracks, missing off "Mighty Like A Rose" which was called a 'demo' by Van, and so, he felt, not suitable for re-issue, and the Alternate "Little Girl".

What do we think of the compilation? It should be pretty easy you would have thought - but there is the minefield of Alternate Versions and Outtakes, and Decca have slipped up badly here, making the set fatally flawed. The remasterer and compiler, Jon Astley, makes a point in his short note about the stereo mixes versus the mono, and this seems to be the main thrust of his activity - it's such a great pity he did not spend more time on the actual music! He says that the tracks "Times Gettin' Tougher", "Stormy Monday", and "Friday's Child" 'only seem to exist in Electronic Stereo' - of course they do - they were early demos, and are three of the six 'other' tracks released after the demise of the band. If we accept the fact that there are no longer the Decca recording logs from '65 and '66 in existence, and that there appear to be tape masters in both the States and the UK, it would seem that there was no overall view of the Alternate Versions, and so they have just not been presented accurately on this set.

As I explain in "You Can't Judge A Book By It's Cover" elsewhere in issue 13 of Wavelength, there are only 4 actual Alternates altogether. By Alternate we mean a totally separate recording - a different take with a new backing and with Van, always unable to sing the same thing the same way twice, varying his vocals considerably. The 4 are "Bring 'Em On In", "Call My Name", "Little Girl", and "Richard Cory". The first and last are correctly presented on this set,but the compilers have used the 45 single take of "Call My Name" twice in error, and so not used the version from Them Again at all.

Then we have the Little Girl problem. The compilers were obviously unaware that Little Girl is an Alternate, even though hinted at in Johnny Rogan, and known about amongst collectors for many years. So, as I mention later on in issue 13 of Wavelength when referring to the original source of the track, the 14 LP [called England's Greatest Hitmakers in the US], Version One with the edited ending has been used by Decca inadvertently for many years and is included here. If the original 14 tape doesn't exist, then surely they could dub off a mint LP and digitally clean it up to get Version One, and then Version Two could be similarly copied from a mint Them LP, if the tapes for the original vinyl no longer exist in the vaults.

What of the other two Alternate Versions included here? Well, both are exactly the same take, and so do not really qualify for such an elevated status. "I'm Gonna Dress In Black", has a 5 second longer fadeout on Version 2 and, similarly, "One More Time" is an Alternate only by virtue of it being released in true stereo in the States, and mono here. "I'm Gonna Dress" is incorrectly labelled as previously unreleased, but it is the longer version as included on many European compilations.

So quibbles aside, the packaging, photos and memorabilia are excellent. Each version of THEM is given a photo (except the very first which never recorded), and the band members are identified - a superb idea for those of us who have always wondered who was what. Now perhaps some collector out there will tell me that the names are wrong! Like the Remasters discussed above the sound is as fresh and upfront as we are ever going to get for these recordings, so any THEM fan will need this set (particularly as this the only THEM material available until next year). Recommended, with reservations.

Notes from 20 December 1997 issue of ICE, via Carlo in Berkeley:
PolyGram Chronicles has January 13 slated for the double CD The Story of THEM Featuring Van Morrison. The comprehensive set has already been released overseas and features newly remastered sound, including "Gloria" in stunning stereo. But the British set had a couple of minor errors which the Chronicles release will correct. The original album versions of "Little Girl," "I Gave My Love a Diamond" and "Call My Name" have been inserted where the British set had alternate takes/mixes of those songs. The American set still has plenty of rarities, however, and will clearly mark alternate takes and mixes where they appear (which the British set didn't). Still, completists may want to seek out the import for at least one reason: the alternate version of "I Gave My Love a Diamond" won't be present on the Chronicles release.


(this last quote from Ice is incorrect in its reference to Call My Name as an alternative take/mix on the UK version. The US version simply corrects the double appearance of the single version on the UK set)

 

Peter, good find!

mud-

 

Hi Guys,
I think you can't go wrong with the remastered titles. Ron, both AYT & TA are mono. As for being maxed out, they do sound a little loud but not overly done. I extracted a couple tracks on both disc's and brought it up in Cool Edit 2000 and there is no buzz cuts on them. So it could be worst. Actually I played the disc's next to Astley's and they did not sound louder than his. Again, I would recommend the two single CD's over the Astley's. Hope this helps. And I thought the Who catalog was crazy, this is nuts!

 

You learn something new every day. What I referred to as either the "UK version" or "no doubt unreleased version" of CMN turns out to be the UK single version. Thanks for that heads up and the Wavelength review. Whereas I agree with the reviewer that the set is fatally flawed, the reasons he gives to support that claim are inadequate. He makes no mention of either the maxed/compressed sonics or of such essential songs appearing in electronic stereo with appalling sound [all of which were in true mono in the earlier Deram "Them Again" CD]: "Turn On Your Lovelight," "My Lonely Sad Eyes" "and I Can Only Give You Everything."

 

Thanks for checking, Joe. I'm happy with the earlier Deram TA so I don't think I'll be replacing that disc. But as I foolishly gave my AYT away to my nephew after I got the Astley set, I'll pick up that remaster.

 

here's the CD's

 

Now, here are the CD's