Timewatching: The Divine Comedy Album-by-album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by LivingForever, Nov 5, 2020.

  1. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Yup, but that's because a love song isn't necessarily a perfect song. :)
     
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  2. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    That should say live version, not live album, obviously. Much as I'd love a full Regeneration-era live album.
     
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  3. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Couple of leftover response to people's thoughts on "Perfect Lovesong"

    Everything's subjective but I can't let this pass without some raised eyebrows. :eek: This is good but it's no "God Only Knows".

    I laughed at this bit but I can't really agree. I've heard so many BBs pastiches and parodies over the years that this sounds comparatively restrained.

    Regarding the video, I don't think I've ever seen it and now I know not to! Thanks for the warnings!
     
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  4. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    I'd consider myself a big Beach Boys fan but, to be fair, huge swathes of their material is also no "God Only Knows"!
     
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  5. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Yeah, but if there's any Beach Boys album in particular "Perfect Lovesong" is musically referencing it's Pet Sounds, and if there's any song in particular it's "God Only Knows".
     
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  6. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    Maybe. I've never really seen the link, to be honest - I love them both, but they've never felt very similar to me.
     
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  7. The Booklover

    The Booklover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    I hadn't noticed either. That makes both titles even better.

    That's amusing.

    I didn't know that either and can't comment on the merits of the director since I never got round to actually watch any of his films.

    That's a great quote and I totally understand where he's coming from.

    Sampling a ping-pong ball has been done before on "Pipeline" from Depeche Mode's Construction Time Again, the title of which connects to its predecessor A Broken Frame in the same way as Regeneration does to Fin De Siècle.

    I'm not surprised given the way songs with a similar atmosphere and leaning too close to rock have fared in this thread so far.

    Amen to all of the above.

    I'm not a fan of swearwords for the sake of provocation either, but I feel that it's completely earned here and works perfectly. In contrast, I find the delivery of the much lauded "I don’t really care!" in "Through A Long And Sleepless Night" much more pretentious even though it doesn't even include a swear word.

    Again, amen to all of the above. Thanks to @Vagabone and @jon-senior for already perfectly encapsulating what I love about this song.

    Without a doubt, my first 5 from this album.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  8. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    I agree with you. I'm sure there are some similarities, but if one takes a look at artists that truly pay homage to the Beach Boys (High Llamas, Saint Etienne, Explorers' Club) this isn't really in the same league.
     
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  9. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Wow. Honestly I had this one down as the song that everyone was going to rip to pieces.

    A couple of people said they had zero scores to give out, and I would have put money on this being the song to give them to.

    This has confused me so much that I need to go away and consider my own reaction to this song before I post, I think!

    (edit - now preparing myself for something I absolutely love to get pulled apart again... ;) )
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  10. Hazey John II

    Hazey John II The lyrics are fine, there's no problem there

    Oh come on.
    [​IMG]
    As if we weren't already deep into "You are witnesses at the new birth of The Divine Comedy, Mark 2. Hope you enjoy our new direction" territory!
     
  11. Hazey John II

    Hazey John II The lyrics are fine, there's no problem there

    Yep, agreed, better than I expected. And yes, the sinister, snaky bass makes it - Bryan once again quietly the MVP of the band, as many of us have noted. I like the assumptions getting thrown up and hanging in the air, the rising tension of the 'heart of darkness' bit, the closing in of the last verse where the guitar drops out. The almost-Frippertronics at the end of the live version are even better. An effective conjuring of inertia and dread - though I don't often want to hear it.

    The middle falls apart for me though. Partly the band's fault, as in this quote from Godrich via Neil: On several occasions he told us, 'the problem with you guys is you play too well and you're too musician-like. In many ways it's quite handy but sometimes it gets in the way of actual spontaneity.'

    But it also sounds like a production issue, like all the parts are recorded separately, they're not really playing off each other. Radiohead got more clinical with Godrich too, whereas Leckie's production on The Bends sounds a bit more live in the room. (Could be totally wrong about this though.)

    But regardless, it's a bit old hat - something like My Iron Lung is kind of the same thing, and Pulp and Blur are several years from their post-Britpop depression albums at this point. I'm not sure this does anything better than This Is Hardcore or, say, Caramel.

    And the lyric still puzzles me. This is, again, definitely about Neil, not a character - the religious concerns in the first verse, the writerly ones in the third. More self-doubt, more spikiness about his audience, more worries about getting old. But... had everybody gone? Aren't the band and his new wife right there? Why is he frightened of being alone? I don't really get it. The verses do work though. 3.5/5
     
  12. ericthegardener

    ericthegardener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    I overstated a bit for effect, and I've also heard tons of the various Beach Boys pastiches that nail the sound of their recordings, but I'd say that it just goes to show how much of the "pastiche-ing" is in the actual composition. Lots of the recorded sounds are different from the Beach Boys in Perfect Lovesong and yet it's still completely obvious who they are aping.
     
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  13. ericthegardener

    ericthegardener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Note to Self

    Probably my least favorite song on the album. I mostly hate the verses and it's incessant guitar riff. I like what I guess is sort of the chorus a bit better even though this is where the song is at it's most Radiohead-ish. The loud part doesn't bother me, I just don't find it convincing. I'll emphasize what I've said elsewhere in the thread: It's not the rock that I mind when Neil tries to rock out, it's that I'm just not buying it when he does.

    The third verse is a bit better since it lacks the guitar riff, but I have to say I'm not a fan of the bass line either. Sounds like someone playing a style that is new to them that they are not completely comfortable with. That kind of bass line needs to be completely in the pocket and I just don't feel it.

    2/5
     
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  14. Radiophonic_

    Radiophonic_ Electrosonic

    Location:
    Royal Oak MI
    "Note to Self": I think one thing this song demonstrates is that Neil is a pop singer, not a rock singer. During the bit where the song kicks into 'rawk' mode, he doesn't sound especially credible to me doing that kind of thing. Maybe it's because I'm too used to the Neil that has come before and since, but he has a voice, like it or not, that would be right at home in musical theater or classic pop. In my youth one of my favorite albums was Kilroy Was Here by Styx, which I'm sure kills some of my credibility as music critic, but I was only 12. It occurred to me recently that Neil has (or had in his early days) a voice like Dennis DeYoung, the main singer of that band: a very clean, pure sound perfectly suited to ballads and their poppier stuff (he even did a Broadway album post-Styx), but the harder songs, such as they were, were sung by other band members. Neil and DeYoung just have pop voices, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Which brings me round to today's track, which is not a zero from me either, but close. Musically, I find this really unappealing. That guitar lick aggravates me each time I hear it, and it's otherwise not a melody (such as there is) I care to listen to. I had seen Pi when it came out, and found it okay, from what I remember. I think the famous bit is the main character taking a power drill to his head to end his migraine pain (which my wife, a regular headache sufferer, said was the only part she identified with). Upon hearing this track originally, I thought "he's riffing on that?" But at least the song tries to kick itself up a notch with the heavy section, even if I don't much care for any of it. I give it a little credit for that, at least. 1/5
     
  15. rediffusion

    rediffusion Forum Resident

    Note to Self: 3.75
     
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  16. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Note to Self

    I feel like I showed my hand earlier but let me start by saying, I’m not saying this song is bad, it’s just that I don’t enjoy it.

    It’s not pleasurable for me to listen to - I find it dreary and uncomfortable and it brings me down. The repetitive “restate my assumptions” lyric, particularly, is like nails on a chalkboard for me, but perhaps that’s my OCD and perhaps this is the deliberate intention, now that I read @Radiophonic_ ’s post about the guy in the film drilling into his head to relieve his suffering... we are perhaps meant to suffer along with Neil as he clears out the thoughts that are bothering him.

    I will say that I love the loud “What the f*** is happening?” bit and I also don’t mind the outtro at all. It’s just, you know, the bulk of the song that does my head in ;)

    To be honest, this song probably soured me on the album on its first listen and gave me the impression that it’s full of dreary songs - listening again now I don’t think that’s quite true but this is the first of a few lumbering tracks which to me make it feel quite a chore to get through.

    1.5 (for the loud bit and the outtro)
     
  17. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    I must say, I’m intrigued to see how the album goes from hereon in. I expected most people to more or less enjoy the first 3 tracks - however from this song on I can imagine opinions being quite divided.

    There are a lot of slow, melancholy songs coming up, and to me half of them are achingly beautiful whilst the other half are unspeakably dull. Others may agree with this, but I will be extremely interested to see if we can agree which are which...!
     
  18. Dalav

    Dalav Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Yes, this exactly on the half and half.

    I too am curious as to where everyone falls and when those promised (threatened?) zeroes will finally reveal themselves!
     
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  19. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    On further reflection I think @jon-senior and @The Booklover are right about the f-word. It could work in context, if that while section felt a bit less tame and more emotional.

    Having given this a bit of thought, I think the 'I don't really care' bit in Through a Long and Sleepless Night works because the whole of Casanova requires the listener to buy into Neil's world, so by the time you get there the melodrama is well-established and its somehow believable in its context. The whole thing is theatrical in style. With this album, we remain in the real world, so the emotion and surprise of the 'what the ****' moment needs to feel real as well in order to be believable, and for me doesn't quite make it, perhaps due to what @Radiophonic_ wrote about pop/rock voices.

    I also quite like the bassline, the bloops during the second verse, and the low backing vocal/electronic(?) oohs after the 'alone' bit. But I still feel it's pretty carbon copy Radiohead of that time, so my score stands.

    I'm finding it tricky to get past my own memories of less happy times that listening to this album is dredging up. This combined with realising how unhappy/troubled Neil seems to have been at the time is really colouring how I see this one compared with the earlier albums!
    Nevertheless, there are two songs coming up that I really like.
    Interested to see where the zeroes will come in! :D
     
  20. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    We've made a few references to Neil not seeming at all happy on this album, something with which I completely agree. Now, consider this quote from a 1999 Hot Press interview:

    "Yeah, if you want to write lots of songs, really quickly, go on honeymoon. We took ourselves off to this marvellous place on the Pacific Mexican coast. The idea was to completely forget about music for a few weeks, but I ended up going to the market and trying to buy myself a guitar. The only sort they had, though, were crap tourist ones, so what I came home with was mostly lyrics. All of which means that I'm now sitting on about 20 songs which will make up the backbone of the new album."

    Ok, great, so Neil used some of his honeymoon to write 20 songs. Well, lyrics to 2o songs. Now imagine you're Neil's wife one evening after a day on the beach.

    “Honey, I’ve written a song! Wanna hear it? Ok..."

    "Into the heaaaaart of daaaaarkness
    Beyond the point of no return...
    What the f*** is happening
    Where’s everybody gone
    What the hell is going on?
    There is nothing as frightening as being alone...”

    And that’s just this one song, let’s not even get started on some of the others... ("I'm starting to wonder / what terrible blunder I've made..." etc etc)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  21. A Tea-Loving Dave

    A Tea-Loving Dave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northumberland, UK
    [​IMG]
     
  22. Dalav

    Dalav Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Note To Self

    I recall struggling with this one back in 2001. But I've made an effort over the past couple days to give it fair play and discover its worth. And it surprised me with elements to enjoy: its single-mindedness was at first off-putting and dreary, but then warranted attention. I became interested in Neil's assumptions, looking for clues to his mental state at the time. (Although he's warned us not to look for answers, I suppose that applies to life's larger issues, and not the inward-focused musings of this track.) I like his train of thought here, which is to say a train near derailing--the re-weighing of ideas, the questioning, the contradictions, and the meta understanding of the darkness all of it has led him. But his last line about songs needing listeners seems to be a hopeful outward-looking conclusion and a path from the isolation.

    Musically, the baseline works for me throughout, and the slightly eerie sustained strings/synth? notes of the background music from mid-track onward, evoke a similar sense of isolation heard in Timestretched, appropriate here as Neil sings of the fear of being alone. The WTF section seemed harsh at first, but I believe now it works nicely as a wake-up call and is a high point--and necessary to illuminate the extent of the darkness he feels.

    But ultimately, I can push the positives only so far before I reach the same conclusion as @LivingForever, that it's not quite an enjoyable enough track to linger longer on. And since I don't see myself as much of student of music, but rather someone looking for bits of beauty here and there, this one has a ceiling. Still, I definitely have more of an appreciation for it today than I used to.

    I am left with one question though....no "Sunday" restating of assumptions for Neil? A day of rest from...himself? ;)

    3.0/5
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  23. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    I've thought a lot about Thinking The Unthinkable, and I'll have plenty to say when we get to it, but I've never thought about it quite from that point of view and *yikes*!
     
  24. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Very interesting, I can’t say I’d thought of that before but it DOES make sense. After all, this is Neil going full circle - “I want to be in a rock band” just like in 1990... (of course; followed by “this is the last thing I want” just like in 1992 ;))
    That would have been great. Surely in your massive treasure trove of radio recordings, there’s one which nearly fits the bill, though?
    You won the thread today with that :D
    We have talked a little bit about the idea of it really being a band this time around, and we will all have our thoughts about how seriously to take that. But the place this is most keenly felt is in the bass and guitar departments - purely because Neil would play those on the demos and in many cases on the actual albums too. Bringing acoustic demos to the band and letting Bryan and Ivor work out their own parts is definitely one of the things that changes the sound on this outing.
    Good call!
    I like your summary a lot more than I actually like the song! But this explains a little more why it sounds like it does.
    Now there’s a sentence that makes my head hurt! :D

    Actually I’ve just remembered that that line isn’t in the demo, so maybe it’s not quite as bad as I was making out...
     
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  25. Zardok

    Zardok Forum Resident

    Location:
    Castle Cary
    Note to Self 2.8

    This is the type of nondescript song which this dead-endish project leads to. I don't abhor the song but it lacks character and it lacks the spark which makes it a proper Divine Comedy song. Playing at being a grown-up guitar band. Sometimes it's better to be Peter Pan.
     

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