Three (Now Eight) Upcoming Sinatra/Capitol Titles on MFSL LP & SACD*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Bob F, Aug 21, 2012.

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  1. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    I saw that iTunes has two versions of Songs for Swingin' Lovers. One has Frank looking at the couple, the other has him turned away from the couple. Is the latter an indication that that version (mastered for iTunes) is based on the MFSL master? This thread is so long I just don't have time to read through it.

    I would just buy the SACD but (a) it's expensive and (b) I don't know if my external CD drive will read the CD layer of the hybrid disc.
     
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    The one with him facing toward the couple has a 1998 date, so it's likely the Norberg CD mastering. (I have not checked.)
     
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  3. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    What @MLutthans said, plus: I believe the one with him facing away from the couple (MFiT) is based on the 2016 UMe LP. Whether that was sourced from the 2014 MFSL SACD master is a matter for debate, but it seems likely. (I haven't done a direct comparison of the iTunes version.)

    Any CD drive can read the Redbook layer of the hybrid SACD disc (which I recommend highly for this title).
     
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  4. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored


    I've actually had CD/DVD drives that wouldn't read the CD layer of hybrid discs! They got stuck trying to read the SACD layer.
     
  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    ....and I had a similar problem several years back, but only with my RCA Living Stereo SACDs. Go figure!
     
  6. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I guess I've been fortunate not to have encountered that problem with recent SACDs (including all of the MFSL Sinatra discs) on a variety of hardware. It's a subject for a different thread, but for me, the solution would be simple: Find a computer/drive combo which works, do a lossless rip of the CD layer, and burn my own CD-R.
     
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  7. AJH

    AJH Senior Member

    Location:
    PA Northern Tier
    It's really kind of hit or miss. I have numerous computers available to me (both Mac and Windows), and occasionally I will come across a dual-layer SACD that can't be read by one of the drives attached to a specific computer. If this happens, I just put the SACD it in a different drive on another computer, and it usually rips just fine (I use dBpoweramp for my rips). Occasionally, I even get a regular CD that refuses to rip in one of the drives, and again I just move the CD to a drive in another computer and it almost always works. One computer I have available to me is an old Dell Dimension from 2005, and it will rip almost anything you can throw at it! However, there doesn't seem to be any consistent reason why this will happen in the first place.
     
  8. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    To @Bob F

    Hey Bob, I know that has to have been discussed somewhere....... But out of Sinatra's mammoth (and glorious) catalog, how is it that ONLY 6 SACDs are still in print? And also, why is the SACD of FS Sings for Only the Lonely NOT in print?

    Is this just the nature of these "specialty" type items?

    (I already own 5 of the 6 above.) (Still looking for the Only the Lonely SACD.)

    Thanks so much!

    -- David
     
  9. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Short history lesson (with a certain amount of unofficial conjecture)...

    Back in the 1980s, MFSL has produced a highly acclaimed set of audiophile-quality Sinatra Capitol LPs (the "silver box"). And in 1990, they did a one-off release of Songs for Swingin' Lovers on a Gold CD. But it wasn't until 2008 that MFSL was newly licensed to produce Sinatra albums. (This was shortly after the formation of Frank Sinatra Enterprises in 2007.) The first two titles were Nice 'n' Easy and Only the Lonely on 180g LP and Gold CD (not SACD).

    Unfortunately, there was some sort of controversy about the packaging and labeling: FSE and/or EMI/Capitol would not allow MFSL to include its name, logo, limited edition numbers, or any printed changes to the existing Capitol CDs other than the "Original Master Recording" banner. Rumors surfaced that MFSL was sufficiently annoyed by the legal demands that they would not do any more Capitol albums after that.

    From 2009–11, MFSL released a half-dozen Reprise titles on LP only (not CD or SACD), but no Capitol titles. It was feared that those initial two albums would be the only Capitol issues from MoFi. And then in 2012, we were all surprised when they announced resumption of the Capitol series—this time on hybrid SACD and vinyl.

    However, before the announced releases were completed, EMI's Capitol holdings were sold to Uuiversal Music Group. Apparently, UMG had other ideas about their Sinatra catalog, and some of the MFSL issues were canceled. Those six SACDs which are still in print are the ONLY Sinatra SACDs which MoFi produced.

    Clear as mud? If you go back to the beginning of this thread (and its two predecessors) you might be able to learn more, or at least read between the lines. (If I recall, there was an earlier thread that was removed because of inappropriate industry speculation, so tread lightly.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
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  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    That still strikes me as being so very weird! o_O I was just thinking about this the other day when I was looking at the No One Cares SACD realizing that it (and others) stuck very carefully to the original LP design (in terms of text and notes), while those 2009 releases duplicated the CD text and notes.
     
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  11. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    Thank you for the history. The end result is a hodge podge for those who like their Sinatra available on CD or SACD, if you want the best available sound - along with the strong feeling that no one has the best possible sound on CD or SACD (even as we enjoy vinyl, both original and reissue)
     
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  12. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    Hey, thanks much for the context, Bob. Good to know. (wow, quite a story here)

    -- David
     
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  13. Timeless Classics

    Timeless Classics Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    For the newest MFSL of "Where Are You," if you were to pick the LP vs SACD, which would you get? Sorry if this post is in the wrong place. I've been trying to follow the Sinatra MFSL threads and I keep getting redirected.
     
  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Pick your format. Both are well done, and if you have one you probably won't miss the other. (Yes, I own both.)
     
  15. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    I wonder why MFSL hasn't undertaken Songs For Young Lovers / Swing Easy and In the Wee Small Hours. Have the tapes disappeared or something?
     
  16. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    MFSL isn't undertaking ANYTHING new. See: history lesson above.

    The tapes are there. Those three titles saw new vinyl releases by UMe in the past 2½ years. (Which left CD/SACD buyers out in the cold, unfortunately.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
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  17. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Okay, I get it.

    The Sinatra organization and UMe should be grateful to MoFi and treat them with more respect. There. I said it.

    I'm one of the CD / SACD buyers left in the cold. It's frosty out here without Songs For Young Lovers / Swing Easy and In the Wee Small Hours.

    I've seriously considered buying a new turntable and building a vinyl Sinatra collection. I wouldn't go back in tech time for anyone but Sinatra. The only thing that prevents me is space. I moved out of a big house over a year ago and into a smaller place. The walls are already lined with shelves up to the ceiling. There's no floor space to put a new rig.
     
  18. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Starting building my list at HRaudio.net. All the SACD's and MFSL's are entered except Frank Sinatra Sings Only For the Lonely. It's the only Sinatra not in their database.
     
  19. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    MoFi released ONLY THE LONELY (along with NICE 'N EASY) on gold CD, years before the hybrid Sinatra/Capitol discs came out.
     
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  20. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Oh, that explains it. What wasn't I thinking.
     
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  21. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
  22. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Regarding the MFSL CD of Point of No Return.

    My copy has the blue-band across the top saying Original Master Recording.

    But now I'm seeing copies with a brown band across the top.

    Is that the only difference?
     
  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Actual CD:
    [​IMG]
    I think the brown-band images that show up (including on my own website) are mock-ups from promotional materials.
     
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

  25. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Fastest post-er in the west, MLutthans.
     
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