Those that returned to SS after owning tubes/valves, why the return?

I can definitely respect why some folks have moved back to SS, as it depends on his/her situation and equipment. For me though, being new to tubes (first tube amps ~2017?) I am still smitten by their texture, detail and timbre vs SS (of about the same price range). Tubes are very fun for me too, as one can spice up their sound / lightly tailor it to their liking with tube rolling. I suppose I've also been lucky, as my Rogue equipment has given me zero problems for reliability. I'm not terribly concerned about the tube heat in this part of CA, and admittedly, I could care more about utlity bills. My recent Zestos Andros II tube phono is marvelous, and I couldn't be happier with its performance. I just don't see myself returning to SS anytime soon, as my tube journey has only just begun.

 

So many generalizations.

I've had multiple tube and SS amps over the years, but since I bought my first Audio Research tube amp I have found them to be far less "niche-y" than many tube designs and generally overcome most if not all of the tube amp foibles. Great sound, excellent bass, no negatives, period. Currently running an ARC Ref75SE in my 2ch system and it works really well.

My LR 2 ch system is running a Krell 402e that shines and makes awesome sound as well. I really can't find fault with either. The Krell does make more heat tho

 

As long as this guy sound good in it.. Either way..
People Now.. "Scattamoousch...."

 

Primaluna Adaptive Auto Bias


ADAPTIVE AUTOBIAS
What most companies call Auto Bias is actually "Cathode Bias"- A commonly used method that is cheap to make, and often found in guitar amps, but also $20,000 high end audio amps. It reduces the available power of the amp and runs the tubes hard, meaning shorter tube life and failures via "shorts".

PrimaLuna's Adaptive AutoBias is a true, smart technology employing an array of sensors to monitor tubes and make adjustments seamlessly in real time. More important, it is the ONLY circuit of its kind that is truly "adaptive" by addressing "tube pinch off" at higher volumes, therefore reducing distortion by over 50% and greatly extending tube life. Adaptive AutoBias is completely passive and NOT in the signal path. The result is low to no maintenance, long tube life, and the lowest possible distortion for amazing sound.

Adaptive AutoBias also provides unparalleled flexibility by allowing use of almost any tube on the market today. It even has a fine-tuning switch for EL-34 and KT88/KT120/KT150 tube types.


POINT TO POINT WIRING W/ SWISS MADE WIRE
You spend a lot of money on interconnects. So why have the signal go right from the RCA jacks or speaker terminals into circuit boards with copper traces so thin you can hardly see them? What’s high-end about that?

PrimaLuna employs Point to Point Wiring on all products. The entire signal path, including resistors and capacitors, is painstakingly hand wired with heavy-gauge cable by craftsman.

EVO 300 and EVO 400 models use Swiss-made, silver-plated, oxygen-free continuous crystal (OCC) copper with a Teflon dielectric in the critical signal path for superior signal speed and increased clarity.



NO INTERNAL DAC / NO INTERNAL PHONOSTAGE
Never buy an integrated amp with an internal DAC. Why? Because digital changes, and history shows that integrated amps with “old” digital become unwanted and have almost no resale value.

Built in phonostages are “throw in” and are rarely good quality because manufacturers assume 90% of buyers won’t use them. The external phonostage market is very competitive. You can get something much better for as little as $200, and buy one that actually meets your cartridges needs and YOUR budget.



SMARTWATTS - EXTENDED TUBE LIFE
Tube life is simply a matter of how hard you run the tubes. That’s it. The only way to extend tube life is to run them as close to zero as you possible can, making sure it is not so low you go into crossover distortion. The life of a tube will depend on two things: Plate and screen voltage.

If the plate and screen voltage is high, you are more likely to get tube shorts when you turn the amp on and you get cathode stripping which greatly effects the cathodes ability to spit out electrons. Manufacturers that run the hell out of tubes to pump up their power ratings will never tell you what voltages they use. They’ll say it’s “proprietary” as if it’s some secret sauce. There is no such thing. But if they told you that they used 575, 600, or even 625 volts you probably wouldn’t buy. We proudly tell you our tubes run at just about 417 volts for the plates and screens.

PrimaLuna runs their output tubes at a minimum dissipation without going into crossover distortion. When you look at our amps, they provide less power from each tube. With KT-120’s as an example, a PrimaLuna will give you only 21 watts per tube. So running a pair of them you get 42 watts. That’s a lot of power, but the demands per tube are a fraction of some manufacturers that give you 100 watts from a pair of KT-120’s. It’s a cheap way to get big power, and it’s cheap. In fact, free. To get more power the right way is expensive. It requires bigger transformers, sockets, wiring, resistors, capacitors, and the tubes to do it. Which is exactly what PrimaLuna did. But we didn’t stop there.

Read this carefully: Power has nothing to do with sound quality. Or bass slam. You can buy a 200 watt receiver for $299, and it will even have surround sound. Do you think for a minute it will sound better than a 50 or 100 watts high end amp costing $10,000? Of course not. Only first-time buyers think that way. Experienced audiophiles know that for the majority of listening sessions, you use maybe 10 watts of power.



OUR AMPS ARE PERFECT. BUT YOUR SYSTEM MAY NOT BE
Ask any seasoned tube-head what the most musical output tube is and they will most certainly declare it the EL34. Other amp manufacturers would love to use it. Only PrimaLuna, through our proprietary output transformer designs, can give you EL34 midrange beauty with top-end air that goes on forever. And, bass extension with so much slam, our amps are used to power subwoofers.

However, every system is different. What if you bought a speaker with bass that overloads the room? Or, that is too dark? Or, too bright? What if you just want to have fun trying the different colors of sound from a vast pallet of tubes? With other manufacturers' products, you're stuck. They're a one-trick pony. How are you going to fine-tune your sound? Buy some different cables?!

With PrimaLuna, you get to choose. Go for it. 6L6G, 6L6GC, 7581A, EL34, EL37, 6550, KT66, KT77, KT88, KT90, KT120, even the monstrous KT150. A future-proof design, PrimaLuna is compatible with NEW tube types not even thought of today!

 

I replaced an excellent tube power amp with a highly regarded class A solid state amp in hopes of gaining more transparency and a better overall sound.
While the class A SS amp sounds incredible and I have no plans to make a move, the tube amp is actually more transparent and sounds better overall.

 

Tube amp was the rogue 100?

 

I have gone all tube-signal chain in my main system (thinking about replacing the SS Velodyne sub to a DIY tube crossover sub, just cuz), and am now slowly getting my bedroom system all tube.

I can't imagine going back to SS because of sound, but then again, you can get great sound for cheap with used and vintage tube gear, but really great SS gear is prohibitively expensive for me.

I could see going back to SS for the following reasons: expense, too much heat, guilt over wasteful energy (i.e., carbon footprint), convenience, reliability (maybe), potential portability, size of system, safety....

I am almost forgetting why I use tubes! (Oh yeah, I like how they sound )

 

Been sitting here working from home and been listening to my new Simaudio ACE and this is (by far) the most tube like SS amp I have experienced, just better at the bottom than most of my tube gear except the megabuck ARC stuff and even then close. But then it's crazy money for a 50W SS integrated. Or maybe it's the complete lack of interconnects between all the separate boxes I had in my office before. Since interconnects don't matter, that can't be it!

 

Hmmm....found myself eying a Sonic Frontiers Power 2 today....oh and a Rogue Stereo 100 on Canuck audio mart....really gotta love/hate this hobby Nothing wrong with my DNA225 just been a while between purchases and i'm weak lol.

 

I own one so I get that people will see bias, but I switched from a tube integrated (PrimaLuna Prologue Premium) to a Class A integrated (Luxman L550axII) and with the Class A you get all the tubes goodness in the midrange and better slam in the bass. It’s the best of both worlds IMO. I highly recommend a tryout. Doubt one would ever revert to tubes. My only upgrade would be to the L550’s big brother the L590.

 

First hand experience with the Stereo 100, a big winner. Not trying to tip your hand or anything......

 

yes sir. check with @Benzion , he just bought one.

 

Simaudio amps are wonderfully musical! I haven't heard the ACE as it doesn't quite fit my needs, but I do have a 340i (100 wpc) and it's fantastic. Of course Simaudio products get very expensive as you go up the line, I'm unlikely to ever step up to the 600i unless I got a crazy deal on a used one, the price jump is just way too much for me.

 

Had all tubes at one point then all SS class A and AB
And at one point no gear at all for a few years except a crap all in one music player, oh lord. Sold everything to fund another money suck hobby.....
Now I am enjoying a tube pre and I hate to say this class D amplification.
So far so good don't think I will be changing much anytime soon except messing around with source power supplies, dacs etc.

 

At 110lbs the power 2 might seem heavier to me than it did 10ish years ago ...so the Rogue looks like the logical choice for a tube power amp that retains the SS strengths....if i decide to go tube power again

 

I would go from tube to SS or class D - it all depends on the specific item and your budget. At the more elite end SET amps IME are the best sounding but they cost a bomb.

At the affordable end of the range - most of the tube amps are Push-Pull designs which, for the most part, are not that great. A Class A amp from First Watt/Pass Labs, Sugden, or certain high bias class A amps like the superb Pureadio One integrated I would take over pretty much all PP tube amps.

The upside of tubes is you can flavour the sound via tube-rolling - which can't be done with SS. On the other hand, if the SS amp simply sounds better than the jack of all traded PP tube amp no matter what tube you put in then I'll take it.

Class D has also GREATLY improved over the past 20 years or so so combined with a nice preamp they are rather impressive.

A lot of folks buy $5,000 tube integrated amps - But for about that money you can buy an Audio Note M1 line preamp and Wyred4Sound Class D monoblocks (250 watts per channel 430 into 4ohms) for $2,000.

You'll struggle to do better. And with separates, you can always buy a tube power amp down the line to add your flavour.

 

So much revolves around amp/speaker synergy. What speakers are you using when you compare the PL amp to the Luxman? Also not all tube amps are created equal for sure.

 

Why don't we make an open mic threading just so everyone can hear and have an idea.? Atleast it will give everyone a chance to watch, hear and learn that will help us guide through and improve areas we need to. Or even just for entertainment...

 

Or a tube preamp to add flavor, I am finding that with class D amplification sounds pretty darn nice

 

I have pared my Cornwall II with a Marantz 30 after several years with a Line Magnetic LM211IA. The Marantz was the clear winner here, class D Hypex Ncore 500.



Camera mode intentional. Subbass by SVS ultra 16.

 

The Stereo 100 is my current, and first tube power amp. I've had it since ~2017 or so. I feel spoiled by it, but first impressions are important, and it seems tube power amps and my ears jive well. Listening to Coltrane's Soultrane on vinyl as I type. Man. Wow. Textured, effortless, powerful... it suits Coltrane's playing. The amp far surpasses the Parasound Halo that preceded it in every way.

 

Yes they do! The ACE is for my office so 50 is fine, the phono stage is excellent, As is the DAC, and then the MIND module just does everything asked of it incredibly well. Thinking about the bigger brother for the Den! Or Maybe another ACE as a preamp with a bigger amp.

 

You'll be back to tubes. You know it. And I know it

 

Oh.. Walls of Tube Amps.. I'm ready to take a swim on it....

 

Well, any part can fail at any time -- that includes a bias resistor. And every tube will fail in some way eventually. They don't last forever and they aren't designed too and, although something like Blackburn Mullard EL34s were built like tanks and performed way beyond spec for heat dissipation, there's really no modern tubes built like that. A lot of modern tubes will red plate if they get anywhere close to the maximum heat dissipation spec, for whatever reason, where those old tubes could be run at the very edge of spec for decades.

I've had modern Russian output tubes of different types runaway and red plating in new amps and old amps, in hifi amps and guitar amps, in DIY amps and pro built amps, in fixed bias amps and cathode bias amps. I've had modern Chinese rectifier tubes fail almost instantly with spectacular light shows. Sometimes the problem has been something like a part in the bias supply that needed to be fixed. Sometimes it was just a runaway tube.

Sure, electrolytic capacitors will dry out or get leaky over time -- that's true in tube as well as in solid state amps. And 20, 30, 40, 50 year old piece of electronics is likely to have electrolytic caps that need replacing, and other parts that have drifted out of spec. And that's certainly true for parts that have been operating near the heat of output tubes for years.

But no amp designer yet has figured out how to make a tube that can't fail and never will.