Timewatching: The Divine Comedy Album-by-album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by LivingForever, Nov 5, 2020.

  1. Dalav

    Dalav Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Island Life (or Island Love as I first typed, in an apparent Freudian slip)

    Wholeheartedly languid, which works perfectly for the subject matter, but not as perfectly for the listener. I'll follow suit and agree on the nice intro and Cathy's backing vocals. Overall, it's pleasant enough, but seems needs an injection/transfusion of energy of some sort. Not sure the backing strings in the latter parts help much--they add another layer of drowsiness to the proceedings. Offhand it seems odd that Neil himself would rate this one so highly. The split-reception here today is interesting.

    Although it sounds like from the start this song wasn't necessarily influenced by Cathy, we're now deep into the "lovey-dovey" phase (as @LivingForever put it). Neil strikes me as the type of self-aware guy who would understand that mixing life and art in pop songs in this way historically yields questionable results and criticism. Yet, at the same time, he's the type of guy who would then say, screw it, this is my life and I'll do it anyway!

    3.5/5
     
  2. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    Probably not what long term listeners we're expecting from "the writer writes for himself, not for you" ten years previously!
     
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  3. a paul

    a paul Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Island


    That's my opinion each time I hear the intro (especially when I listened to it for the first time in a while recently) - I love the intro. It feels like it reminds me of a song of his i like more, or at least the feel of it - like the underwatery magic of Wreck of the Beautiful or something.

    The actual song then seems like a disappointment afterwards. And I'm never quite sold on Cathy's vocals, even though I like plenty of quirky voiced folk.

    However, having heard this song a few times recently, I am surprisingly enjoying it more, especially the random circus style bit in the middle.

    I understand people not liking it, and I still get disappointed when I hear the intro and outro and realise there is some magical song that we have missed out on. I'll give it a 3.5
     
  4. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    I can’t wait to see @Hazey John II ’s analysis of scores to figure out whether this is the album where we have most disagreed with each other, but it sure feels like it!

    I share most people’s love for the intro; but I don’t agree that the main song is a letdown after it. (And have you noticed that the piano pattern carries on out of the intro and all the way through the song, regular as clockwork all the way to the outtro? No, neither had I until just now…)

    It does sound like a bit like a song from a musical, which of course is what it was meant for originally, but weirdly it’s the orchestrations that give it that feel; and surely they didn’t come in until it was quite clear that this song was going on the album instead. But hey, at least it’s one of those MGM-type musicals that @jon-senior mentioned the other day, and not.. I dunno, “Cats”.

    Anyway, I happen to agree with Neil that it is a really gorgeous tune - and I have to say that Neil and Cathy’s voices blend perfectly to do it justice (although I do really love the demo with multiple Neils as well - I’m glad we have both to choose from.)

    As for the lyrics - it’s been a while since I read any Swallows and Amazons but I’m sure it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that at least some of them are left over from the attempt to get the song into that? And if not, ehh, I don’t really have a problem with a song about the joys of being outdoors in the sun anyway.

    “What yesterday was a distant dream/
    Has now been made real by the night…”

    I love that line, especially.

    4.2
     
  5. Radiophonic_

    Radiophonic_ Electrosonic

    Location:
    Royal Oak MI
    "The Lost Art of Conversation": I feel vaguely churlish picking on such a good-natured song, but I feel like the very good-naturedness of it is what puts me off, if that makes sense. Given the world we live in and my own cynicism about things, I don't want to have conversations with strangers - you never know what nonsense they're going to spout. And as someone with a certain degree of social anxiety, randomly talking to people is usually not what I want to do. Musically, it doesn't really interest me a whole lot either; it has a catchiness to it, no doubt, but it's more of an annoying quality than something I enjoy having stuck in my head. So, like the old grump grumbling at people having a good time while he tries to read a book and have a quiet drink, I tell them (in my head) to get lost and give this 2/5
    "Island Life": I think my first reaction to this was along the lines of "what is this ****??" It didn't fit into the musical headspace that I align with Divine Comedy songs, and I've never really cared for it. If these are the lyrics he wrote for the musical, then he was rightly told to go back to work, because it's dramatically inert. Lyrically...it's just there. It's not a situation that appeals to me, so it all skates by without making much of an impression. Pleasant and bland. I'll pass. 2/5
     
  6. lazzaa

    lazzaa Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Been away for a bit, so picking up on what I've missed:

    Indie Disco - Its a nice song isn't it? I really like the pre-chorus bit (and now we're moving to the beat) - a nice callback to Vapour Trail, using similar chords. Ride were probably exactly the kind of band he was thinking of here!. 4/5

    Have You Ever Been In Love - Meh, not really for me. I'm not really a fan of the smooth jazz trio vibe, but its nice enough. A bit of a nothing for me, don't skip it, but don't seek it out. 2.5/5

    Lost Art of Conversation - Love the piano line and what a stupidly catchy chorus. Enjoy the listing as well - Transubstantiation and Bram Stoker's creation indeed! Feeling generous so a full 5/5. I really like the synth demo too, though less keen on the lyrical content there

    Island Life - A bit like Have You Ever Been In Love, a bit inconsequential for me. I like the intro, in fact now he's done his synth pop album (sort of) I wouldn't say no to him indulging his long instrumental side more! But the rest of the song is less for me. Another 2.5/5
     
  7. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Just to make sure, I don't dislike the intro at all. If I did, I wouldn't rate the song as highly as I did. In truth, I like it quite a bit. But it is just a smidge too long.
     
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  8. ericthegardener

    ericthegardener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Accidentally posted this in one of the Bowie threads. Spent a good few minutes wondering where my post went, and then came home after running errands to be perplexed that @jon-senior was quoting me in a David Bowie thread. Thought the Hoffman site was malfunctioning, when in fact it was just my stupidity. Anyway, there are some Divine Comedy fans in the Bowie thread. Here's what I meant to post in this thread earlier.

    Island Life

    This is another one of those songs that I thought I liked less until I listened to review it. I like Cathy's vocals when harmonizing with Neil, but not as much when it is her alone. My ultimate version would have been somewhere between the finished album version and the demo. 3.8/5
     
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  9. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    Ooh there's a Bowie thread? Song-by-song? Tempting if so...
     
  10. Markyp

    Markyp Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louth
    Don’t do it buddy. It’s like the twilight zone.
    You’ll never find your way out again. It’s over three years worth of anticipation for a 5th annual box set due out in 2019. Thread started a year before that.
    :shrug:
     
  11. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Interesting, someone else said it was an important subject too. I must say I disregarded the notion it was about anything important because I think the very title of the song is wrong - I think the art of conversation is alive and well and thriving. But maybe there's more to the debate than I thought.

    This happened to me a while ago in the Kinks thread, glad I'm not the only one who makes such blunders sometimes.

    Island Life
    This is a song that can go either way for me. A retro-exotica easy listening type thing. Nothing zany or pointedly "comedy" about the lyrics this time. Davey's vocals are certainly an acquired taste, and I'm not sure if I've acquired it yet. I find them more distracting here than on any other Divine Comedy song I can think of. Hmm. I dunno. Is it too sweet and laid back? Or is that just what you need sometimes?
    I might look back at all my scores later and find I've put this on the same level as a lot of songs I think are a whole lot better, but, oh well, it's only a game.
    3/5
     
  12. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    Not a song by song, but yes - I'd be tempted by that too. Though from an administrative point of view, and without wanting to diminish @LivingForever's stirling work, I imagine it would make this thread look like a walk in the park!
     
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  13. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    Hah well that's what worries me. I'm always reluctant to start watching US TV shows these days because I know that chances are they're going to end up running for about ten seasons and life is too short for that kind of commitment. A movie is one thing, but a hundred hours of the same show? Maybe not... Anyway I kind of approach message board threads the same way :)
     
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  14. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    Yeah I don't have anything to compare with really, but it seems to me in terms of the number of people participating in this thread it's about right. Too little and it becomes pointless, but too many - and it seems safe to assume that there'd be hundreds participating in an equivalent Bowie one - then it wouldn't work for me either. Sure I could post my opinion on each song each day, but I just wouldn't have the time to read through other people's opinions and engage with the points they've made. And that's half the fun of it really.
     
  15. TheLemmingFace

    TheLemmingFace Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Island Life
    I’m in the team that really like this. I like minimalism and twiddly instrumentation, I like Cathy’s voice (especially in duet with Neil), and Swallows and Amazons was my favourite book when I was a child so the atmosphere is right up my alley. I reckon at first I found this to be boring mid-album filler, but it’s really got under my skin since.

    Shoutout to the way the bass comes in at the point where the lyric lets us onto the island with that welcoming ‘this is our island life’ - from then on we’re encouraged to come and see it rather than just hear about it.

    Lovely overlapping instrumental layers. I always dismiss the orchestrations on this album because they’re not confident like on Victory, swaggering like Joby’s, or filmic like Foreverland’s. But on Island Life and Have You Ever Been In Love they are very good in an understated sort of way. 4/5
     
  16. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Yay; thank you! I thought we were having “Here Comes the Flood” all over again ;)

    On the bass- I meant to mention it, but Simon Little really shines on this album perhaps more than any other. Fantastic upright bass here.
     
  17. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    On the topic of “Here Comes the Flood”, and songs that a lot of people don’t enjoy…

    (From an interview with “Psychiatry and Songs”, 2011):

    I like the idea that on an album that’s otherwise obviously stupendous, you sometimes have a dubious track that needs the listener to put in a bit more work – or may not work at all.

    I’ve certainly had some of those (laughs). I remember when fans of mine, and I use fans in its loosest possible sense, because they ran a competition: “What’s your least favourite Divine Comedy track”! (laughs). About five years ago.

    What won?

    Have a guess.

    Was it ‘Europe by Train’?

    Nope. (Pregnant pause). What’s wrong with that? (laughs). No, it was ‘Here Comes the Flood’ off Fin de Siècle. So I think the defining feature is it’s always the one where I push the idea to its extreme. And maybe it sort of goes over the top or… up my own anus.

    You have to go to extremes sometimes though, right?

    I think so. And you’re pushing everything, but sometimes you just go a little overboard. So it’s important to be allowed to do that.
     
  18. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    As Cathy's vocal style is being discussed, I have to say that I don't much like her vocal contributions to these records. "quirky" is one way to describe her voice indeed, but it's just too much for me really. I want to say it's too "girlie" but I feel like I'd be putting my head on the chopping block, and I'm not really sure what I mean by that term anyway.

    On the other hand here's a video I made of her doing one of her own songs while supporting Neil on the 2010 tour (although there were only a handful of gigs where she actually was the support on that tour; I'm trying to think now who else supported Neil but I think it was just a mix of random people mostly...):



    Anyway I'm linking to it because I really like the rawness of her vocals (and guitar) on this, particularly when it builds towards the end. I guess my point is that for me her vocal style suits her own songs better than it suits Neil's songs (or possibly it's more about the songs that Neil asks her to sing on.)
     
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  19. A Tea-Loving Dave

    A Tea-Loving Dave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northumberland, UK
    Time for a catch-up methinks :) some brief thoughts, and some more in-depth.

    I rather like this one - fun, the instrumentation and lyrics work well together, and the fact Neil had never been to an indie disco as a teen doesn't bother me in the slightest.

    3.5/5

    I really like this one, unlike many of those who have already commented within this thread - the lyrics are pretty good, Neil's vocals and the instrumentation go well together, and I don't find it over the top or mawkish at all.... it's just a downright lovely song.

    5/5

    Another one I like a lot, mostly because of the way it sounds with the vocals and instruments merging together, although I must admit that some of the lyrics are pretty good in their own right - this one works well live, too, and I've been fortunate enough to hear it thus in both solo and band versions.

    4/5

    A fun little track which I like a lot more than most of the other "list" songs which have been covered previously, and which is definitely well-suited to live performance - although it does also work very well as an album track in its own right.

    4.5/5

    Conversely to the opinion I put forth above regarding another track, I *do* find this one a little mawkish, more for the production and feel of the track rather than the lyrics or any particular aspect of the instrumentation - it's not a bad track really, and some aspects (the opening, for instance) are genuinely pleasant. I don't listen to it terribly often, so it is possible that were I to pay it more attention it might grow on me.... or it might grate. I genuinely don't know!

    3/5

    ----

    And now assorted remarks and replies:

    Yeah, those would have most certainly ruined the track in my opinion.

    The track definitely works really well live, especially when (as you note) the Blue Monday segment is extended out into effectively a partial cover book-ended by Indie Disco; the performance I saw in Manchester during the Foreverland tour had a massively positive response from the crowd, and has to be one of my favourite live DC moments. It's also the most I have enjoyed a live performance of Blue Monday full stop - the one and (so far) only time I saw New Order live I was somewhat distracted during the back half of the concert as Helly was quite unwell and not enjoying the concert at all as a result of what we later discovered was a ruptured ovarian cyst!

    The Knighthood tour comprised the second, third and fourth time I saw Divine Comedy live - and each performance was rather different from the preceding one!

    August 9th 2010 - a short-ish set at the Hard Rock Cafe in Manchester; as memory serves tickets were free and available through random selection on submission of interest. This was also one of the first gigs I went to with Helly after her nervous breakdown (of which I have spoken in the past) and as such was quite a nice bit of therapy for her; she already liked DC in much the same background fashion I had before seeing the 2006 V Festival performance, and I had been working on converting her already, but this is the point where she actually became a *fan* of Divine Comedy. The environment, and the fact that this was one of the first live performances of the Knighthood tracks in the UK, meant that it felt quite different from the gigs that followed.

    August 21st 2010 - another V Festival performance, but this time in the company of Helly. The one-man-and-his-piano format for the tour didn't work anywhere as well in a festival setting, but I recall enjoying myself a lot.

    November 1st 2010 - the only concert from the "main" tour which I attended, and hence the only full-length Knighthood set I saw. This one was enjoyable enough for the most part, but unfortunately an aggressive level of drunkenness on the part of several audience members who didn't react well to the format of the gig meant that I suspect Neil wouldn't echo my sentiments were he to recall the concert himself.

    Funnily enough that's exactly what I was thinking on refreshing my memory of the track!

    One wonders how many people in this thread who are marking "Lost Art" poorly due to the fact it is effectively a bunch of random listed items did quite the opposite when scoring "Booklovers" ;) at least this one has a cheerful beat and instrumentation, and isn't a near-dirge!
     
  20. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    I agree that Neil's use of her vocals doesn't show her voice at its best, so I'll add my support for Cathy :)
    I really like her music and was drawn in by her sort of raw and expressive style. I came across her and had an album before her involvement with Neil, but it hadn't really clicked with me and I'd sort of forgotten about her until finding she was on this record. Actually I think her her strongest albums are The Nameless from 2010 and New Forest which is more recent - 2016? (and it isn't full of slushy love songs like Foreverland....!).
    It seems to me that Neil has used her vocals to add sweetness and light to songs that are already sort of cute, which can be a bit sickly-sweet. Her own songs are weirder/darker and more emotionally-driven than Neil's music, which really works with her voice.
    Universe Tipping is a good one (nice video), and also for rawness I like Little Red. If you haven't seen it, the video for it is... well, a bit bizarre! I love the way she really strums the hell out of her guitar and really goes for it. She's one of few artists I'd like to see live, but I don't think she plays much anymore, especially not outside of Ireland.
     
  21. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    Hello :wave: Great catch up post!
    I can't remember my own score for The Booklovers, but I wouldn't compare the two, any more than I would All Things, Lost Property or The Synthesiser Service Centre Super Summer Sale or many more. They're all different, they just happen to be based around lists of stuff.
    I think The Booklovers really works because it is pushing the boundaries of 'pretentiousness', and has that wonderful 'Happy the Man' mashup as the chorus. The absurdity of it makes it work as possibly the ultimate list song.
    The Lost Art Of Conversation; well, I appreciate the sentiment but that's as far as it goes.
     
  22. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    One answers that "Booklovers" is not at all a random list but themed and carefully curated, and that it is an exquisite piece of music that also sounds great as an instrumental. If that's a dirge Knighthood could do with a few more of them to break up the mood a bit.
     
  23. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Taking this tangent a bit further, I think that at least in the public space, there is no conversation at all. That is, people are simply talking AT each other, not WITH one another. Shouting to drown out and/or taking as much umbrage as possible from the other person's statements seem to be the prevailing theme.

    Now, "The Lost Art of Conversation" is less specific in what type of conversation Neil refers to, but that's my take on it.
     
  24. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    Yes definitely, especially the public virtual space on social media etc where things tend to be polarised and confrontational, with little or no attempt made to actually have a 'conversation' at all.
    But in real life social and workplace settings, it seems to me that the art of conversation is alive and well.
     
  25. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    I'm sure it is - I wouldn't know since there is no social or work life in the pandemic. ;)
     

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