Three years into vinyl, where to go from here.....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Chester0711, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I think quite a few people have missed the detail that you haven’t made any upgrades in a year. A year is enough time living with a system to know what is lacking.

    It is quite possible your bookshelf speakers perform very well for their price tag, and that you would need to upgrade massively to hear enough improvement to feel it was worth any expense at all. If that’s what you find as you check out speakers, I would suggest again that you may get a lot of the improvement you are looking for by adding a subwoofer to fill in where your speakers leave off. You also may get more placement flexibility than if you were trying to rearrange the room for tower speakers.

    About a year ago, I went from bookshelf to floorstanding speakers thinking I could get basically full frequency response without a subwoofer. The speaker upgrade was a massive improvement, no question. A few months ago, though, I added a subwoofer to the system, and it was astounding how much fuller everything sounded immediately. Had I added the subwoofer first, I think it’s possible I would still be holding off on upgrading the main speakers.

    Regarding your “test” policy question, do you mean they would not do a demo in store for you? Or just that nothing leaves the store without payment? I am of the understanding in-store demos are a standard part of the business, so I’d probably be trying to find another dealer if they won’t do that for you. If they are just saying you can’t do an in-home audition free of charge, then that is typical.
     
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  2. Fifth-Chord

    Fifth-Chord VG+

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    That's awesome, my first pairing with a turntable was a set of Polk T15. I still have them set up in my small office.
     
  3. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Floor standers plus subs will give OP the punch...
     
    Big Blue likes this.
  4. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I think whether there is such a thing as “too much” spent on records comes down to the OP’s overall financial situation, which is of course not our business. If it is really a matter of only so much money to go around, and the amount spent on records dictating a low speaker budget, then I agree this could be a useful consideration.

    In general, though, I don’t think there can be too much music, and a record a day (OP seems to be at more like a record and a half per day) is actually something I would make a habit for myself if I could swing it.
     
    troggy likes this.
  5. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Yep. I’m even trying to figure out if there is any way to configure my room to get a second sub in my setup at some point, even though a lot of people would probably think one 15-inch subwoofer with floorstanders should be too much already...
     
    pdxway likes this.
  6. troggy

    troggy Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow

    Location:
    Benton, Illinois
    Yep.
     
  7. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Unapologetic Music Ho

    tube amplification (at least in the "pre" section) and larger (read more impactful) speakers
     
  8. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Wishing You A Crystal Clear Digital Christmas!

    Just a great post, hope he listens!
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  9. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    AND, after 63 years - 2000 lp’s. Can you imagine if he bought 1.5 per day???
     
  10. eyeCalypso

    eyeCalypso Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Where to go next? The psychiatrist's office. Just kidding. I would suggest stop buying, keep listening, and make tweeks here and there that cost nothing like move the speakers around.
     
  11. Helom

    Helom I'll take the monkey coffins

    Location:
    U.S.
    This is a great suggestion. These speakers dig deep but shouldn't overload your space. I had 1Cis for a while. They had excellent synergy with my A-S501. In fact, I heard better sound from that combo than I did with 2CE Signature IIs paired with my A-S1100.

    In my system, with exception of bass extension, they significantly outperformed the 2X more costly 2CE Sigs. The 1Cis are one of the best overall speaker values I've encountered. I prefer them over Magnepan 1.7is and numerous floorstanders in the 2 to $3K price range. If set up correctly, you'll hear decay that is rare among even the very best of speakers.

    It shouldn't be difficult to locate a minty pair for your budget. I saw a barely used pair listed for $600 a few months ago. Very recently, a mint demo pair was being sold for $950 on Audiogon. Here's a pair with a couple blemishes for $625 + shipping:
    Vandersteen 1ci Speakers, pair, includes extras! Buyer to pay actual shipping costs
     
    timind likes this.
  12. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Wishing You A Crystal Clear Digital Christmas!

    I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Polk LSiM series speakers yet, considering they are 1/2 price now, and I can tell you, they are extremely nice speakers, either the LSiM 703 or the 705 or the 707, all are 1/2 price, what more could you ask for???

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  13. Johnny Action

    Johnny Action Forum President

    Location:
    Tacoma, WA, USA
    Sell it all off and start again from zero. It’s the equipment acquisition that you crave, not the music itself.
     
  14. Wes_in_va

    Wes_in_va Trying to live up to my dog’s expectations

    Location:
    Southwest VA
    Where were you when I was falling down that same hole about 7 years ago????
     
    bever70 likes this.
  15. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Polk speakers really got me supercharged on the audiophile path back in the early 90’s
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  16. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Actually I don't get the post. Like others here, I saw the need to get more "punch". There are lots of room to improve in that regards.
     
  17. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    Punch was the word that jumped out to me in @Chester0711 's OP. As in, "I basically like my system, but I'd like more oomph." The Elacs are obviously good all-rounders at a fine price, but I don't know that I've ever heard the word "punchy" to describe them, nor has that been an impression from admittedly compromised youtube sound demos. I just wonder if a home trial of another speaker (or two) in the "excellent, but quite affordable" area might not solve much of the problem. (They're never completely solved.)

    chester, I guess I'd want to know if you like the basic tonality of the system. You didn't mention highs, bass slam/extension, imaging, etc (I may have missed that).

    I would wonder what you might think of something like the Klipsch RP-600 (maybe even the $200 less RP-160?), which Steve Guttenberg describes as have so much "life". (Does "life" include punch?) The new PSB Alphas seem to have a fairly exuberant sound to them (the floorstanding T20 is also pretty compact). The B&W 607 seems like a very detailed beast. I even think of my Diamond 225s as pretty punchy when called for. There can be a fine line between detailed and punchy and bright and fatiguing, of course.

    Places like Crutchfield have 60-day trials (Music Direct, too). Audio Advisor does 30. I'd like to see you have that "protection" while you see if that would do the trick.

    You might spend some time on youtube with Tharrbamar's demo videos. Not an ideal auditioning tool, of course, but the guy has reviewed and recorded a lot of nice speakers and perhaps you can get a feel for how some of them compare to one another and maybe where you feel like you fit in as far in terms of your preferences.
     
    Chester0711 likes this.
  18. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Wishing You A Crystal Clear Digital Christmas!

    I think you are correct about the equipment acquisition! But I am thinking his musical experience is so lacking with the Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 speakers, he is simply not enjoying listening. Not long ago I had a young man stop by, as he wanted to purchase my Parasound HALO Integrated. He asked if he could bring his Elac Debut speakers and I said sure, we will hook them right up. I don't mean to be critical, but the test went so badly, I did not really know what to say or not say, the presentation was just terrible, and that was using the PS Audio Direct Stream DAC and Memory player into the Parasound HALO Integrated using beautifully mastered SACDs by Reference Recordings and other cutting edge recordings. That day was my only exposure to the smaller Elac bookshelf speakers, but it was enough to make a real impression. I ended up showing him what the amplifier was capable of through Aerial 10T speakers, however he was so soured over the sound from his Elac speakers, it blew the entire audition of the Integrated amplifier. His comments were that the Parasound was just a poor match for his speakers! :yikes:

    I believe Chester 0711 would experience a much improved musical experience with larger, better loudspeakers. I know he is interested in saving money, which is why I recommended any of the Polk LSiM series of speakers at 50-53% off their standard price right now. I realize he has a smaller room, but if he would try the smaller LSiM 705 floor standers, compared to his current speakers, he would be very pleased, no, beyond very pleased. I think the 705s would be perfect for him, better than the large bookshelf 703s, and not as overwhelming as the 707s. I hope he considers these speakers, that are now discounted 53% off, as this model is finally going to be discontinued, so they won't be around much longer. The 705s are normally $1,500.00 each. Their footprint is very small, and they are only 47" tall! I purchased a pair of the 707s and 703s about one month ago, absolutely fantastic speakers. They are not as good as the Aerial 10Ts, but I just had to try them out, glad I did. Here is a link to the sale that won't go on much longer.

    https://www.adorama.com/pklsim705b.html

    Good luck to Chester 0711 in your quest for the best sound possible, I believe you should start with new floor standing speakers, the 705's would be perfect for you. The next step would be to add a nice powered sub, and then work on a great 2 channel pre-amp/ amp or Integrated, and lastly, upgrade your phono cartridge and phono stage, in that order! :righton:


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    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  19. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    I strongly, Strongly, STRONGLY disagree with this kind of floorstanders so thin and long as bamboo canes with their TOY 5 inchers (so called) "woofers", The OP wants some punch and slam, only chance is a 12" equipped speaker. One is free to choose: someone can afford it refined at $4000 -> JBL L100 classic. Someone want to experience it NOW at $400 -> Cerwin Vega XLS-12, they are so good at rocking the house you would not believe it.
    There is nothing worst in music listening than maintaining a 'snob' audiophile attitude on a severe budget! And I mean: bloody small bookshelfs.
    I did review the OP's record collection and it screams for a live voiced experience. Small sized speakers can be suited for singer/songwriter records or for low-volume string quartet classical quiet mood, maybe for female voice jazz-like midnight club music. When one wants to ROCK, let the stereo PUMP it, NOT whisper it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  20. moomaloo

    moomaloo All-round good egg

    I was still trying to climb out of my own hole at that point...
     
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  21. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    I believe THIS is 100% true. Couldn’t have said it better myself. It wasn’t until I hooked up the L100’s that I figured out I was going about it wrong the whole time. This is why it frustrates me that the major US magazines have no interest in reviewing and promoting them. If I had to guess, I’d say a pretty large segment of the people chasing the right sound, listen to music that would sound best on a speaker like this. Unfortunately they get sent down the wrong path from the get go, then try to fix it with upgrades and tweaks.
     
    Jimi Floyd likes this.
  22. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    OK, apparently the CV XLS-12 are $400 each, not the pair... my bad!
     
  23. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Still within budget...
     
  24. Riotvan

    Riotvan Member

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Stereo subs and acoustics, some bass traps will increase perceived (mid)bass. Making them yourself is very cost effective. Your budget is more then enough for some used subs, wood, cloth and rockwool.
     
    sturgus likes this.
  25. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    I have used twin subs with small speakers in small rooms like OP. Even with six 6" deep bass panels, I could only get the low bass shakes, but not the mid bass punch, unfortunately.

    In small rooms like the OP's, there is always a deep null (due to room modes) somewhere between 80 Hz to 150 Hz, depending on speakers positions and listening position. I could not solve that issue in such small room.

    Then there are the issues of matching the timing, phase, and crossover points of subs to the speakers. To make things simple for OP, I think best course of action to get started is to get big floor standers? This is just a guess though, as I have not tried big standers in small room....
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019

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