Time Travelling on the Planet of the Apes - my definitive timelines of the original POTA series

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Timeline Man, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    As I already remarked, we live in a democracy. Star Trek fans and Star Wars fans love to explain aspects not fully explained/exposed, or "flesh out" those fictional universes which they love to nth degree. POTA is not inferior to those two franchises, to me the movies are masterpieces.
    So I'm just deducing concepts according to what I see on-screen. It's not a crime LOL. I succeeded in creating a detailed narrative chronological prospect covering the theory of the Alterable Timeline in the POTA Movies, as well as other unusual aspects of the 5 movies. That's just my fun. I'm free to do that, and I created this thread to talk with fans who wanted to discuss upon my timelines and/or other theories.
    If you don't wanna discuss about my website or the theories, but only about the movies from a technical/cinematic standpoint, then this is the wrong thread for you. And I have nothing personal against you, you're a good boy.
     
  2. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    :laughup::confused:.
    C'mon, this is the reason that I postulated in one of my first remarks.
    With fanboy sites and your very well thoughtful timeline this slightly contentious back and forth is inevitably to happen. Shut off comments and keep these sites and threads as vanity project's then.
    I know you want to engage so live with it - I had to take a lot of S$%$t on the pota goatly yahoo site because I felt facts, scripts, music, cinematography, history, and getting Proper Transfers of Apes films both visually and audibly are much more important than arguing about what type of hairstyle someone has. Thats Just Me.

    If you want us to leave this discourse because it doesn't follow your arbitrary rules thats fine.
    Your site is very good and thoughtful. Posting on an all encompassing site like this one, Steve Hoffman.tv, our remarks are par for the course. Go to any Beatle thread here-Wow!

    I like fan ideas but to me once a post takes a left turn the pile on begins. Theirs enough nuts in this world today and I don't have to engage and convince anyone of my more "practical" point of views.
    This is really your argument or where your coming from so in theory we agree. Oh and Star War fans are psychotic .:love: John M.
     
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  3. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    Im replying to my own post but;

    There was a film teacher at my college back in 1978-79 and we got to talking filmmaking techniques and he posited that the crew of Taylors crash trek across from 'screen left to screen right' was unusual.
    This supposedly Signifies going from a free (freedom) independent lefty prospective to a more ruthless (enslaved,killed) right leaning one when they get very close to and including the Hunt.
    The teacher showed me or ruminated about how films with the 'talent' treking usually are filmed going from screen right to left.
    Schafners detailed first 25 minutes might explain this or all this is intellectual nonsense.
    Ofcourse after all these years I don't see any rule in in this weather in books on cinematography or in films themselves.
    Back then when every filmmaker was doing something new its possible that Schafner/ Shamroy were trying to Show us something political, though Schafner and Shamroy were Old School so I'm not sure if this trope applies, but its their on the screen.
     
  4. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI

    That film teacher sounds like he would have enjoyed Eric Greene's book, which itself reads like a college thesis.
     
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  5. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI



    I'm curious, which of the fanzines published it? I'm guessing the one by Terry Hoknes from Canada?
     
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  6. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"


    Its coming back to me from another source that also wrote about the left/right phenomenon.
    I will look through my "The Perfect Vision " magazines right now from the 1990's. One of the few mags that I saved some issue's. I think it was about the Planet of the Apes laserdisc release, with the blue cornfields.

    Jeez, I have that issue and was written by our late great friend Rory Monteith- (harastis). He past away in 2017 iirc.
    The Perfect Vision issue 11, volume 3, page 115-Fall 1991.

    Yeah thats how I met him and then latter on the Hunter Goatly pota site Yahoo forums. We fought constantly on that site and I got banned for a while by the moderator James.
    He wanted us to discuss toys and fan fiction it seems to me, I wanted to use the site to make some noise to get better transfers.

    I said to Rory your theory has merit my college professor said the same thing.- Fascinating. I miss him much - be content wherever you are my friend... John M.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
  7. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI

    Regarding Rory, yes, he was quite knowledgeable, especially about the first film, which was his favorite of them. I think he actually passed in 2019: I say that because I was without a working computer at the time, but kept my AOL account going anyway-When I was finally able to get back online and read my emails, there was an email from James to me and most of the other 'regulars' on the pota message board telling what happened to Rory. Do you own the book "Location! Location! Location!" by John O'Callaghan? He has a nice 'In Memoriam' page dedicated to Rory.

    If you don't own John's book, it should still be available thru his website PITHIKOS ENTERTAINMENT
     
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  8. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    I have his book, cd and autograph ..
    Will go back to the book.
    As a piano player his breakdown of Goldsmiths score is fantastic but you need be a music reader to fully enjoy it.


    When Rory passed that great transfer of "2001" was released some months later and he would of loved it. That was his other love film. Damn. John M.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
  9. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI

    The 'Location! Location! Location!' book looks very good as far as covering the filming locations of PLANET: I do own it, but have to say that as of now (two years later!) I still haven't really found the time to read it, though I know I should. Then again, I still haven't read my copy of 'The Making of Planet of the Apes' by J.W. Rinzler either, but I have paged thru the book and looked at some of the photos. I really do need to set aside more reading time!

    His other one, 'Simians and Serialism' (the original and the revised one) I have read, but have to say that other than the parts about making the film and how the music went with it, the rest of it was lost on me: All the stuff about the technical aspects of the music went over my head. I love the PLANET score, but getting into which notes were played and all the rest doesn't really grab me, probably because I'm not a musician of any type.

    I own John O'Callaghan's re-recorded PLANET soundtrack too.
     
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  10. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    LMAO. Oh God.

    1- Thank you so much for your kind words about my website.
    There's already another thread dedicated to the transfer and the technicals of the POTA movies, and I deeply care for those arguments too. But this is a new thread, focused on other aspects of the POTA saga. That's it.

    2- We're here to discuss about the timelines and the "in-universe" aspects of the POTA universe.

    So you're welcome. I hope you will enjoy the "in-universe" discussions of this thread.
     
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  11. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    Yes I remember so. A great and carefully-compiled fanzine. I don't remember vey well (time flies...), but there may be even another fanzine which issued my timelines.

    My only complaint is that I refined the English of the timelines only years later their publication on Terry's fanzine. I'm Italian, not American.

    Thank God, I created the website in 2018 and had the chance to revisit the timelines and improve their English as well as some concepts.
     
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  12. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    Just to clear up. Dr. Morrison my writing for film professor who read my final draft documentary of the Pota saga for school at NYT Westbury, gave me my best grades in college. If it wasn't for his faith in me I probably couldn't of matriculated and my grade point would of been below a 3 pt.

    Eric Green I saw at some book store around 1997 and didn't say anything to him, idiot. Got both the soft and hardcover versions.
    The left/right screen is definitely an Eric like idea.

    O'Callaghan 's CD, first book Simians Serialism I have along with his autograph. I was taught Sax, Oboe, play piano and love music theory and enjoyed his correct analysis of Serial music which goes back to the early 1910's .

    Melody, most melodic music styles were tossed out the window by many classical artist like Schoenberg, Mahler, and Ives. This style in my view is the basis of all that creepy, dissonant, music that filled TV shows in the 1960's and films from the 1930's- 1970's. You know, Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, One Step Beyond, The Invaders, and all those great made for TV films during the Ape years.
    Ofcourse most weren't Serial box 12 tone style with stringent rules but the "feel" permiated all film and TV for years.

    Rory died in May 2018. Nuff said.

    I had nothing better to do so I'd write this totally Selfish post.
    Have a good holiday All, John M.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
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  13. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI
    I didn't think much of Eric's book- I remember when I first heard about it, I went to a book store to have it special ordered, but it never came in. I was able to get it thru another store and after reading some of it I was like "I waited all that time to get this book, and this is what it is?!?

    I also didn't think too much of him on the Behind/POTA special- I was especially annoyed when he says something like "He's shot, he's burned, he's almost castrated at one point-Charlton Heston is not having his best day on the Planet of the Apes." They difinitley could have found someone better to do whatever it was he was doing on that special... If they wanted someone who had a book out, I don't think Joe Russo's book was out at that point, but he had tons of research done by that point & I think he would have been a better choice.
     
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  14. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI
    I seen it mentioned in the 4K thread on POTA that some of the people thought maybe that thread and this thread should be combined-Personally I wouldn't mind if that happened, but if they stay separate, that's fine too...

    Since you started this thread, and if you want it combined with the other one, it'd probably be best if you asked the moderators to combine the two, since this thread is yours. But again, maybe you just want to keep them as different threads, and I'd get that too.
     
  15. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    I went to Joe Russo's apartment back in ,jeez about 1988 when he was trying to get his book off the ground.
    I was his pen pal back in 1973-74 from a personal ad in Famous Monsters of Filmland, with Yul Brenner from Westworld on the cover. Bought much of my Ape stuff there and got a VHS tape from him of NSS promos of Planet, Beneath and trailers. It cost me $$$.
    Got his book. +
    Eric Greens book I like but its definitely an acquired taste.
    The Softcover version update has a photo of the Ape that was shot in the pre title sequence in Conquest. Its a gorilla flat on his back in a crucified position. I thought it was to be a chimp but this is what it is unless the photo is misrepresented.

    The Brian Pendreigh book " Legend of the Planet of the Apes " I found entertaining and revelatory. It tells the truth about all the misconceptions about Apes, budgets, Beneath/ Goldsmith, Mort Abrahams and much more debunking the legend around the Apes films.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
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  16. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    Thats Me. I first proposed it -so.... do it. Timeline...Threads on Pota don't last so lets get them to pair up. John...

    Im sorry our friends demise was March 30th not May, no more about this:cry:
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
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  17. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    Honestly and definitely, I think that they must stay separate. They're vastly different, IMHO.
    Also, this is the only prominent thread "promoting" my work in the net in an effective manner. I'm proud of it.
     
  18. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    I understand. But Pota threads on a site like this run by and includes many people in the film and audio industry to me is the best place to explore Apes and at the same time get the software improvements the Pota films desperately need.
    I had conversations years ago with pros here who worked on almost every facet of Apes on video.
    Your thread sparked a fairly large response lets not squander it.
    Think of it politically to get Apes 1968-73 in the forefront again before bluray and 4 k goes the way of the DoeDoe.
    John M.
     
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  19. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    We can keep this thread separate and have those same video conversations here too. Do not worry.

    I must add that I deeply want the 1974 TV series transferred at 2K. They need to preserve it on HD format, absolutely.
     
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  20. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI

    I've never heard them, but down thru the years, I've always heard about Joe having watched BENEATH with Ted Post and ESCAPE with Don Taylor-Apparently Joe had tape recorded them while watching the films... Were you ever able to hear those tapes when you went to his place? I think they'd be cool to hear...
     
  21. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI

    I really think you should consider apesfan's words in post #168: What he says is true, APES threads here are far and few in between, so having one good ongoing thread covering *all* aspects of APES would probably be the best thing. Your timeline will still get attention if it'd be in one combined thread.
     
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  22. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"


    He did play audio tapes but I forget what I heard.
    What he showed me is 99% on the blurays and dvds partially because of his 'bootlegs '. He had great knowledge of Apes and I asked him about my theories and so and so and was proven right.
    I also realized through my history and my own quest I really never learned anything new. Vindication is wonderful - your not a fool or conspiracist.
    Those National. Screen Service mini movies are great. There on Youtube and Maybe the blurays/dvds I forget. The tv trailers for apes are incomplete. The Beneath and Conquest ones I dont think are on the discs though are again on Youtube.
    The CONQUEST trailers with the flamethrower vindicated my editing conundrum even though my uncle did describe it.
    Writing and eating not a good combo be right back. John..
     
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  23. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    Oh my feelings.
    Ive been saying the same thing for years but nevertheless love them.
    Thanks @Vidiot for your work and histories of the travesty that are the 1977-(1992 laserdisc) video releases, no not blaming your work just the crap you had to work with. John M.
     
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  24. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI

    I've seen both of them, and like the additional/alternate footage included in them. I know of someone that made an 'extended cut' of PLANET by inserting the unused footage from the mini-movies into the PLANET film. It turned out pretty good for what he had to work with.

    I really wish the entire Ursus speech had been left intact in BENEATH.
     
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  25. Timeline Man

    Timeline Man Time Traveler from Naples Thread Starter

    Location:
    Naples
    I think that we all agree that the alternate cut of CONQUEST is not canon.
    Now, my question is: in your view, what version of BATTLE is canonical for you and why?
     

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