This Week's Top 10 Chart

Totally disagree. YYY was a classic in the genre--and hysterical to boot.

 

Got it.
But Mr Moonlight IS garbage!

just kidding!

 

No joke. No irony. I honest to God don't see the difference. Saying "This song is garbage" is verboten but saying "In my opinion, this song is garbage" is OK? Truth be known, I never went to Charm School. Never felt the need . . . maybe 'till now, anyways.

 

Saying a song is garbage means you are stating a fact. But someone might like that song, so to him/her it's not garbage, so can it be a fact? If you say "I think this song is garbage", it becomes an opinion.

 

Sorry, but I disagree. Were I to say "This song is garbage," it could be taken in no way other than as my opinion. How could that statement possibly be construed as fact? Saying "That song is garbage" is simply another way of saying "It sucks" or "I hate it"--both of which are one's opinion, BTW.

 

I have a brain tumor now!

 

Indeed it was. That's my problem - bubblegum music!

Regards,
Geoff

 

Not a style I'm particularly in love with, but YYY always makes me smile.

 

Which no doubt explains the difficulty you're having understanding my point .

 

no, my hemorrhoids are are causing that!

 

If by that comment you are suggesting that I am a pain in the ass, then . . . well . . . ah ****. You'd be right [IMO].

 

no, I WISH I was joking!


ok, enuff, we're gonna get gorted!

 

But your point is incorrect.

1) I think that song is garbage.
2) That song is garbage.
3) It is a fact that the song is garbage.

1 != 2
2 == 3

Making a statement without the "I think" *is* stating it as fact. That's how the English language works. Now it's true that in casual conversation that you can usually get away with ignoring the above. But Ed wasn't being casual. He was on the attack - he was working hard to *prove* that Dizzy sucked. This is the problem.

And you know, even I took offense. I like the song, and Ed is calling it crap, which directly implies my taste is crap.

"it's just plain generic and bad", "Dizzy" belongs on the trash heap of pop history--[it] just sucks"

Ed, my personal non-gort opinion is, you should just say "I don't like that song" and move on. Trying to prove that it sucks is not going to win you friends, my friend.

jeff

 

Ok, now that we've moved on, what was #1 in the UK that week? I remember the lively (IMO) discussion regarding Stand By Your Man.

 

As regards statements that cannot be proven as fact, making a statement such as "That song is garbage" can *only* be taken as opinion. That, IMO, is how the English language works .

Ed certainly doesn't need any defending from me, but my read on his comment wasn't that he was trying to *prove* that the song sucked, but rather was trying *explain why* he felt that way--which in a discussion forum is both necessary and appropriate.

 

Hey Ron, The adoption of [IMO] in your current postings is very enlightening. Looks like your going with the FLO...

 

Oh sure. Mama didn't raise no fool .

 

We'll have to agree to disagree, I suppose.

But, as Steve so eloquently wrote above - he feels it's a Good Thing™ to preface controversial/incendiary statements that might be taken as offensive if asserted as fact (whether on purpose or accident) with "In My Opinion".

And you know... it's his site...

jeff

 

Oh hey, I've got no problem with that as policy.

 

I'm not saying it should be policy. Rather, I'd hope that we all have enough respect for the man who's name is up top there to listen when he shows concern about something like this.

 

ENOUGH? Please....


I hadn't the slightest notion a simple(so I thought)neg rating on "2525" would go this far....easily a new high for posts for one of Dave's Top Ten Chart threads....but not the way most of us would have wanted it.


First of all.....while it might have seemed like attacking someone's love for a certain record, that is not and NEVER WILL BE my intent. Like an umpire, I call 'em as I see ' em. I may well be wrong, but I never meant to provoke any kind of big debate or what this thread has become....which is far beyond what any of us could have anticipated(IMO---note, Steve ). But being ED, I always assumed everyone here knew, after 8700+ posts, they knew I'd have one...

Thing is, I always assumed people knew anything I said about music in this context was meant to be one man's opinions--mine--culled over 30 years of experience of listening and collecting--nothing more, and nothing less.

There are those who think perhaps I went too far, or maybe not far enough. For the former, I can only say this:

If you love something--anything, or anybody--and you believe in it, 100%, say it 100%, within the rules. Maybe this time, I pushed it, but I will stand by my original rating: "2525" is a D+, in context with the other nine records on that chart on that week. Funny, though, that nobody bitched about the positive ratings, only the one negative one I pointed out that just happened to sell a million copies. But so did "Honky Tonk Women"....


For the latter, I try to be fair and temperate, but I have a lot of vinyl and a lot of music behind me, and I tend to be very passionate about what I love--music, women, food, what have you. I can't be anything else. I'm 48. It's too late to give a damn about anyone being offended because I don't like a few pieces of vinyl. I never meant to hurt feelings here. But if you can't take the heat, why are you in this Top Ten kitchen? We know what it is going in, and it's one of the most fun things this board has going for it.

But I do apologize to all(and to Dave, most of all) who may have been offended by my honesty. Yet it doesn't change the fact that, if next week, a great chart with some dubious songs(IMO)should come up again, that I won't speak my piece.

Best to all and my friendship,

ED

 

The solution seems simple.........

 

That was cool ED. Basically I think if we were all out having a few burgers or what ever brews and some of these topic's came up. It's a lot easy to hear a person speaking about their opinions and seeing there face and not what one is thinking when they are just reading these typed in words.

Sometimes we all just forget and just start typing as if we were just all sitting around talking. At which case none of us would take any offense except probably all laughing and having a good time together.

So I think you've given us all fair warning that next week you will voice you own opinion as the "You call em as you see em" !!! Just one word to the wise my friend that someone who didn't read this thread might still take offense to what you still might say.

Therefore I'd go with the IMO and we'd all get the jist one way or the other bad or good. Just be ED Mr COOL

 

Rontokyo,

I'm afraid that sometimes one does have to qualify a statement as an opinion because it is not always implied as such. Not everyone can know a writer's intent, nor should anyone assume knowledge of intent. Many times, I have gotten into trouble when I assumed that everyone understood my words. I have been reminded by the gorts on occasion that that was not always the case. Sometimes I have to remind myself that I am talking to people that don't know me.


All of us are experts and none of us are experts when it comes to calling the validity of any music. There is no bad music, and no music is garbage.

 

Not true. There is *plenty* of bad music. But you or anyone else would certainly be welcome to challange me should I list specific songs because, after all, I would merely be giving my opinion.