Timewatching: The Divine Comedy Album-by-album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by LivingForever, Nov 5, 2020.

  1. The Booklover

    The Booklover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    A Desperate Man
    Yes, I agree, though it wouldn't be the title theme but the go-to theme for every chase sequence.

    That Middle Eastern bit actually caught my attention more than the general Latin American vibe.

    Ha, for me it's the other way round. I can just stomach a musical-like number as a one-off instead of a whole musical.

    A fitting description for this chase sequence.
    Yes, they're good fun, and I also love the opening line. That said, as early as the second line, we find out that the pursuers don't seem to be very clever and subsequently they are never really mentioned again, which doesn't really raise the stakes of the chase (in contrast to the music). Also, I could do without the use of and emphasis on the word "baby" here (unless he's running home to change the diaper of his baby).

    Just like chase sequences in films, I think it would outstay its welcome and become tedious if it were any longer. For me the brief running time has more impact.

    I completely agree with this and also give it a 4.
     
  2. The Booklover

    The Booklover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Yes, that's exactly what I meant with regard to songs like this and "Catherine The Great". I don't think a stripped down demo for "A Desperate Man" would work as well, though.
     
    The Turning Year likes this.
  3. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Argh, sorry; busy day at work…

    Today’s song is:

    Other People

    A song based on a dictaphone recording!
    Here’s Neil:

    I have sometimes been chastised for how Other People ends. I don't care. It's my song and I can end it how I like! Also, it was absolutely the right thing to do. There are so many barriers to honesty in music. Often, by the time you're in the studio recording the vocal, you've slightly forgotten what you were driving at when you wrote the song. The vocal on Other People is a voice memo I made on my phone in a hotel room in London. I had just come up with the idea and the tune, and this was only the second or third time I had sung it out loud. It ends the way it does because I intended to finish it at a later date. However, when I listened back to it at home I really couldn't think where else the thought needed to go. It sounded okay. It was more or less in tune. Most importantly of all, it captured exactly what I was feeling at the precise moment I was feeling it. I could only make it worse. So, to accompany it, I wrote as sparse a string arrangement as I could manage, and ... blah blah blah ...

    Here it is and, oh blah blah blah ;

     
  4. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Other People

    Interesting to get the back story there.

    I like this song, it reminds me of Stephin Merritt again but it's probably just influenced by the same things he's influenced by when he does these kinds of songs, i.e. crooner tunes.

    I like the way it sounds like it's going to be an a acapella fragment, or at least a very stripped down song, then all of a sudden this lush backing comes in. It's a bit of a expectation confounder.
    The way it ends, as noted by Hannon, proabbly annoys some people, but I appreciate his defiance about it. I don't mind it- it's a jolt, a shock, not just the first time but quite a few times in my case (because I kept forgetting it ends that way). I do find it funny. But as Neil Hannon notes, it serves the purpose of keeping the song short and sweet and not making it longer for no reason. ANd it segues nicely into the next song. And to find out that doing it this way preserves the original vocal as it originally was on the initial voice memo- it's amazing really. Who else has ever done that? These days, there's always the danger of artists overthinking and overworking stuff because there's so much technology- I can see why he would want to try doing it this way.

    Enough about the gimmick. The words are very pertinent and relatable, and the tune is very good. Not an all-time fave but a solid 4/5
     
  5. Radiophonic_

    Radiophonic_ Electrosonic

    Location:
    Royal Oak MI
    “Other People”: The ending of this greatly annoyed me on first hearing, because it’s like getting the rug pulled out from under you. I still don’t like the idea of including it, because if you can’t be bothered to finish something, why should I be made to pay for it? I don’t think it’s asking too much as someone shelling out for physical product, that I get a finished set of songs. Apologies if that sounds entitled or moaning or whatever, but like Neil, I don’t care. On streaming or a collection billed as odds and ends, fine. Otherwise, no. 1/5 on the principle of the thing.
     
  6. ericthegardener

    ericthegardener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Other People

    I like the combo of the raw vocal and lush strings. Not necessarily my favorite tune, but an interesting experiment. 3.5/5
     
  7. a paul

    a paul Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Other People
    I think I like the fact that it's short and cut off. Hard to tell if it was fleshed out whether I'd really like it or if Neil would do something that wasn't to my taste. 3
     
  8. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    Other People

    Lots to love before the ending. Lyrically, it's sentimental but honest - it's unusual for a song to tackle love that isn't first relationships, but this is done very effectively. The a capella opening which unfolds out to the string arrangement is lovely, and - perhaps because of the way it was put together - it takes some really unusual steps in terms of chord progression.

    Having said that, it's all about the ending, isn't it. If it bothers you - and I can totally understand if it does - then that would overwhelm all the good that comes before it. Personally, I think the unconventional finish works really well. It's bold, but without it, I think the song could have finished as a slightly forgettable piece - as it progresses, it becomes more "normal" so the rug-pulling effect is welcome. To me, at least - again, I can completely understand why it would annoy some people.

    4/5
     
  9. TheLemmingFace

    TheLemmingFace Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Other People
    This is a great song!!! Personally I think it's wasteful to fixate on the gimmick when the song itself is a grand little number. And, as @jon-senior says, it's a really unusual subject for a pop song.

    The voice-memo styling is as valid a production choice as, say, using a banjo or getting Cathy on backing vocals. I can understand how one could see the ‘bla bla bla’ as diminishing or reductive, but to me it just makes clear that the vocal was a memo rather than a fully fledged studio take. That’s why the a cappella opening section is essential - establishing this fact by letting us hear the background noise. Of course I laughed the first few times I heard the end, but now it just makes the song feel like it's a fresh thought, straight from the mouth of the one who is thinking it. And it also undercuts the grandiosity of the lyric, which otherwise could get a bit heavy in its self-important I'm-not-the-jealous-type sentiment.

    Personally I'm really pleased that Neil does things like this: treating something this beautiful in this cheeky way is a move which (I know I'm repeating myself...) is confident, swaggering and utterly self-assured. And that's how I like my Hannon.

    All in all it's a gorgeous song with an excellent string arrangement, which I don't think is at all diminished by the cheeky ending. 4/5
     
  10. DaniMoonstar

    DaniMoonstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Other people
    Neil’s overview of this is very interesting. I love the sparseness and vulnerability of that first minute or so. I thought it brave and stark. I had no idea it was recorded on a phone and the ambient background noise the by chance accompaniment of London roadways. The strings, when they come, are subtle and, not for the first time, there’s something old Hollywood about the emerging sound, almost Disney.

    And then that ending. Weirdly this is the second album in a row where the penultimate track is undercut by its final bars. As Neil says, he can do what he likes and maybe he didn’t want the song to conform to the strictures of an MOR ballad, and this original vocal gave him a way out. However, the remarkable part of this song is that first minute and it is undermined by this choice. The ending is what sticks in the listener’s mind. It does feel suddenly as if the intensely felt initial emotion wasn’t that important: it becomes trivial. As such…

    2.5/5
     
  11. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    I really, really think if he’d gone and re-recorded the vocal and gone full arrangement crazy, and given it a proper ending, that this would be too much and we’d all be making vomit signs…

    I laughed out loud at the ending the first time and it still makes me smile. It sounds like he’s trying to think of where to go next and then realises it’s too late and gives up.

    Love the rawness of the vocal, and the lyrics speak to me too, as someone who found real love a bit later in life after a failed first marriage. When you’re 21, the idea of your partner’s ex is the most enraging thing in the world. These days, I’m more grateful for the experiences my wife had before she met me, that turned her into the person I know and love. (And she might well say the same about me!)

    4
     
  12. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    I tell you what it’s always sounded like to me - it sounds like he’s outside, maybe walking up a hill. I’ve always slightly had the image of Alan Partridge walking back from the BP garage…

    “Idea for a song… something about exes. Must not, repeat not, get too maudlin.”
     
  13. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    Other People
    I do like this one, for many of the reasons everyone else has already explained. I tend to forget its on the album, but it's a pleasant surprise when it crops up in that 'second-to-last' quiet song spot (Ten Seconds to Midnight, Theme From Casanova, Timewatching, Freedom Road), following a bombastic song; a spot I always seem to enjoy.
    Yes I like that contrast too, and agree about it being interesting.
    Yes I think so too!
    I feel exactly the same way as you've described; well put. I also found real love a little later (although still under 30) after having had a long term relationship/engagement for 10 years from 18, and I do agree with all Neil has to say on the subject in the song.
    I agree with everything else you've said about it but, while the ending itself doesn't annoy me, the transition to the next song definitely does. The rathe lovely song suddenly cut off only to go straight into a bouncy, irritating number... Although that's probably almost 100% down to my feelings about tomorrow's song and shouldn't detract from this one.
    I can see where you're coming from and do sway to and fro between liking the ending and feeling it just undercuts the heartfelt emotion of the first part. But then as @LivingForever said, if he'd gone the whole hog on it I don't think I would get that raw emotion from the first half, so I don't think this one could quite win either way!
    I'm also pleased he does this kind of thing, and that he does it fully aware of the effect it might have is quite bold (although nothing on his early cover of Wuthering Heights...!).
    Score: 3.5/5
     
  14. The Booklover

    The Booklover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Other People
    Yes, the resemblance to Stephin Merrit was the first thing that I noticed when the vocal started. I also like the raw acapella start coupled with the strings.

    I feel similarly, but it's not so much that the song wasn't continued or fleshed out, but rather what @DaniMoonstar wrote:
    Yes, the "blah blah blah" undermines everything that came before, making it sound like he disowns the song.

    Yes, the main lyrics are very original, which makes the effect of the last three words so frustrating.

    But the "blah blah blah" is not needed to make clear that the vocal wasn't a studio take. As you note yourself, that fact is already established by the background noise of the opening section.

    Interesting thought, but to me the whole emotional honesty of the lyric is undercut by the ending. Unless one would read it as the narrator suddenly admitting to himself that his whole "there's no need to be jealous" stance is fake or wishful thinking. Which would be another case of Neil trying to have it both ways, sending mixed messages.

    I definitely think so, too, but that still doesn't mean that the song had to end that abruptly with the disparaging "blah blah blah". Instead, he could have just ended it on the preceding "...so have I" and maybe added a few final notes to the existing string arrangement to bring it to a close. I think that would have worked fine: the song still wouldn't have outstayed its welcome, and its feel and emotional impact would have been preserved.

    This is quite hard to rate for obvious reasons: without the ending, it would deserve a 4. As it is, I can't give it more than a 2.5.
     
  15. TheLemmingFace

    TheLemmingFace Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Just to clarify what I was thinking - I didn't mean I thought the 'voice memo style' was an effect or affectation. The 'bla bla bla' bit is 'needed' because it's genuinely there, on the genuine original draft that Neil has chosen to share with us. I like the honesty and unpretentiousness of that; not sure if I'd like it so much if he was processing a studio take to sound like a voice memo.

    I guess I'm translating 'bla bla bla' as 'that's all I've got' not as 'well that's all rubbish'. If the latter, I can see why it would be undercutting the emotional honesty, but with my interpretation ('that's all I've got') it's only undercutting pomposity and thus, effectively, heightening the honesty of the sentiment.

    [To be clear, I completely buy everyone else's interpretation of this and expected a lot more hate for it, to be honest - just adding these notes to clarify what I meant, rather than as criticisms of other takes!]
     
  16. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Other People

    I have the diametrical opposite opinion of @The Booklover - for me it’s the ending that makes the song memorable. I was the same as @LivingForever, I did a double-take and laughed at it the first time I heard it. ”Did he really do that?” The song itself is fine - some interesting lyrics and an enjoyable string accompaniment - but it’s the ending I always look forward to when I hear the track.

    Without it, a solid 4.1 but raised to 4.5 thanks to the ending.
     
  17. A Tea-Loving Dave

    A Tea-Loving Dave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northumberland, UK
    Mopping up the two I put aside earlier, now I am home from my wanderings:

    Not much to say about this one, but I like it :) 3.5/5

    I like this one too; it is fairly insubstantial in terms of lyrics, I feel, but the interplay between the music and the sound of Neil's voice work really well here. As such.... 4/5

    ---

    And onto the tracks which have been discussed subsequently:

    I definitely like this one, but I suspect I like it less than many others in the DC fandom do - instrumentally, lyrically and vocally it hits all the bases, but it has never quite grabbed me in the way other tracks do. 4/5

    The lyrics of this one amuse me a lot, and the music/instrumentation goes pretty well with the vocals. Definitely a bit of retrospective-unfortunateness with the line about wanting to go outside but not daring to risk it, mind you!

    4.5/5

    A nice pleasant one, but fairly insubstantial methinks.

    3/5

    Not a massive fan of this one, although it isn't bad per se:

    2.5/5

    Quite like this one, although it's definitely not one of the tracks I am most prone to listening to again.

    3.5/5

    This one would score higher were it not for the final few seconds - a quiet fade-out at the end would have worked fine methinks.

    4.5/5

    Hah, I definitely see what you mean!

    Agreed on this; had that been the case, I think the track might have scraped a 5/5 score......
     
  18. Dalav

    Dalav Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Other People

    My take on the ending points to what is suggested in Neil's liner notes. The song up to that point is heartfelt and genuine, with no intent by way of the ending to undermine or trivialize the message. We’ve heard before Neil speak of songs so full of themselves that they fall out of his favor. So, a little restraint here. The ending is simply an admittedly unusual way to say there's no need to gild the lily.

    I enjoy the whole track from the added gentle strings to the last words, which always elicit a chuckle. I never considered that the ending might serve to diminish the message. Compartmentalization, I guess. I identify with the sentiments up to that point enough that they can't be spoiled. And I agree with those that point to the lyrics as another example of his more mature take on love. Older, wiser, and more accepting is he.

    4.1/5
     
  19. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    Yeah I feel exactly the same way about them live, they are great songs and I can appreciate them that way on the albums but live it just feels like he plays them because he has to. There's been a bit of controversy recently about The Stones dropping Brown Sugar from their setlist for the first time in 40 years; mostly it's to do with the lyrics (which is a subject I won't get into!) but frankly if you've been playing a song at every gig for forty years then surely it's time for a change anyway. I can't imagine how boring it must be to keep playing the same song over and over again because people expect to hear it.
     
    The Booklover likes this.
  20. lazzaa

    lazzaa Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Other People - someone above mentioned that it reminds them of a Stephin Merritt song and I totally see that.

    I have a lot of love for the sentiment of the song, about people being the sum total of their experiences up to that point. The strings risk being overbearing by the end, so I'm glad it's short, I really like how the strings start of the one with the one high note before everything else comes in.

    I like the 'blah blah blah' - A brave decision in an album of otherwise safe ones. 3.5/5
     
  21. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    OK I've caught up to the point where I've just read my own opinion of Napoleon Complex that I wrote days ago! "Painting the Forth Bridge"" springs to mind...

    How Can You Leave Me On My Own - I suppose it's not bad, it's just not the kind of song I want Neil to be writing. I like him best when he's aspiring to make great art of some kind or another; even if he doesn't always quite get there, what matters is what he's aiming for, whereas this is just a silly ditty about wasting time. Which is quite ironic considering what a waste of studio time this was (maybe I've discovered a hidden meaning! Or possibly not.) It works somewhat better with the video, as Neil is quite endearing in it (I think he could actually do proper acting, although to the best of my knowledge he's never tried...) Although even that depresses me slightly, as I don't like the idea of Neil following the Katy Perry model whereby the song is an afterthought thrown in to give the expensive video a soundtrack. Not sure what I make of the alternate lyric, although I think I prefer it to the replacement one. And I don't see why it couldn't have gone on the album, he's put stranger things on albums before. But anyway can't give this more than 1.5 / 5 (must try harder!)

    I Joined The Foreign Legion To Forget - another one I don't like, there's something sing-songy about the melody that grates with me, and Neil sings it in his smuggest "Aren't I being clever here?" voice. And given that he felt the need to make a separate recording of him reciting the lyrics as if it's some work of poetic genius, I guess he really *is* amazed at just how clever he is. As I've said before, I reserve really low scores for things that actively irritate me, and on that basis this gets 0.5 / 5.
     
  22. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Another busy day... but here's the last track on "Foreverland":

    The One Who Loves You

    Another one about which Neil apparently has nothing to say! (But then, how much explanation does it really need?)

     
  23. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    And here’s the demo version.

     
  24. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    The One Who Loves You

    Beautiful, uplifting tune, great grooves. The third verse adds some grit in the oyster and some welcome musical tension as the big orchestra swell comes in for the finale. Rounds off the album excellently, and makes me feel more positive about the album in general.
    4/5
     
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  25. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Well, your mind will quite likely be made up by the distinctly daft nature of the rest of the bonus disc! But even if not, I don’t actually think it’s possible to buy the new version outside of the boxset anyway (and the boxset is out of print from what I understand….)
     

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