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Tim Buckley: Album by Album, note for note appreciation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by lemonade kid, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. Williamson

    Williamson Forum Resident

    I was listening to her last weekend. Very under-appreciated singer/songwriter.
     
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  2. mameyama

    mameyama Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Wiltshire, UK
    Yes. If he had only made it to his mid-30s I would have had a good chance of seeing him.
     
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  3. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    Side two, up next, comprises various live performances edited and enhanced (in a good way)
    by the engineer/production staff at Elektra to create this wonderful side.

    So if any of you have more about these last three tracks please share--this one first please.

    Lee shines here...as does Tim as usual!

    track 3) I Had A Talk With My Woman

    This is one we have several live versions to enjoy also. Love this one
    and it embodies all that Tim wanted to achieve IMHO. His APEX.




    Had a talk with my woman late last night
    And she reassured me everything was alright
    And time hung still like a falling rain
    Now i know at last that my love is safe
    Ah but when i go away my love i leave
    Lord i'm but half a man without her by my side
    She's this memory that i hold all around
    She's this dream that i always hold to believe

    I wanna go upon a mountain
    And sing my love and sing my love
    I wanna sing it high, sing it down low
    Then i'm gonna know how long it's gonna last
    Then i'm gonna know how long it's gonna last

    Well you know your moses, oh lord he lost his way
    Ah, and your jesus don't remember the words
    Well then i guess it's just you and me brother
    All alone in this cold world
    All alone in this cold world

    Ah, you gotta go upon a mountain
    And learn to sing your love, learn to sing your love
    You know i can sing it high, sing it down low
    Then we gonna know how long it's gonna last
    Then we gonna know how long it's gonna last

    Hard rain, sweet rain, fall a little while longer
    Wash down the city skies
    Lord bring the streets alive
    Make it like it was long before i was born
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  4. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    A reprise of what Lorca entails...as move into side two:

    [​IMG]


    Lorca is a 1970 album by singer-songwriter Tim Buckley, his fifth since his debut in 1966. It was named after Spanish poet Federico Garcia Lorca,[2] and was recorded simultaneously with Blue Afternoon, though notably different in style. It was one of Buckley's two avant-garde albums, and explored some sounds and ideas he had not previously used. Also importantly, it was an attempt to break away from more traditional and prevalent pop music songwriting styles, such as the verse/chorus binary form, that Buckley had explored in the earlier parts of his career.[3]

    Lorca is a move away from traditional pop music forms towards a free-form mix of jazz, avant-garde and folk.[3] Musically, Buckley uses the lack of a constant rhythm section to drive the songs forward with his voice. Many songs make use of a chromatic scale which makes them stand in stark contrast to Buckley's earlier melodic works. The lyrics of Lorca also represent a departure from his previous traditional pop-music writing, instead Buckley uses a more abstract descriptive style, avoiding direct narratives and standard song themes. This is a reflection of the poetry, such as the works of poet Federico García Lorca, that Buckley and guitarist Lee Underwood were reading at the time.[4] The album's opener and title track is a much less guitar-based song, something in contrast to Buckley's previous works, and this would be a theme Buckley would explore further in his later avant-garde works.

    According to Larry Beckett, his songwriting partner from Tim Buckley and Goodbye and Hello, he was purposely trying to alienate fans at this point. Buckley described it as an album that, "To this day, you can't put...on at a party without stopping things; it doesn't fit in."[citation needed]

    Buckley describes the second track as a "real advance," and that "It deals with a ballad in a totally personal, physical presentation... It has to be done slowly; it has to take five or six minutes; it has to be a movement. It has to hold you there and make you aware that someone is telling you something about himself in the dark."[3]

    The album was written during a very prolific time for Buckley as he recorded and released four albums within a space of less than two years. Two of the albums, Blue Afternoon and Lorca were recorded in the space of a single month.[3] Buckley completed these albums around the same time as an obligation to Warner Bros. Records, and also separately, Elektra Records owner Jac Holzman. Holzman, responsible for signing the artist, was in the process of selling the company and Buckley wanted to fulfil his contract in the time before Holzman's departure. -wiki
     
  5. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    From Live At The Troubadour

    I had A Talk With My Woman...
    is this the same (edited) version used on Lorca? Sounds so much the same.
    Even down to the opening "Alright....hmmmmm hmmmm", sans the intro by Tim.


     
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  6. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    Hmmm....this is deferent indeed:
    Venice Mating Call has one that is a full minute longer....a different live version it seems?
    From where? A slower live reading. Really nice.


    I Had A Talk With My Woman
     
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  7. The Lorca version of this fades out after “you know I wanna walk around’ at the 6 minute mark and omits the whistling outro. Definitely the same performance.
     
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  8. gazatthebop

    gazatthebop Forum Resident

    Location:
    manchester
    I knew Lorca was my favourite album before i'd even heard it. Its my favourite cover and i like long songs. It was also the last one of Tim's 9 album i found. Impossible to find in the UK from the mid-1970's. It finally got a USA reissue in 1980.
    Blue Afternoon is a very close second but i'm not that keen on "The Train" and the whole album sounds a bit muffled, i'd have liked a cleaner sound
     
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  9. mameyama

    mameyama Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Wiltshire, UK
    The Troubadour Concerts & Lorca?

    It was very rare for Tim's concerts to be professionally recorded. I wonder why these 2 nights at the Troubadour were? Could it be that Tim planned to use material from these concerts on his upcoming album, Lorca? If that's the case, then we can thank Lorca for the near 4 hours of material we now have from the Troubadour.

    And why use only 2 tracks from the Troubadour on Lorca? Maybe because most of the cuts were too long and free-form.

    Anyway, the Troubadour concerts show Tim had moved on quickly. Of the approx. 20 songs he played on Live In London less than 11 months previously, only 1 made it to the Troubadour- Buzzin' Fly. In his book, Lee Underwood expresses dissatisfaction with the Troubadour performances, but I think they are fine indeed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  10. mameyama

    mameyama Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Wiltshire, UK
    I Had A Talk With My Woman

    Lovely, lovely song.

    We now have 3 versions of I Had A Talk With My Woman from the Troubadour (the version on Lorca being merely a curtailed, and slightly slowed version of the Live At The Troubadour version- a real shame to lose the whistling).

    All 3 versions are very similar, which is unusual for Tim- all about the same length, all with the whistling outro, almost identical lyrically and atmospherically. Makes me think he knew this song would be destined for Lorca and he wanted to get it right?

    Anyway, does anyone have a preferred version? I like the one on Venice Mating Call the best.
     
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  11. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    Venice Mating Call is certainly a great one and I agree.
     
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  12. gazatthebop

    gazatthebop Forum Resident

    Location:
    manchester
    Wasn't Lorca cobbled together from whatever was left from other projects? He had already moved to Warner Bros and issued Blue Afternoon whilst still owing Elektra one more album
     
  13. Blue Afternoon was comprised of older songs he had lying around. Lorca was a bold new step.
     
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  14. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    Old songs written in the past or newly composed, Blue Afternoon and Lorca tracks were all recorded during short span of time in a series of sessions in 1969 (in studio and live)....even the live Lorca side two tracks were from around the same time (Troubadour etc.). Tim must have felt that Lorca's live tracks reflected the fresh spirit of how he wanted those songs to come across, or he would have likely recorded them anew, in studio.


    All represent what Tim was into and playing in 1969, whether he was finally recording older unrecorded songs with a fresh vision or completely new ones the reflect his new free form avant-garde vision. Either way Tim was throwing off all conventions expected from a pop star.
     
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  15. gazatthebop

    gazatthebop Forum Resident

    Location:
    manchester
    wouldn't it have made more sense to give Blue Afternnon to Elektra and Lorca to Straight Records, maybe he did and they rejected it!
     
  16. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    Hope you all had a warm safe holiday....time to indulge on some more great stuff.

    track 4) Driftin'

    The last two tracks are seamless so I will post them both
    for your listening pleasure and comments.
    Love them! Wonderful live tracks.



    When there's wine in your belly
    Love rhythm's on your tongue
    For you are a woman
    And each man has been too young


    But for me you were a lover
    Gently under your cover
    Your sheet reeks of odours


    Oh i came here to hold and be held for a while

    I've been drifting like a dream out on the sea
    I've been drifting in between you and me
    Everytime i think about you
    I can't remember what i said or did
    Was right or wrong, you know i just don't remember
    All i wanna be is what you mean to me
    All i wanna be is what you mean to me


    Late last night as i dreamed in dizzy sunlight
    I thought i heard your bare feet up the stairs
    Just like a fool, just like a fool
    I've been drifting
    Like a dream out on the sea
    I've been drifting in between what used to be


     
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  17. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    The closing track...side two is so fine. What a genius idea to use what Tim
    obviously felt were great live performances,
    or he would have re-recorded them in studio.

    So fine.

    track 5) Nobody Walkin'



    I left my baby standing in the backdoor crying
    I left my baby standing in the backdoor crying
    She said "you got a home as long as i got mine"
    She said "you got a home as long as i got mine"

    And nobody walking, nobody talking
    Ever pay the price i owe her
    Ah, there ain't nobody living, nobody giving
    Ever pay the price i owe her

    But sometimes you gotta turn your back
    Ah, sometimes you gotta turn your back
    Just to show that little girl
    That there is something she's gonna lack
    Just to show that little girl
    There's something more that you desire

    Nobody walking nobody talking
    Ever pay the price
    Nobody living, anybody giving
    Ever pay the price i owe her

    I don't need it to rain
    I don't need it to rain
    I don't need it to rain
    Oh to rain

    Well i know you've been turning tricks honey
    Up and down the avenue
    And i've been trying to tease you
    Oh, just to see what you'd do
    I don't need it to rain
    I don't need it to rain
    No more

    When that storm comes raining down
    When that storm comes raining down
    There ain't gonna be nobody, honey
    Oh to keep you warm
    Ain't gonna be nobody mama here to keep you warm
    No more

    Ah there ain't nobody walking nobody talking
    Ever pay the price not for you honey
    There ain't nobody living nobody giving
    Ever pay the price i owe
    Not to rain not to rain not to rain
    Mama not to rain

     
  18. mameyama

    mameyama Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Wiltshire, UK
    Driftin'

    The mysterious Driftin'. For me the most instant track on the album.

    The lyric:
    "Your sheet reeks of odours"
    I can't hear it as anything but:
    "Your sheet reeks of others"
    What do you think?

    We now have 3 released mixes of the same performance (Lorca (1970); Live at the Troubadour (1994); and Venice Mating Call (2017)). Again I like the natural-speed, clearer sounding one on VMC best- what an incredible release VMC has been. Anyone else have a preference of the 3 mixes?

    There is also a second version of Driftin' from the Troubadour released on Greetings From West Hollywood (2017). Its lyrically quite different to the Lorca/LATT/VMC version. Its worth hearing, but lacks the flow, and atmosphere, of the version chosen for Lorca.
     
  19. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    I agree about the lyrics...the lyrics we get from various online sources are mostly supplied by anyone who wants to add them.
    And are often incorrect!

    Love it too.
     
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  20. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    From Venice Mating Call....Driftin'

    Love it too
     
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  21. mameyama

    mameyama Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Wiltshire, UK
    Nobody Walkin'

    Fairly sure this is a studio version. Based on the following:

    1. 3 versions of "Nobody Walkin'" have been released from the Troubadour (on LATT; VMC;& GFWH)- none of them correspond to the version on Lorca.

    2. Its sonically very different to the 2 preceding tracks on Lorca (and also the 3 versions of Nobody Walkin' from the Troubadour)- much cleaner and sharper sounding; compare the sound of the bass and congas to the 3 versions from the Troubadour- completely different.

    3. The Lorca version has another song inserted into the middle of it- "I Don't Need It To Rain". Again there are 3 versions of "I Don't Need It To Rain" from the Troubadour and none of them correspond to the version inserted into" Nobody Walkin'" on Lorca. Additionally, all 3 versions of "I Don't Need It To Rain" from the Troubadour are slow-paced, not at all like the fast version incorporated into "Nobody Walkin'" on Lorca.

    What do others think? Cheers
     
  22. mameyama

    mameyama Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Wiltshire, UK
    I got that wrong. Tim also produced Starsailor. Herb Cohen was the Executive Producer- whatever that involved.
     
  23. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing Thread Starter

    Location:
    MidCoast...Maine
    I agree it is unique...I only go by what I've read. That all of side two is live. I know Tim had all the audience applause and noise removed, and even certain instruments removed for the Lorca live tracks, with various edits and and additions...at least that is what I've read. And altered tape speeds. If so, a stellar job. That endeavor can often end up as a botched and butchered monster. Side two in any event, is a masterpiece.
     
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  24. mameyama

    mameyama Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Wiltshire, UK
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  25. mameyama

    mameyama Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Wiltshire, UK
    Thanks for that- you have summed it up nicely- what really matters is the listening experience and its a great one.

    I spent 3 or 4 hours yesterday listening to side 2 of Lorca, the 3 versions of Nobody Walkin' from the Troubadour and the 3 versions of I Dont Need It To Rain. Sounds obsessive, but to me it was an enjoyable piece of detective work- I love the Troubadour concerts. Either Nobody Walkin' on Lorca is a studio cut; or there is more material out there from the Troubadour which may one day see the light of day. Whichever, Lorca remains a wonderful enigma.
     

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