Thoughts on Martin Logan speakers?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by heyMo, Mar 11, 2018.

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  1. ChrisR2060

    ChrisR2060 Stereo addict

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I have had the Aerius i back some 15 years ago. Sure they are transparent and image great, but not any better than very good bookshelves.
    What I did not like was the integration of the bass driver below, and the extreme directionality. Move your head a few inches and you're off-axis. It's a one listener speaker. If you want to go with planars, Magnepan is a better option in my view.
     
  2. heyMo

    heyMo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    LKN west, NC
    Interesting, thanks for your input. Earlier today, I had the opportunity to go into the big blue box store and had a few moments for a demo. The salesman demo'ed the B&W 702 with his one "go to" demo song. It was a live Adelle song with audience participation. It was really good on the 702. They did not have the ML ESL-X, but did have the ESL. No comparison. The 702 was much more life-like. Of course, the $2k price difference, you would hope for this result. Have not heard the "X" yet.

    I have heard Maggies but discounted them because of their size. Thinking they may be too big for my space (physically), plus they may be power hungry? However, I will take a look at them again when I look at the X from ML. I think the dealer has those as well.

    Thanks!
     
  3. audiomixer

    audiomixer As Bald As The Beatles

    The older Logans were my all-time favorites; from the 90's.
     
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  4. heyMo

    heyMo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    LKN west, NC
    Have not heard the earlier versions. Some have said the bass integration is lacking in earlier models. Which ones stood out for you?

    Thanks!
     
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  5. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    To be fair to Martin Logan the new ones are LOT better than the Aerius I era ML which Chris refers to. I wholeheartedly agree with his take on those speakers. They are great on some things but poor driver integration and head in a vice sound. Though I have just as many albeit different problems with Magnepan.

    If cost were not an issue I would go with Soundlab and with cost in mind I'd go with KingSound. Assuming I had to have a panel. I have not heard KingSound's Queen speaker which looks like the ML - panel to woofer hybrid. The price in Hong Kong is really attractive and if the integration is respectable enough it would likely be half the price of the MLS. But made in China if that matters. The owner is Chinese though so that's different than a western company just exploiting cheap labor.

    If you can't go with a fatty wide baffle speaker (and you should if you can) then take a look at Rossofiorintino speakers - they are a cut above B&W IMO and for a slim speaker sound quite nice indeed.

    Rosso Fiorentino - certaldo
     
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  6. heyMo

    heyMo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    LKN west, NC
    Thanks for the information. I have not decided that a panel speaker is what I want. I'm just looking at them as an alternative and what to look out for in auditions. I have always had "box" speakers, just thinking about alternatives.

    I looked up the Rosso's and it looks like the Elba's would more be in my price range. Unfortunately, there is not a dealer locally (within a relatively short drive) where I can listen to them. A dealer was listed in Virginia, but not sure if it's a brick and mortar location. For this reason, I may not be able to consider these. Though some online outlets have good return policies, I would rather not purchase anything I can not give a listen to first.

    The used market is also a consideration, depending on where they are located.

    Thanks again for responding.
     
  7. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    That is the problem with the audio industry - the big manufacturers are simply far easier to sell and dealers don't really want to spend the time educating they want to spend the time transacting. So most stores carry the big names. It drives me nuts in Hong Kong because every MTR train station here is connected to a mall and the malls all sell the same thing. But smaller makers often better are far more difficult to find.
     
    heyMo likes this.
  8. swvahokie

    swvahokie Forum Resident

    Dealers have to eat too Richard. Most local stores cant afford to absorb the orphaned inventory of a failed manufacturer. Sucks, but life isnt always fair.
     
  9. heyMo

    heyMo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    LKN west, NC
    Charlotte is a big enough town where there should be more choices, however.........
     
  10. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    And that doesn't bother me. Terry, rest in peace, at Soundhounds in Victoria BC sold gear for over 40 years and he once told me that 90% of people who came in were already presold to the brand they were looking for. So he carried a lot of brands some he didn't personally like at all. But you may as well carry what the people want or your competitor certainly will. So he carried (the store still goes on) the big brands B&W, Dynaudio, McIntosh, Bryston, Magnepan, Sonus Faber etc. That will put food on the table.

    But for more experienced Audiophiles he sold the stuff he would want to own and did own - Audio Note, Wyatech. That was for the 10% who spent serious time auditioning and not viewing him and his staff as a used car dealers. It is a different shop than most all other dealers who carried stuff purely on the bottom line. I went to Vancouver's big hi-fi store and was talking to them about the tube amp lines they carried and I mentioned Line Magnetic.

    The first question out of the guy's mouth was "what's the margin" and the second was are they well known. AT the time they were not and I don't know the margin. Soundhounds on the other hand would actually listen and evaluate whether it actually sounded any good and if it did they could trust their 10% base would like it and they might be able to sell them.

    B&M stores basically have customer service to sell. You can buy most stuff online these days. And I always appreciated Soundhounds honesty and they were not upset if you didn't like the sound of something. I remember when I dropped by and the salesman,Paul, asked me to listen to the new Meridian system and speakers. I came out with a "they're ok" comment and Paul was dealing with a fellow at the register - he was hoping I would say "they suck" because the fellow at the register was the Meridian rep. That's the way they roll. Another brand I was discussing and Terry said - now they're just a soulless corporation and not what they once were. Hence we go back to the 90% - the 90% don't want the dealer's opinion or experience - they want the flashy tweeter on top with the sexy cabinets or the panel conversation piece - or the blue meters on the tube amp - and someone gave it all a good review so the decision is easy. Of course that was in 2000. And in general - their big brands don't suck.

    If I were a dealer I'd want to sell B&W and Magnepan - but I would not have either in my home.
     
  11. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I'll mention them! I think they're overpriced for what you get, and when it comes to planar speakers I far, far prefer the sound (and the imaging!) of Magnepans. It's not even close.
     
  12. stuwee

    stuwee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson AZ
    Again, it all depends on soooo many factors, my first experience with a very high-end system was a schoolmate's, insane early Maggie's driven with a monster Threshold pre and amp. His Daddy had tons of money!! This was early 1980's, I was wow'd. Even with the speakers crammed in the corners, back against the wall with that lovely gear in between on a table...and those early Threshold's were the bomb back then, especially in the back woods of Iowa!?!! :p

    My point is he didn't have them set up properly, I knew that back then and I have a friend today that has 20.1i's in another difficult room, long and narrow, using monster Chinese tube amps. I like the sound, been begging him to drag the system over to my house (it's not perfect but, it's damn good for a planar set up). He loves the ML's, likes the jump, 'bump' factor, he's old and set in his ways, bless him, that is what it's all about....being thrilled with what you have...:righton::righton:, may we all get there!!
     
  13. stuwee

    stuwee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson AZ
    heyMo, you talkin' 'bout Adele's ~ "Live at the Royal Prince Albert Hall" recording? "Rollin' in the Deep"?

    This is where the recording comes into play, it's compressed, yeah, hard to compress Adele vocals IMHO but, the sound stage is barely there, my old Marantz 880HD's slayed this recording, however, whoever was working the soundboard during "Lovesong" and the mix down, knew there stuff :cheers:, damn near perfect!! And it doesn't matter how great your speakers are with a song like that, you just need a nice vintage 1970's muscle car, cruisin' out here in the desert with your hand out the window, wav'n along to the tune...:love: :targettiphat:
     
  14. heyMo

    heyMo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    LKN west, NC
    Yep, that's the CD. Agreed, Adele's voice is difficult to hold back.
     
  15. heyMo

    heyMo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    LKN west, NC
    Are there any placement concerns for the Maggies? Their website is pretty vague on this. Thanks!
     
  16. Diskhound

    Diskhound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Interesting. Tell us more about the speaker models you compared and exactly why you think Martin Logan's are over priced.
     
  17. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I've listened to a bunch of ML's over the years. Don't recall model numbers. That includes their big planar speakers as well as the smaller bookshelf speakers with I guess the ribbon tweeters. Thought they all had a pinched sound and surprisingly poor imaging. The exact opposite of my reaction to Magnepans, which have a lovely, balanced sound, transparency and produce a sort of holographic soundstage that leaves me looking for the surround speakers.

    Maggies are really, really fussy about placement, though. I've always wanted a pair, but not enough to buy a large home with great big rooms for them to live in. You can get lucky in smaller spaces, but it's a crapshoot. Also, you need an amp that can handle large loads at low ohms to get good performance out of them. That adds up.

    I'd rather have a pair of KEF LS50s than any ML speaker I've ever heard - at least the imaging is stunning. I don't much love the tonal balance of the LS50s either, but at least the soundstage isn't flat as a pancake. I also far prefer the new B&W 700 series speakers to any of the ML stuff in the same class currently on offer at Best Buy (I guess that's their Motion series?). The B&W's have a lovely tonal balance, a bit cool but not strident, and they've tamed those ringing tinny tweeters (especially on the cheaper models).
     
  18. heyMo

    heyMo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    LKN west, NC
     
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  19. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    I don't like Logans.
    I sold the heck out of them in my day as a salesman because they have a lot of speed and look "cool."
    The earlier Logan "Monolith" with a HUGE panel and a 12 inch cone sounded pretty darn swell.
    These were crossed over at 100hZ which left the midrange primarily without any notch which is just peachy.
    But Logan wanted to look "sexy" so they started shrinking the panel size.
    At some point with a thin panel and more of a load on the cone part---you have all the negatives of stats and none of the glory.
    Give me a Quad stat if I had an apartment where bass was verboten.
    NO cone. Just pure stat panel.
    Very little bass too, but that's fine in an apartment.
    But frankly it might just be easier to use a Harbeth without a sub if bass is a problem.
    My Harbeth Monitor 30s sound as clear as a stat panel, have tight bass to around 55hz and are in a very compact box.
    The Harbeths image and load a room much better than any panel I've heard and I've heard a lot of them in my day.
    So phooey on stats.
    And anyway after years of selling Logans I hear the Saran Wrap they are made of waaaay too easily.
    It kind of kills them for ME even with all that speed.
    These opinions are for models up to around early 2001.
    After that I left retail for good.
    With lousy room setups and customers demanding to spend hours being convinced which widget was "magic" and so forth---the whole thing became a real bore.
    It's discouraging to try to help customers learn to set things up to get better sound.
    Most just wanted some blue dials to gaze at.
    YMMV.
     
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  20. audiomixer

    audiomixer As Bald As The Beatles

    From over 25 years ago?!?
    No friggin' clue. lol
     
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  21. stuwee

    stuwee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson AZ
    Dr. Fine you make some very valid points, however, I hear 'Bitter, party of one, your table is ready' in that post. That said, I've had open ears for many different speakers, and liked many for different reasons, none gave me all I wanted, I never had to have anyone teach me on how to set them up, I did that with my own ears. I understand how frustrating that must have been in the retail biz, with hoards of the unwashed and unknowledgable demanding time and effort to get their jolly's!! Ouch!! GO AWAY! Sheeze!! I think heyMo has a handle on what he wants...wink, wink, heyMo....ML's have their hook in you, just go with your heart :love:
     
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  22. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    No speaker is a magic "widget" but some are easier to get results from.
    Logans can satisfy and would even be true high performance stat panels if treated correctly.
    Kill the reflections behind and to the sides.
    Kick a model that is big enough to cover your listening area effortlessly.
    Perhaps use them, like Quads, for low volume "sweet spot only" special rooms like apartments.
    But their radiation pattern with the narrow panel models and overall "thin" tonal balance makes them very picky about amps, setup and room loading is pretty much impossible with them as the sweet spot is so narrow.
    I much prefer a system that does all those thing AND covers the room more evenly---like a column designed stack from Wilson or something.
    I like having a sweet spot pretty much the entire room.
    Stats will never do that.
    But if you like "tech" speakers and are in love with speed Martin Logan is a special speaker.
    Folks that will never take the time to put their speakers in the "perfect" loading spot might actually get better results with such a directional design.
    If all you want is ONE sweet spot then Logans might be perfect.
     
  23. Bathory

    Bathory 30 yr Single Malt, not just for breakfast anymore

    Location:
    usa
    they are amazing speakers. if i had the cash, i would buy !
    Sanders are top in the electrostatic speakers. he is the one who invented them. can't go wrong with Sanders Sound Systems stuff!
    happy hunting
     
  24. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"


    Actually I know the designer of Martin Logans and it was NOT Roger Sanders.
    It was Gayle Sanders.
    It is just coincidence that the latest move in stat panels is being designed by another guy with a similar name.
    Gayle is a great guy and he sold Martin Logan a while back.
    I hope he is enjoying his Harley now.
     
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  25. Bathory

    Bathory 30 yr Single Malt, not just for breakfast anymore

    Location:
    usa
    roger invented the electrostatic flat panel and curved panel. ( i think)

    ill check, if your right, so be it, if im right so be it.
    im not argioung. peace
     
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