Timewatching: The Divine Comedy Album-by-album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by LivingForever, Nov 5, 2020.

  1. Hazey John II

    Hazey John II The lyrics are fine, there's no problem there

    Prefer the Feb 2000 version - the song's amiable lightness suits a 60s organ solo better than the hermetically sealed instruments on the studio cut. Can't make head or tail of the lyric, though I find the foolishness of it disarming rather than angering. It's a bit Super Furry Animals, isn't it? It has the same kind of lost-in-translation naive humour to it, and it would benefit from their gonzo approach to an arrangement too. 2.5/5
    I agree this is really interesting, especially because we know many of these were performed in Feb 2000. So I'm back on my nonsense of checking the liner notes for details... and the box set is quite revealing here, as it notes some B-sides being recorded at RAK, some at Westpoint, and some at both. The CD single credits on ashortsite bear some of this out too, although they are inconsistent and incomplete (because the original sleeves were, ashortsite is as complete as possible as always!). The Westpoint tracks tend to be recorded by Andy Scade; the RAK ones by Dan Grech-Marguerat (who was part of the RAK/Godrich team).

    Soul Trader is the only one entirely recorded at RAK, so presumably the only one finished by Godrich alone (though maybe it was mixed later). I guess we can infer the others were attempted by Godrich and abandoned, or dismissed by Godrich (or the band) before they even got started, and picked up at Westpoint later. I assume the Westpoint ones didn't involve Godrich as there's no explicit production credit for them, but it's not clear.
    Never noticed this was Joby! It's nice that Godrich worked with Neil (and Joby) again after this, there wasn't a big falling out or anything - would be interesting to know what he thinks of the album now.
    Oh interesting. Can definitely see that, and it's even more like 2000s Al - the Soulquarian sound on Lay It Down.
    It's a long time isn't it? I keep thinking Absent Friends must have come out in 2003, but no, it's a full three year gap. I was surprised by Neil mentioning (in the Absent Friends liner notes) that he was teaching The Wreck of the Beautiful to the band on September 11th - but then, that was almost a year after the Regeneration sessions so he probably did have a few new songs by then. But still 2.5 years away from releasing them...

    (I thought there was more released from the Folds tour but it looks like it's just Mess, right? And even that was pretty obscure.)
     
  2. The Booklover

    The Booklover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Yes, the song is a bit buried among the more obvious message songs in the second half of the album. As such and because it's a bit rock, I'm not surprised that it didn't fare well here. I agree with both your assessments and give it a 4.

    However, I actually struggle listening to the acoustic version beccause it lacks everything that makes the original interesting.

    That's true. Musically, that snaking guitar/piano motif that first crops up at 0:58 is the most Radiohead thing on the album, though, very "My Iron Lung". It's right up my alley since The Bends is my favourite Radiohead album. It's a shame, though, that the chorus is so leaden. Sure, it rocks in a kind of headbanging or rather headnodding way. Yet, it would have been interesting to hear something that rocked a little bit faster à la "Just". Then again, that's not really rock and roll or punk rock either.

    I agree with the above. It would have even made more sense as the final track on the album if they had continued in a similar vein on the next album. As it is, taken in context of TDC itself, both this (which I really like) and "Too Young To Die" (the music of which I dislike) have sounded hypocritical and embarrassing since 2004.

    While I luckily enjoy most of this album, I agree with your observation that the Persan cover just shows us what Regenaration is not instead of what it is. Maybe that's because the overall perception of it by the fanbase and even Neil himself has been so focused on pointing out what it isn't any longer.
     
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  3. Hazey John II

    Hazey John II The lyrics are fine, there's no problem there

    Re the congas, from Rob Farrer's Spotlight on Regeneration:
    'Regeneration' was a really exciting time for us. With Neil having just signed for Parlophone opportunities seemed to be springing up all of the time. The major thing for me was the chance to work with Nigel Godrich. It didn’t start quite as I’d hoped. In rehearsals we’d decided to add some Latin percussion and make it more of a feature of the sound coming from my particular corner. After Nigel came to see us do a gig in Edinburgh where we’d been trying out some of the new stuff he told me he hated the congas and wanted to ditch them immediately! Don’t sit on the fence Nige!!
     
  4. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Ha! Great find, thank you for that!

    I never think of looking on the actual TDC website for stuff ;)
     
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  5. Linky53

    Linky53 Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Yorkshire UK
    The Beauty Regime

    Not a bad closer to the album and certainly in the better half of songs. The song develops nicely throughout. Some nice strings and I like the drum sound. Not convinced by the vocal again but doesn’t spoil things.

    2.8/5
     
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  6. RadiophonicSound

    RadiophonicSound Electrosonic

    Location:
    Royal Oak MI
    "The Beauty Regime": It's fine. I'm not moved greatly by it one way or the other. Too long again. 2.5/5
    "Soul Trader": It's okay, but I'm not sure it merited inclusion on the record, as it feels a bit...insubstantial? A decent choice for a b side, certainly. 2.25/5
     
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  7. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Soul Trader

    Ooh, something in a major key! And it’s above the pace of an arthritic snail!

    I mean, it’s not a masterpiece, but after so much slow, melancholy music, it’s quite a palette cleanser. The tune is eminently hummable, it gets your toes tapping, there’s a recorder solo (hmmm!), and as @Vagabone said, the crowd at the Edinburgh gig flipping loved it!

    Which begs the question, why isn’t it on the album? Which makes me wonder which song it could possibly replace without seemingly ridiculously out of place. And that’s the problem I will have playing “what if?” with these B-sides - most of the remotely cheerful stuff got creamed off before recording the main album, and as a consequence, most of those songs sound like they belong together, and these just don’t play nicely with them.

    I’ll probably end up concluding that you could make a decent companion album/EP out of them, though...

    OOOH I’ve just remembered what this reminds me of - it’s a slower, less good version of “If...” by The Bluetones!

    Oh, score. 3?
     
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  8. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    That's a good spot, except that you're right - it's less good, so now Soul Trader sounds slightly worse than it did before.
     
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  9. The Booklover

    The Booklover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    I've got nothing against Hepburn, but that's an interesting choice following the rejection of lifestyle magazines.

    Yes, the beginning is a little too slow for me with the drums echoing a kind of funeral march. I'm a bit baffled by the choice of traffic sounds at the end, too.

    Yes, it's very comforting and self-affirming. The plot twist of ending with a rejection of the ideas described by the song so far repeats the trick of "Mastermind". Musically, the songs have a similar vibe, too. And I give it another 4.

    I really like the way the melody unfolds during the "Take a look in the mirror and see/Exactly how worthless you are" lines and their subsequent variations. The middle eight of "And if your life depresses you/Just live it through/Your favourite movie star" actually sounds like it could come from the Hollywood adaptation of a musical, suddenly bringing a bit of glamour into the song, which fits the lyrics. I could have done without the vocal histrionics on the following "Beat stress", though.

    Yes, the subject matter and message resonates with me, too. Though I'm wondering how much it's actually preaching to the converted.

    That reminds me of the theory that "Secret Garden" and "Logic Versus Emotion" (my favourites from Fanfare) only fared so badly here because most listeners had already been put off by most of the preceding songs.

    Well-spotted. I hadn't made that connection yet.

    Regarding the looks, I always thought that his dandy suit-wearing image was just a facade of his artistic alter ego ever since being surprised at seeing him coming out of the venue after a TDC show some time between 1997 and 1999 dressed exactly in the leisurely way that would define the Regeneration era, i.e. that far from being something forced, it was what suited his "real" self better than the previous dressing up. The backlash among the fans reminds me of the stylistic change Pet Shop Boys underwent with Release. And they had already alternated between eccentric costumes and ordinary leasure wear for their videos, artwork and shows before that.

    I totally agree with that. And I can't stop stressing that Office Politics would be improved by including more songs influenced by synth pop. That said, some of the stylistic contrasts on that album are genius, but we'll come to that in due time.
     
  10. ericthegardener

    ericthegardener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Soul Trader

    Very catchy, but not one of Neil's greats. Would not have worked on the album. Agree with @Hazey John II that the organ from the live version was a nice touch. A good b-side. 2.9/5
     
  11. Dalav

    Dalav Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Soul Trader

    By 2001, having stopped playing the role of "completist", I was no longer in touch with the world of Divine Comedy b-sides. So I've test driven most of those on the box set, and look forward to what I assume will be a few others that @LivingForever will serve up to discuss. I think what we'll find are an unusually high percentage that either don't fit the feel of the album (as @ericthegardener rightly mentioned) or just aren't up to snuff and humbly accept their lot in life as a b-side. While I did find at least one I would swap into the album, Soul Trader was not it. Passable, even somewhat catchy, but a little short on spark.

    3.0/5
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
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  12. Dalav

    Dalav Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I know exactly what you mean. I've been running through a ton of songs in my head to come up with something. Best I can do is Badfinger's Come And Get It. But I think there might be something else more recent that escapes me.
     
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  13. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Thank you very much for this detailed dive into what we know about the sessions!

    I think @jon-senior is right in that all these songs were written with a view to seeing whether they would go on the album or not (remember, Neil expressly says that’s why they’re playing them all on the Feb 2000 recording), but it’s pretty clear from those recording details that the B-sides must have been relegated pretty early on and only the album tracks worked on with Nigel G.

    I think you can basically tell when listening- although the B-sides are still in a similar kind of style to the album tracks, there’s no obvious Godrich-ery on them.
     
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  14. The Booklover

    The Booklover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    I have to agree that "Soul Trader" is nothing special. Actually, I find it quite boring and I don't know what else to say about it other than it being performed well.

    I see what you mean regarding the lyrics. Musically, it's the opposite of prime SFA adventurousness, so I concur that that's what's missing from the arrangement. I have the feeling that the tune itself isn't just good enough, though, and no amount of window dressing would be enough to conceal that.

    2

    And that's saying something as I find most of that boring, too. This opens old wounds because I was enthralled by The Bluetones' 1995/6 era. I adored (most of) their debut album and especially all the non-album singles and B-sides with their inventive and cohesive artwork. Therefore, their second album was one of the greatest disappointments on all fronts (though admittedly, "If..." is the least annoying of its singles). Because of that, I always thought they'd deserved their commercial decline and I could never be bothered to check out their subsequent releases.
     
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  15. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Well, as ever, B-sides are less popular discussion topics - but "Soul Trader" still managed to collect 34.65 points from 13 votes, for a preliminary score of:

    2.67

    Keep the votes coming, if you like - I will count them up again after we're done with all the B-sides.

    (edit - included @happysunshine ’s score)
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  16. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Today we move to track 3 of CD1 of "Love What You Do", where we can find the song:

    You

    Another more upbeat song (who'd have thought it?!), and one of the few B-sides to get a mention during the press rounds for the album, when someone asked what it was about, and why it didn't make the album:

    Neil: I wrote 'You' about Órla and about Leia, but it wasn't quite well written enough to go on the album. As for the beard, I will grow it back over my wife's dead body! (Webchat, March 2001)

    Leia, in case of any confusion, is the dog which he and Orla had recently acquired!

    Here's the song:

     
  17. happysunshine

    happysunshine Tillverkningen av Salubrin startades 1893

    Location:
    Earth
    Soul Trader

    Neil gets another outlet for his sudden recorder fetish with this jaunty, melodic quality B-side. It has an enjoyable 60s flavour with a good, punchy production. I’ve always enjoyed this one but it’s obviously not album material. I’ve never heard The Bluetones (!) but listened to ”If...” and I hear the similarities, so thanks for pointing that out @LivingForever. 3.3/5
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  18. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    “You” was also played at the Edinburgh workout shows, but I’ve not been able to upload it yet.

    Just imagine the same B-side, but with louder drumming. Oh, and congas :D
     
  19. happysunshine

    happysunshine Tillverkningen av Salubrin startades 1893

    Location:
    Earth
    You

    Another song sounding like it’s cut from the same jaunty, melodic 60s pop cloth as ”Soul Trader” and definitely unfit for the ”Regeneration” album. Not terribly exciting and somewhat underdeveloped but still a quality B-side. I’d rather listen to this than ”Gin Soaked Boy”! :p 3/5
     
  20. James Cunningham

    James Cunningham Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edinburgh, UK
    You

    An enjoyable little ditty, but as Neil readily admits, very much B side material. I can never recall this song until I play it which says it all really.

    A nice little guitar feature towards the end which I had completely forgotten about.

    Edit- not convinced by the drums on this one- I find the rhythm quite jarring, perhaps overplayed.

    2.5/5
     
  21. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Actually is it bloody "Mr Blue Sky" again that we're thinking of?

    I have a similar history with the Bluetones. I didn't hear their b-sides but I loved their first album and their early non-album singles. I thought they were going to be one of my favourite groups but they lost me immediately with the second album, they seemed to be going in a bluesy, blokey rock direction. Though unlike a lot of my mid-'90s picks, that debut is not one I still listen to much.
     
  22. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I was going to compare our scores, but we didn't actually score "Soul Destroyer", did we? Well, I prefer it, anyway.
     
  23. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    You

    Sweet uncomplicated sentiments that were very unusual in Neil's lyrics up to this point but more usual henceforth.
    But the tune is cloying and, in my opinion, not that good.

    2/5
     
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  24. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    Noooo! :laugh: It does have that relentless beat going on!
    I see what you mean, but maybe not quite... :)
    I think this comes closest to the kind of 60s style I think I was thinking of...!

    Just can't find anything quite like it with that kind of four on the floor beat but without being disco-leaning (like To Die A Virgin or Life and Soul of the Party).

    The live version with the organ solo perhaps leans towards 70s soul, but more like a northern soul, only slower...

    I think it reminds me of the pleasant sort of songs played by a band in some churches which people can clap along to - sort of a very Anglicised version of gospel music!

    Anyway, it doesn't really matter! :p:D
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  25. TheLemmingFace

    TheLemmingFace Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Final three album scores from me:

    Mastermind:
    This was a song that got lost in the hazy boredom of the latter part of the album until I got the boxset, when the 'Rehearsal Version' made me really sit up and, for the first time, start to dig it. I don't think the 'country' arrangement would have fitted on this album - would be out of place - but I wish the finished track were a mite faster. At least now I can appreciate the song. In a different version, this would be a 4 from me, but it's not pretty enough to be so languid: 3/4

    Regeneration:
    With hindsight, it's apt that this album was called 'Regeneration', not 'Regenerated'. We're glimpsing the process of change, but we are not seeing the end result. And, like all processes mid-transition, it's messy, awkward and tedious. This fits into the latter camp. Couldn't remember a word or note of it until hearing it again. 1/5

    The Beauty Regime:
    This was a song that got lost in the hazy boredom of the latter part of the album (am I repeating myself?). But then it got under my skin and I found myself singing it one day. It's a lovely message (very much not a straw man - I think everyone has probably, at some time or other, been unduly influenced by social expectations being stated as 'rules') and it's a heartfelt tune. Pop it at the end of a poppier, peppier album and it would be a lovely tender finale. 4/5
     

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