Time Travelling on the Planet of the Apes - my definitive timelines of the original POTA series

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Timeline Man, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    Hello guys,

    If you believe that Cornelius, Zira and CAESAR altered the past in 1973 and created a better Planet of the Apes (as seen in BATTLE), then these are my very detailed and well-thought POTA timelines based on the revisable timeline concept:


    TIME TRAVELLING ON THE PLANET OF THE APES
    potaplanetoftheapes.blogspot.com


    You can also find detailed timelines for Burton's 2001 reimagining and the original 1974 TV series as well.

    Check my special files on all Planet of the Apes existing in movies and fiction.


    More to come! In the while, enjoy. Thanks.
     
    AndrewK, 905, mikeyt and 4 others like this.
  2. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    Never saw this thread -would of posted.

    Remember these films were the first of their kind and at times the writing can be a bit convoluted.
    The going back in time no matter how implausible was a stroke of inspiration by Paul Dehn. We as young audience goers didn't dissect the science but just enjoyed the premise. It's a very different world now, explain this explain that blah blah...

    The plague that destroyed dogs and cats was going to happen ( Parvo in the late 1980's- 90's killed thousands of dogs and cats and we thought "oh no, it's happening for real" ) regardless of Zira and Cornelius ' exploits, they just hastened the Apes rise to power. Mankind was going to destroy itself and between the virus and nuclear fallout Apes rise to prominence.
    To try to make a coherent timeline is foolhardy but fun. Conquest was to be the final of the Apes films in its original form with the violent prologue and bloody revolt which is on the blu-ray though in a truncated form without the pre credit sequence.

    It's all very frustrating to me and other Apes fans who were their at the first screenings from 1968 to 1974 Go Ape festivals.
    Films are much more sophisticated now so at times the Apes movies are anachronistic but for what they were they were game changes for Sci-fi without the need for a libretto to explain what's on the screen. They were not 'B' movies but were 'A' movies treated as such since fiction movies were still considered kids fare other than "2001" and some few others.
    It was the wild West back then and soon Science Fiction started to thrive and it never stopped .
    Must go be back later, John.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
  3. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    By the way:

    When you watched the first movie for the very first time, did you assume that the Apes were "humanoid" because they had been altered by alien evolution (before discovering that it was Planet Earth) or nuclear mutation (after you discovered that it was Planet Earth all the time)?
    ESCAPE retconned that by assuming that "Humanoid Apes" were the common norm in the POTA universe.

    Well, in ESCAPE people are just surprised that they can talk. Their appearance is not considered as unusual by anyone.
    As simple as that, no human is amazed or shocked by the appearance of the "Humanoid Apes" in either 1973 and 1991. They are considered as being "normal apes" in that universe. Anyway, ESCAPE features real chimps (not actors in make-up) at the very end, thus we can firmly say that: humanoid apes are a simian species "normally" existing in that universe along with what we consider "normal apes".

    Cornelius, Zira and Dr. Milo not only can talk, but they got an "humanoid" appearance: they are bigger, taller and can walk normally --- they look like bigfoots.
    In CONQUEST, you can see hundreds of "Humanoid Apes", and they are considered "normal apes" in that universe.
     
    apesfan likes this.
  4. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    Nuclear mutation. In Conquest the virus started the ape evolution and nuclear fallout finished the job. Posting on my oled tv must go on my tablet ths blows, take care, John M...
     
  5. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    Do you think it was always an intention of the writers of the first movie to place the Nuclear War at the end of the 20th century? For a moment, just forget the sequels... do you think there's enough evidence in the first movie to think that the Nuclear War occurred at the end of the 20th century and not FURTHER, in subsequent centuries?
     
  6. They’re just movies. Made up as they went along without Dehn having a true vision until the third film. The last film had quite a bit of rewriting done by the duo who wrote “I am Legend”. I’m not sure how much of Dehn’s original script survived. I will have to check on books.
     
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  7. The ‘new’ trilogy explains it well.
     
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  8. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI
    Are you talking about the baby chimp (baby Milo)? Even that little guy was made up to look more like his parents-he's not a straight, every day "normal ape" compared to the baby that was gunned down by Hasslein.

    You know why that is don't you? It's because they used human being actors, thus they had longer legs, shorter arms, stood taller and more erect than an actual chimpanzee, etc...

    By the way, I always thought it was a mistake in ESCAPE to be so cheap with the budget that they didn't make up an actor to play Bobo (the zoo gorilla) and Heloise (the circus mother chimp)... Having a consistent look among the apes would have been better all around...

    And it's just plain dumb in CONQUEST when Caesar infiltrates that cargo cage full of Orangutans that they look like some cheap version of a made up '"normal ape" Orangutan, and then when they (and Caesar) are being processed, all of a sudden they look like 'Planet of the Apes' Orangutans.
     
  9. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Thank god somebody said this.
     
  10. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    I know that they are just movies, so what? We're having fun with discussing them. It's cool and it's part of the cinematic experience. Just avoid movie threads if you hate it.
    Paul Dehn rewrote 90% of the dialogues and the ending.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
  11. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    Sarcasm is cheap and useless here. Yes, they are actors, what a surprise! There's nothing wrong about talking of the "in-universe" explanations and deductions of a given movie.

    I addressed the point about the Orangutans in CONQUEST on my POTA website. They were "intermediary" forms, a variant of the "normal" Humanoid Orangutan of the POTA universe.
    By the way, I loved those intermediary Orangutans, they looked great.
     
    905 likes this.
  12. I don’t hate it not at all but I think it’s difficult to work out a timeline for something that didn’t. There’s some debate about Battle as the Writer’s Guild rejected his claim to get screenwriting credit. I don’t doubt that Dehn contributed but the Carringtons got sole credit on the project. Still, it is the worst of the bunch. I think that Battle, despite some issues, is f sr superior film with at least some cool ideas that Dehn and Mort Abraham’s contributed to. If they had given Post a bigger budget to work with I think the results would be better. Post had some great ideas that had to be scaled back.
     
  13. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    I don't think Mort Abrahams had anything to do with Escape, Conquest, and Battle. Arthur Jacobs let him go after his arrogance on Beneath. Frank Capra Jr. became Apjacs production partner.
    Battle had a really inventive Mad Max type script but Paul Dehns health deteriorated and the Corringtons had their ham fisted ideas which Jacobs approved for Battle.
    The extended version on blue ray at least makes the film palatable with the origin of how the New York mutants got their ideology, love of their creator (A bomb) and fashion sense;).​
    Conquest as I post frequently really could of been something but in those days sequels got less and less money unlike today. 20th Fox was always fighting debt, the Zanucks infighting and the debacle of 1963's Cleopatra, along with later films like "Star" and "Hello Dolly" still loomed large over their heads.

    They made a ton of $$$$$ with Apes. They ushered in the merchandise and exploitation era and that gave them the "courage" to help get " Star Wars" made and movie production and publicity changed immensely since then. John M.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
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  14. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI
    I'm thinking you meant to say BENEATH? That's the one ted Post directed...

    J. Lee Thompson was the director of BATTLE.
     
  15. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI
    They didn't look good to me at all... They're imported from Borneo, arrive in the USA and come out of the cargo cage looking like an ape that wouldn't have been out of place on something like 'Gilligan's Island' and all of a sudden after they've been processed (along with Caesar,) they look like the forefathers of Dr. Zaius: It makes no sense.
     
  16. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    You're talking about two different sequences. They were not supposed to be the very same Apes. Some of them were "Normal Humanoid", some of them were "Intermediary". Occam's razor.
     
  17. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    The first three POTA movies were aired on American TV in 1973, and they were huge hits in terms of ratings and resonance.
    Wondering when did they air CONQUEST and BATTLE on TV for the very first time... do you know? I can't find this info anywhere.
    Too bad the 1974 TV series was a failure.
     
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  18. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Even when I happen to catch Eric Braeden on The Young and the Restless soap opera, I say under my breath why did you have to kill baby Milo.

    Eric Braeden - Wikipedia

    He went by Hans Gudegast when he was on The Rat Patrol series.
     
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  19. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    The following year 1974 in the spring Conquest and Battle were shown. A month or so later the "Go Ape" summer festival started. It was a wild year for Apes fans.

    The ratings for Pota 68 were astronomical for the times so a TV series was commissioned something that Arthur Jacobs had wanted to do since 1971.

    After Planet was shown on CBS their was a very well put together documentary shown immediately after about 10-10:30 p.m.est and never was it out on any kind of video format. It's a mix of much of what is on the later blue rays but for us nuts it was revelatory.

    I also remember that Beneaths showing in the Fall was delayed a half hour cause President Nixon had some B.S. to say. As a 13 year old I was furious.

    The TV series was a total letdown. Most of us wanted something smarter, political and we'll we got this. Oh well. Take care, John M.
     
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  20. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI

    'They weren't supposed to be the very same apes'-says you and Patrick Michael Tilton who wrote the theory on your website that I'm sure you're referring to when you said this... Everything during that whole segment of those apes being processed was supposed to be the same apes from the shipment Caesar infiltrated. If not, why keep on mentioning 'Shipment 5-0-7, I for Indonesia, ex-Borneo' during that segment? They keep saying the shipment's number because they're supposed to be showing what the apes go thru during their arrival and processing.

    And, you're probably going to think I am bull*******g here when I say this, but I promise you, I am *not*: Last night, I popped in my VHS videotape of CONQUEST and watched the part where Caesar infiltrates the Orangutan shipment: There *is* a standard 'Planet of the Apes' looking Orangutan in the cage... You have to look closely, and you have to keep looking at the one on the left of your screen, but you'll see the one I'm talking about... Like I said, I was watching on VHS, so I can't look at a DVD clock/counter to tell you when you can see the images, but I assure you a POTA Orangutan is in there... If you can't see that there's one that's (as you call them) a 'humanoid ape', just watch the screen just as the cage scene is about to end (just before the handlers put the outer box cover on the cage) when the Orangutans are kind of looking Caesar over/sizing him up, if you look at the Orangutan head that's closest to the bars, you can see that there's an Orang with a POTA Orang wig on, it's all combed flat and everything, so you'll be able to differentiate between that one and the other 'Intermediary' Orangs as you call them. The hairstyle alone will tell you it's not a "Gilligan's Island" refugee like the other Orangutans. I think the standard POTA Orangutan they show being processed with Caesar is probably that same one that was in the cage with the other Orangutans in that bunch.

    I've watched CONQUEST many times throughout the years, but until last night really never paid much attention to really looking over to the orange blobs of fur in the cargo cage to notice the one POTA ape in the bunch (besides Caesar). I mean I noticed it *afterward*, when they're being processed thru Ape Management, but never really while they were in the cage outside at the docks. The cheapness and limited budgetary constraints of that segment blinded me I guess :) ... But, then again, there was a guy on a different website I look at who claimed he has watched CONQUEST "literally hundreds of times" and he never noticed that the slave apes shoes match the colors of their jumpsuits. So, I guess it's still possible to notice things in a film I've watched a number of times thru the years.
     
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  21. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI
    ^^^ PS: I wish I had a modern computer so I could do a screen grab or two to back up what I'm saying, but I assure you it's there... It may take a few (close) viewings of that part for someone to notice, but like I said, there's a POTA Orangutan in with the other caged Orangs.
     
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  22. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    Yeah, APEMANIA was running rampant in America in 1973-1974. I hope that CONQUEST and BATTLE had big ratings when they aired them on TV. Do you know anything about it?
    The 1974 TV series had some resonance, it's a cult show by now...
     
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  23. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    Patrick M. Tilton knew what he was talking about.
    Glad you spotted that, Grand.
     
  24. My wife , a Y-R fan . doesn't believe this.
     
  25. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    She doesn't believe Braeden went by two names? Or that his character killed baby Milo on Escape From The Planet Of The Apes?

    Or are you saying she said that as an expression of amazement?
     

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