“These Dreams”/“Never” by Heart

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by PsychedelicWheelz, May 15, 2020.

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  1. PsychedelicWheelz

    PsychedelicWheelz Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I know this was a major shift in direction for the band, but I think these are two of their best singles and rank among the best pop singles of the 1980s. I even enjoy the videos for these albums, dated though they are (or maybe for that very reason).

    “These Dreams” is one of the most genuinely ethereal pop songs I’ve ever heard. Nancy’s vocals are sublime, and Taupin wrote a great set of abstract imagery that fits the melody perfectly. It’s pop, yes, but pop of the highest order. Rivals Madonna’s “Live To Tell” as far as 80s pop ballads are concerned.

    ‘Never” is incredibly catchy - those hooks are off-the-charts good, and Ann rips through it with passion. They have been conflicted about the creative shift, but they fully committed to it (which is why they worked). Nancy’s vocal asides on the track (“Neverrr!!”) are great, too.

    Back to the videos: has there ever been a happier rock star than Nancy Wilson?
     
  2. Monosterio

    Monosterio Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Florida
    I didn’t remember “Never” by the title so I had to look it up. I prefer the earlier Heart, but these were good.
     
  3. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I liked Alone most of all.
     
  4. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    I don't mind these singles, but they're not really "Heart," are they? All these outside songs could've been recorded by post-Cetera Chicago, Starship, Lap Of Luxury-era Cheap Trick...anyone. And been hits. Ann Wilson is one of the best voices of all time, but "Alone" is maybe the only one where I'm not sure it would've been as successful with a different singer (although Robin Zander might've come close).

    Hell, "These Dreams" was originally meant for Stevie Nicks, and I'm sure it would've been an equally huge hit for her. I have a soft spot for a good power ballad, but it's weird to me how interchangeable they are between acts.
     
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  5. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Never is actually my 4th favorite of the hits from that record, but it's still a good tune. These Dreams, Nothing at All and What About Love are all killer pop rock tunes.
     
  6. carlwm

    carlwm Forum Resident

    Location:
    wales
    Three sides to Heart for me: AOR, acoustic and (for want of a better description) Zep-like. Love the first two, the third, not so much which means that all the albums outside of the Private Audition - Brigade window have songs on them I really don't like (plenty of stuff that is to my taste too, I might add!). However, the albums within the window tend - according to my tastes - to be excellent from start to finish so I very much like the songs you mention.

    I would like to hear Ann's lead vocals on These Dreams though, for comparison if nothing else. Nancy can hold a tune but Ann is a force of nature.
     
  7. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Yeah, I just struggle with bands that I know are totally capable of writing great stuff giving up and putting out entire albums of what are basically covers ("What About Love" was almost a note-for-note remake) and passing them off as their own. Not Heart's fault, they were pushed into a corner after a few weak records by their new label, but I always feel like those albums kind of come with an asterisk. And the thing is...there's almost nothing on the self-titled, Bad Animals, or Brigade I could really recommend beyond the singles, whereas their first few records are really great start to finish. Just a weird time...I wish they'd allowed the Wilson sisters to be more involved in the songwriting during their AOR era, otherwise it's not really "Heart", is it?
     
  8. carlwm

    carlwm Forum Resident

    Location:
    wales
    I get your point, and it's a good one but, for me, I don't desperately mind where the songs come from as long as they are strong and there's enough of the band's personality there. The self-titled album was definitely a change in direction but I thought it still sounded like Heart. Personally I was glad to see the back of the tedious blues rock wig outs that blight their early albums ( I don't like Led Zep style rock even when it's done by Led Zep) although, in fairness, the band had been easing them out since Bebe Le Strange.

    As an aside, I agree that Heart didn't do much with What About Love but it was the version I heard first and until I picked up Toronto's Greatest Hits about fifteen years ago, I had nothing to compare it to.
     
  9. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Yeah, I guess I just don't hear a lot of personality from the band in those albums, at all. Then again, all of Ron Nevison's 80's productions are like that...you could take a backing track from Heart and put it on Crazy Nights or Europe's Out Of This World and no one would blink.
     
  10. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    I was just happy to see the band having renewed success and the songs were decent enough to pass muster. Then again, I really liked This Man Is Mine, too and I'm guessing many Heart fans don't share that opinion.
     
  11. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    I very much liked the self titled album, although I do see it as somewhat transitional between hard rockin' Heart and the total sellout shlock that would follow with Bad Animals and Brigade.
     
  12. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    That relaunched Heart cd is a glorious guilty pleasure!
     
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  13. The Slipperman

    The Slipperman Forum Resident

    Anyone know why the LP and CD of the self-title were so different? Never among others had some serious edits and changes. I prefer the LP but maybe because that's the first version I heard.
     
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  14. Queezma

    Queezma Forum Resident

    I had no idea they were different. I only have the CD. Are they just edited? Or are some songs different mixes?
     
  15. Duol

    Duol Hopeless Throwback

    Location:
    London
    This.

    Whilst it’s certainly not great from an artist perspective that all the record industry money that was sloshing around in the 80s has long since gone, from a fan perspective it’s probably for the best.

    Why? Because (at least with rock acts) you don’t get any more of this “let’s hire the songwriter of the month” just to chase the cash. Because there is no one idea of what a radio hit sounds like any more.

    To be fair, I actually like both the key 80s Heart songdoctor albums, but I’d rather a band stand or fall on its own merits (Aerosmith are also terrible for generic song-doctored stuff in their later years).
     
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  16. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    I think the first press uk cd had a different mix of Never.
     
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  17. nosticker

    nosticker Forum Guy

    Location:
    Ringwood, NJ
    Early issues of Heart on various formats had the mix of "Never" that has a different vocal in several places. "Nothin' At All" may have been remixed, too.


    Dan
     
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  18. Lynd8

    Lynd8 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    The hired gun songwriting was kind of lame and then add the 80s machine drums etc... not my cup of tea.
     
  19. BackWhereItAllBegins

    BackWhereItAllBegins Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Same here. And I really like how It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia uses this tune on the show.
     
  20. *Zod*

    *Zod* Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    One of my absolute period favorites along with Take These Broken Wings and Waiting for A Girl Like You. There's a couple more on that top shelf....Love Is A Battlefield is one.
     
  21. rfkavanagh

    rfkavanagh Unashamedly Pop!

    Location:
    New York
    Three songs were remixed and issued in different combinations on the CD, and it's really difficult to tell them apart because they all have the same catalogue number - you have to go by where the discs were manufactured. Let me dig out the differences...
     
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  22. rfkavanagh

    rfkavanagh Unashamedly Pop!

    Location:
    New York
    Here's the info I put together on the three tracks that were remixed (revised slightly from this thread: Heart - 1985 S/t CD ):

    The CD manufactured at EMI Swindon has the remixes of all three songs, and the Nimbus CD has the original mixes. I think there are other versions of the CD that may have one or two of the remixes but not all three. Don't know anything about the vinyl.

    There are many very subtle changes but some are so subtle that it can even be difficult to tell if it's truly a different mix or just a slight difference in mastering. For anyone who was as confused as I was, here's the quickest and easiest way I found to identify the different versions of each song, using what to me were the first, most prominent changes. This isn't a list of differences; just the simplest way to tell the versions apart (at least for me):

    - If Looks Could Kill: go to ~1:06 - the original mix has a squealing guitar lick that's missing from the remix version.

    - Never: at ~0:03, Ann has a "oooo-hooooo..." ad lib in the remix version that's missing from the original. And as mentioned much earlier in the thread, the first line is a different vocal take, most noticeable in the "Hey baby, I'm TALKIN' to you" bit.

    - Nothin' At All: at ~0:08, Ann has another "oh-oh-oh-oh-oh" ad lib in the remix version that's missing from the original. And again the first line is a different vocal take, most noticeable in the "I would walk home EVERY EVENIN'" bit.
     
  23. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    These Dreams is sung by Nancy. Not too shabby. Alone is another favorite of mine from this period.
     
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  24. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    That “Perfume on my wrist” line makes me fall in love with Nancy even more everytime I hear it.
     
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  25. carlwm

    carlwm Forum Resident

    Location:
    wales
    I would love to hear These Dreams and every other song with lead vocals by Nancy sung by Ann. Nancy can hold a tune but Ann is one of the greatest singers in rock. It's a bit like picking a club cyclist ahead of Eddie Merckx for the Tour de France. She offers nothing different, just the same only less so.

    Just my opinion, obviously.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
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