Thoughts on Martin Logan speakers?

I just want to say that IMO this is the worst possible placement for a pair of MLs. Right-up against the front wall with a gigantic armoire in the middle. Just terrible! Perhaps, they pull them out a few feet for listening.

 

I owned Martin Logans years ago and enjoyed them very much. I recall two thoughts of caution:
1) Power - They like beefy amps. Not saying it has to be solid state, but I could find nothing close to my price range in tube amps that could drive them properly.
2) Head lock - You really need to be in the sweet spot to experience the full soundstage. Of course that's true of all speakers, just to a greater extent with the Martins.

That said, I have fond memories of those speakers.

 

What I have is 150W @ 8 ohms and 250 @ 4. I did see a pair on Audiogon about 3 or 4 hours away. They were asking $1k. Not sure if what I have is enuf? Specs I found said 60 to 200 watts. Only had the amp I have for about a year, so an upgrade would be difficult to convince the chairwoman of the board as far as budget. Speakers themselves have been tough sell.

 

She's leaving this entirely up to me. When listening, it is only me, she has no interest in sitting and listening to music. (My escape!!). I did show her the ML's on a recent visit to Best Buy and no negative reaction. Others I am considering are "box" speakers, which I am using now.

My amp budget (bought the Peachtree Nova 150) was blown last year, so that's what I have to deal with. I auditioned the amp while it was connected to the ESL's, so I'm thinking the amp would be fine with the ESL-X. I don't think I would want to try anything higher in the ML chain. Plus, we may be moving in a year or so and hope to get a better listening room in the process.

Yes, I agree, there is not a perfect speaker/room combo. And as others have said, there will always be compromises we will have to make.

Btw, dinner was ok. Just a sports bar, but food is usually good.

 

Yes, my experience would have me agreeing with you. My listening room is my "man cave" and am the only one using it for music. If I can get the position dialed in, I think it will be a fantastic experience.

I hoping my 150w @ 8 ohms will be enough for the ESL-X's, which is where I'm leaning. Possibly the ESL's with an additional sub. However, I have not closed the book on a "regular" speaker.

Thanks for posting!!

 

That "stand up" thing with the ESL's must be a Best Buy thing. I heard a kid say that when I was there wasting time while I was looking for speakers. I initially planned on getting ESL's, but after checking out the Motion series one afternoon, I ended up getting Motion 20's (that whole thing restarted my speaker auditioning as the 20's are not in a competing price class as the ESL's). I'll make one suggestion to you - look for a local shop that carries Martin Logans. I saved a ton of money without even asking. Less than everything but grey market refurb offers, actually. Plus, you can hear the ESL's with your own amp while you're there. I think you'll love them when you get them home. Every one of their speakers I've ever heard has sounded great, from the Motion series on up. They look cool, too.

 

I think you will find that you have more than enough power.

 

I am finding my Theos need power especially with low level listening. Most of my listening is done this way since I am on the 3rd floor of my house. Not real low but not loud either. Since I have no dedicated Amp I have them hooked up to a Integra DTR 40.5. It sounds OK. I borrowed an older amp and it sounded better, still have the amp but I get a slight buzzing out of one of the channels so it sits unused until I can give it back. For me I need 200 or more into 4 ohms. My Adcom 5500 sounded real good, sound-stage wise, but had no bass. Literally almost none. All the caps had dried out. I was using a sub with my other speakers before I bought the Theos so I never really noticed it. So the Integra works for now and I deal with the smaller sound it brings.

 

I have owned three sets of Martin Logans. The "Source", "Purity" and the Electromotion ESL. If I regret selling any it would be the Purity.

Source
Purity
ElectroMotion ESL

Used with Marantz and Parasound (2100 series) electronics. The Purity was self powered B&O ice modules. All excelled at strings, great air if given enough space.

 

This is a very interesting thread to me. I've loved the look and design of the ML speakers and came close to buying a pair of Summits 10 years or so ago. What put me off was actually listening to them in the dealers. I visited on three occasions, and always felt there was something not quite enjoyable enough about the sound to make me go home with them. At the time I was listening to everything I could hear locally, including Wilson and B&Ws but really wanted to like the ML's....sadly, I never could. The dealer tried to tell me that the music I was using to audition them was not the best produced...he might have been right but it was my music, so the speakers I bought had to handle it, not have me buying music to suit the speakers!

I put this down to something about the Summits and have always made a point of trying to hear other ML models at every opportunity. At RMAF last year I loved the sound of the silly expensive models I heard with uber-power conditioning and front-end gear but these would not fit in my room, nor would my financial life ever stretch to accommodate them. I tried the latest line (Renaissance?) that go for about $15k on three occasions over the weekend and could not quite warm to them. Reviewers mention the disconnect between modules but that was not it for me -- I just felt the music sounded one dimensional, lifeless and quite ordinary. Nothing really wrong with it, but I just did not connect or warm to the sound as I had hoped I would. This has been my experience with ML repeatedly...I want to love them but somehow cannot. Maybe if I had a pair in my own room I'd think differently but then again....

Now someone mentioned Sanders above...there's a speaker I think looks unattractive but man, in every demo I've been in, that speaker has sounded incredibly good. If the MLs sounded that good, I'd not be typing this.

 

Quicksilvers V4 (tube amps) are 140w per side but I have KT120s that gives just a bit more> on the 4ohm tap

You should have enough power! I thought of upgrading, but Mike at Quicksilver said the (new) MLs are too hard to drive, low impedance.
He saved me a lot of $$$ still happy with my Aerius!

sean

 

You say you haven't closed the book on a regular speaker instead of panels. Which models would that be?

Certain brands share some characteristics with panels. In terms of imaging and the 'speakers disappearing act', I have heard systems with Audio Physic and Totem that are able to do this. OTOH, only panels will sound 100% like panels.

 

I had a pair of ML's. The purest most liquid midrange I think I've ever heard. But in the end, there is so much more to music than that. Good luck, under the right conditions they can be magical.

 

GB, my local dealer has the Logans as well as B&W as their primary brands. I have not heard the new 700 B&W's yet, so would like to give them a listen. Have heard they are much improved over what I have, the CM5 S1. But I'm mostly interested in a full range floor stander. They have another brand, but only the stand-mount is in my price range. (Aerial). I would likely need to add a sub if I go that route.

Music preferences are about 75% classic rock and the remaining 25 split between jazz and classical.

 

Thank you. This is why I started this thread. Looking for other peoples impressions of the ML's to help be give me the information for a more careful listen when I go in to making a decision. (I do have a tendency to analyze things to death.)

I know there is no perfect solution, especially at my price point. Just want to avoid having to listen to fingernails on a chalkboard. Just something that sounds as natural as possible. (On my beer budget.)

 

Definitely no fingernails on the chalkboard kind of experience for me, I think you can count on that. In the end they just never offered the "weight" that I was looking for in my space. I chuckled at your beer budget quote. From an early age my mother began warning me about "my champagne taste and beer pocket book". She was right.

 

If that's your fear, be confident. ML are about as far as you can get from nails on a chalkboard. I have never heard such resolving but 'friendly' treble in cone speakers. No sharpness or hardness at all.

Weaknesses would be in areas like panel-woofer integration, and realistic rendering of the impact/body of percussive sounds. Imo.

Just a thought: if it turns out you miss traditional cone speakers after a while, you could perhaps add a modest second system built around cone speakers.

 

I have the same music preferences as you. I ran B&Ws for more than 20 years. I loved them and still do. They truly rock so I would give the new 702's a serious listen since they are in the same ball park money-wise as the ESL-X.

FWIW, I also ran a pair of vintage Tannoy Arden, which were beyond spectacular on harder classic rock. That 15" driver in a big solid cabinet pressurized the room like nothing else I have had and they are so easy to drive! As much as I love my MLs now, I will admit that if louder, heavier classic rock was still my real bread and butter then I would probably go find myself a pair of really nice 15" vintage Tannoy Gold drivers/crossovers, stick them in custom made, nicely finished, heavy duty enclosures. I'd put them on some serious stands so the tweeter was at ear height and take no prisoners!! IMO, you haven't heard heard Zeppelin until you have heard Whole Lotta Love cranked on a pair of speakers with 15" drivers and big, solid Tannoy spec. cabinets!!!

 

Funny you mention Tannoy. When I was thinking I would stay in the $2k to 2.5K budget, I was interested in hearing the Tannoy XT-8's. I was not able to listen as there were none available. Now that I'm thinking closer to $4k, I might see what may be available to give a listen. I think Tannoy has an option or two in this range.

Something else which has me interest are some used Joseph Audio Profiles. Have not seen a lot about them, but what I have seen has been very positive. I see about 2 or 3 pairs available right now.

Not sure if it's my hearing but my CM5's began to bother me in the treble range. Could not sit through long listen sessions without fatigue. Swapped them out with my HT front speakers and they are doing really well there. Maybe were not a good match to amp/room. Moved the HT fronts to listening room. These are MA Silver 6's which are about 10 -12 years olds. OK, but still not quite there. Thus, my search.....

 

Oh, as I mentioned in another response, I want to hear the new 700 Series B&W's. Hear they are quite an improvement over the CM's. The nearby audio dealer has both, the ML's and B&W's.

 

I don't remember thinking they were cold or analytical, but it has been a couple of years since I gave them a listen. As I recall, I did not much like the way the bass was integrated and thought they did not image well. But by all means, if you think they will work for you, get a pair on trial and check them out. It is only your ears and your opinion that count.

 

I also did not like B&W.

 

My 45W Tube Integrated has no problem driving the EM-ESL. Modern day MLs are not nearly as power hungry as the were in the past. Most are 90+DB efficient. Also I prefer it's sound to the 200W Rotel and Parasound SS amps I had.

 

Did you hear the new 700's? They are reported as being very different from the CM's. If so, what did you not like? Too much brightness is one of the criteria I have in what looking for. As I mentioned in a earlier post, I want to avoid "fingernails on a chalkboard."

Thanks!

 

Thanks for your post. I hope to go give a serious listen to these as well as B&W in the next week or two.