I know, right? I don’t have any way of checking, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just some messing around. On the full recording I have of that Lille gig, there’s two whole minutes of messing about playing the riff from Smoke on the Water and pretending he’s going to do “Summer of ‘69” before they get down to “Wuthering Heights”... I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a similar thing!
The Bright Lights of Ealing The out-of-tune-ness of the staccato stabs at just past the one minute mark is endearing... Suffers a lot from demo-itis, where the mechanical drum beat overpowers the rest of the instrumental work and sounds very intrusive. Otherwise, it's not at all developed, mainly a riff on a couple of chords repeated ad nauseam. I'm sure it could have been reworked into a track, but as it is, the other instrumental demos are much more pleasant.
I'm sure I've seen him be pretty scathing about Bohemian Rhapsody in interviews in the past - I don't know whether that translates to a general dislike of Queen, but I guess it's likely, so yes, probably messing around. Funny, really - like Queen, Neil's quite happy to make himself ridiculous for the sake of entertaining others!
Ok, we are done with the Promenade era, so it only remains for me to wish you all Happy Christmas! Feel free to pop in and post your thoughts on anything you’ve missed over the last few days, or whatever else you like, over this festive period. When I get some downtime I will do a couple more history lessons filling in the gaps between now and the release of “Casanova”. But the main thread will resume on Jan 2nd. Thank you, one and all!
Sounds a bit like the spoken verses of I Was Born Yesterday, and also sort of like "it was so good we got bored" from Your Daddy's Car. Definitely feels more Liberation-era than Promenade-era to me. Re: The Model, I wonder how much of Nyman's sound, or Neil's love of it, can be attributed to synth pop. It's not so far from the motorik-style beat here to, say, A Seafood Song. Maybe the cold stiffness of 80s synths is at some level a buried influence on DC's sharp, straight style. Merry Christmas everyone - best wishes to you and yours.
As an insufferable teenage Kate Bush fanatic you can only imagine my joy at one of my other favourite artists covering her music, only to have that turn very sour when I downloaded it off Soulseek, back in the day! As an aside his cover of Hounds of Love during the bang goes the knighthood days is actually pretty good. Merry Xmas all and as ever thanks to @LivingForever for running the show here.
It’s Christmas morning here, and listening to that version of Wuthering Heights for the first time was the best present ever. Thanks!
Yes, and I'd argue that some of the previous or alternate versions on the later bonus discs are better than the final ones (of course, that's a matter of taste). I agree, the versions we have are quite forgettable. I think there are two reasons for the lack of proper additional original songs in 1993 and 1994. First, Neil already wrote most of Promenade while waiting to get the chance to finally record Liberation, so instead of writing/developing extra songs for B-sides, he already wrote a whole new album. Second, there was no need for many original B-sides as there were hardly any proper singles (except "Lucy", the cover/remix and live EPs don't really count). What's interesting about this setlist apart from a quarter of it consisting of covers is that Neil played more songs from the previous than the current album (which would have been fine by me as I slightly prefer Liberation). Also, "Ten Seconds To Midnight" doesn't lead into "Tonight We Fly" with four songs inbetween. Finally, a disappointing lack of "The Booklovers" and "Neptune's Daughter" (which in my opinion are the masterpieces on Promenade together with "The Summerhouse"), but that fits their relatively low scores in this thread (especially with the criminally underrated "Neptune's Daughter"). I have to disagree, because (even if it is simple and repetitive) I enjoy listening to this riff more than to what the other demos posted in the last days offered. But I agree that a more developed and professionally recorded version would have been better. That's probably why I like it. I can understand your reaction to the "Wuthering Heights" cover as it comes across as a puerile piss-take (although Neil refers to it as a serious song in a ridiculous rendition). In contrast, his take on "Hounds Of Love" is very respectful. I also would like to wish everyone here a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Take care and stay safe!
I noticed this too, and briefly ran through in my mind what songs from Promenade were missing; and came ot the conclusion that they were probably all (including the two you mention) tricky to play live. The Liberation songs tend to be more straightforward.
Hope everyone is enjoying their festive period! To fill in a bit of time, here’s some more TDC history, starting to take us through the period between “Promenade” and “Casanova”. Divine Comedy History Lesson, Part 4 (ish) “Promenade” is released on March 28th, 1994 and then Neil does a few instore and promotional solo gigs, including a session for Mark and Lard’s late night show on BBC Radio 1 where he plays “Bernice”, “When the Lights Go Out” and “A Drinking Song”. The last of these solo gigs is at Dublin’s Olympia, where he supports Kristin Hersh (writer of “Hate My Way”), a set which is recorded and “A Drinking Song” released on the Secret History “Rarities” CD. Following this, the “band” head out on tour supporting Tori Amos for 5 weeks across the U.K. and Europe. The line-up is slightly modified from the last tour, consisting of Neil, Natalie Box (violin), Catherine Black (cello) and Joby Talbot (Piano). The EP “Indulgence No. 2” featuring 3 live tracks from these dates is released on 7” in July, by which time they have also completed a headlining tour of France culminating in 3 Parisian dates. As far as we know; the last gig this line-up plays is at the Phoenix festival in Stratford-Upon-Avon on the 16th of July, 1994. After this, Neil goes to the Edinburgh festival, where as far as I know he doesn’t actually play, but is inspired to write “If I Were You (I’d Be Through With Me)” on the bus on the way home. In September, Neil will head to New York for a holiday and it’s at this time that he will start to rethink the idea of TDC as a band... TO BE CONTINUED...
Divine Comedy History Lesson, Part 5 (With once again many thanks to the Chronology at ashortsite...) In September 1994, Neil takes a holiday to New York City, at the suggestion of Setanta’s Keith Cullen, who recommends some friends to host him while he’s there - Dominique Durand and Andy Chase. Dominique is close to the founder of the French magazine “Les Inrockuptibles”, which has been so supportive to Neil up to this point- and Andy, who lives with her, is in a band called Ivy who are recording their first EP at his own studio called “The Place”. Neil spends most of his time in NYC composing new songs for the next album, and eventually records one of them in Andy’s studio - a version of “The Dogs and the Horses”, which then gets released on the CD entitled “Nectar” which is sent to subscribers of Les Inrockuptibles along with issue 60, in November 1994. (This version of the song also appeared as a B-side on one of the “Casanova” singles and we will discuss it when we get to the song itself.) A couple of fun quotes from this trip: Andy Chase: And Dominique Durand: It’s not quite clear exactly when this happens; but sometime around this time, Neil starts to think about getting a “proper” band together again for the first time in 4 years. Joby Talbot is already in the line-up and stays on, playing piano and woodwind, as well as suggesting a couple of musicians he knows: Stuart “Pinkie” Bates on keyboards, and Grant Gordon on drums. Rounding out the line-up is an old friend of Neil’s with whom he has reconnected in Edinburgh - Bryan Mills on bass guitar. Bryan says: And Grant Gordon said in 2014: The new line-up were to make their debut at a special gig in Paris on October 24th, 1994 where they would be accompanied by a string quartet - only the venue (Theâtre de la Ville) having banned drums, Grant Gordon would have to stay at home. Ahead of the gig, Neil plays a solo piano/guitar set for his first “Black Session” on France Inter, playing two older songs as well as debuting two new ones: “The Dogs and the Horses”, and “If I Were You (I’d Be Through With Me)”. When the gig itself rolls around, the line-up of Neil, Joby, Stuart and Natalie Box (violin) are joined by a string quartet which the event programme lists as being made up of “musicians” including Russel Harty and Bruce Forsyth (British TV personalities of the time!) In another twist, the programme lists a setlist of highlights from “Liberation” and “Promenade”, but the actual setlist seems to have comprised of the entirety of “Promenade” followed by an encore of “The Dogs and the Horses”. Recordings of “Booklovers” and “Summerhouse” from this gig are included on the “Rarities” CD with “A Secret History”. And so begins “The Divine Comedy Band”, mk. 2. TO BE CONTINUED...
Happy new Year, everyone! Ahead of starting on “Casanova” tomorrow, here’s the final part of the history of what happened in the two years between “Promenade” and “Casanova” being released. Divine Comedy History Lesson, Part 6 Once again with massive thanks to Ashortsite! Following on from the new song “The Dogs and the Horses” appearing on the French compilation CD in November 1994, and being played along with another new song at Neil’s first “Black Session” around the same time, it would have appeared that the follow up to “Promenade” was imminent. But in fact; it would be another 18 months before “Casanova” would be released. So; what happened? Information from interviews suggests that Neil is stuck on the lyrics; but that an interview set up by Les Inrockuptibles in May 1995, where he interviews Björk for the magazine apparently spurs him on to some new inspiration, and in June 1995, recording finally begins properly at The Garden studios, London. Before this, Neil is approached by Irish writer Graham Linehan, who has interviewed him in the past for the “Volume” magazine, asking him to provide the theme tune for a new sitcom he is working on, called “Father Ted”. According to stories I’ve heard Neil tell several times recently, he offers them two half-finished pieces - “Songs of Love” and “Woman of the World”, and the show’s producers say: “We’ll have the Irish-sounding one, please!” Father Ted first airs on April 21st, 1995, and goes on to be a huge success, with Neil providing a lot more incidental music, some of which is now collected on the Casanova bonus disc. Recording continues throughout 1995, first at The Garden studio, and then at Milo studios, both in London, with the last known session at Milo being on January 20th, 1996. At some point during the “Casanova” sessions, there’s a big session at Abbey Road, recording an orchestra made up of mostly friends and acquaintances of the band, and it’s something that’s looked on fondly by people who were there at the time. Joby Talbot remembered recently on TDC’s official website: Grant Gordon also remembers: Throughout this recording time, though, there are gigs to play, starting with a gig on September 22nd, 1995 at Les Nuits Botaniques festival in Brussels, Belgium. This would appear to have been the first proper Divine Comedy band gig since 1992, with a line-up of Neil, Joby, Bryan, Grant Gordon, and possibly Ivor Talbot on guitar, who joins the band from the road crew at some point during 1995. Grant remembers: A couple of support tours for Gene and Supergrass kick off 1996, plus a handful of headlining gigs, including two in March at London’s tiny “Water Rats” venue, one of which is recorded by a member of the audience and later given to Neil, who later includes “The Dogs and the Horses” from this show on the “Casanova” 2020 bonus disc. This marks the only officially available live recording available of Grant Gordon as the band’s drummer, as disaster then strikes when he manages to badly injure himself in a football game. Grant remembers: However, he keeps on playing with the band as a percussionist and backing singer during the band’s TV appearances, before finally leaving. And so, the line-up that would become “The Divine Comedy” for the next 5 years is in place, and the “Casanova” album is finally released on the 15th of April, 1996 (in France) and 29th of April elsewhere. But an explosion in the band’s popularity is still only one of Neil’s dreams at the moment... TO BE CONTINUED...
Hi again, Just to say that tomorrow we will kick off with “Casanova”, I will post some background info on the album from a couple of sources, plus reproduce some of what Neil has to say in his new sleeve notes by way of context about why the album seems to be entirely about sex, and not always in the nicest of contexts. Then we will see how we go and whether anyone is actually back from holidays before I go ahead and start discussion on “Something for the Weekend”, as it’s such a key song in the DC history it would be a real shame to start discussing it before most people are ready.
A very good friend of mine was part of the Abbey Road session for The Dogs and the Horses. He was studying in London with the other players on the session before coming to Glasgow for a Post Grad and Masters. We enjoyed a good few drinks while he reminisced about the experience. Better was to come on the Short Album tour but I will save that tale for the appropriate time.
Orchestras are traditionally recorded in Abbey Road studio 1 while band stuff is Studio 2 (the Beatles room). Did they squeeze an orchestra into 2 or was it recorded with the band in 2 and the orchestra in 1?
His account pretty much ties in with what we already know... a bunch of music college students helping out a mate (Joby) in return for a few drinks afterwards. The attraction of recording at Abbey Road was a huge enticement for many..... when I got to know Dougie the following year, our friendship was formed over The Divine Comedy and me watching The Italian Job for the first time.
Studio 2 is pretty big, and it was only ~35 musicians, not the full symphony orchestras Studio 1 is set up to deal with. See this MusicTech article for pictures of both studios in orchestra set ups. And Joby, Neil and Grant all reference Studio 2 only. So yes, probably all squeezed into Studio 2 (Joby says they did Absent Friends the same way).
That makes sense. I visited AR years back and 1 is a BIG room for a full orchestra while 35 could have fit in Studio 2 snugly. I didn't realise it was only a small combo so Studio 2 would have done fine. It IS a magical place though, especially for a lifelong fabs fanatic.
Here, then, is what Neil has to say about Casanova as a whole in his new sleevenotes. Following this, I'll post some more factual info from various places around the internet as I get the time during today, and then I'll aim to kick off with "Something for the Weekend" by the end of today, and probably leave it up for comment until Monday morning. Neil says: (much abbreviated by me for reasons of RSI and eye strain!): While researching these reissues I found a small essay, at the beginning of one of my notebooks, about how to approach my next record. It begins: "How to become rich and famous without selling your soul." [...] It is terrifying just how explicitly I voice my ambitions - "I always said that No. 3 would be the big push." I wanted it so badly. It sounds a trifle calculating, but I could see which way the cultural wind was blowing. This didn't mean that I was preparing to change my style in order to be successful. Quite the reverse. Things were shifting in my direction. I just needed to seize the moment. [...] By the time Pulp released His 'n' Hers in '94 I was getting desperate. This scene was made for me! I couldn't get left behind. Proud as I was of "Promenade", "The Booklovers" was never going to get me on "Top of the Pops". And the thought of making lovely little albums in virtuous virtual obscurity filled me with genuine horror. Proper pop stars - I mean really good ones - are to me, the pinnacle of human achievement. [...] To be on "Top of the Pops" was to infiltrate the pantheon of the immortals. [...] It also, I presumed, substantially improved your chances of getting laid. A strange and welcome improvement had already taken place in my love life since the minor success of "Lib" and "Prom". [...] France was particularly receptive to "Promenade" for some reason*. And I was particularly receptive to the French - especially the mademoiselles. I didn't whore my way around Europe or anything. Nights of passion were still few and far between. But it was obvious what the next record would be about. You don't spend that many years in the wilderness, dreaming of the promised land, without writing a few jolly tunes about it when you finally get there. [...] I didn't want a relationship, I wanted a whole lunch of relationships! [...] Frustratingly, though, my conscience refused to play ball. It bothered me that I seemed to be taking on the characteristics of men that a sensitive bookish chap like myself ought to disparage. Could it be that I was becoming rather like Michael Caine's Cockney Lothario, Alfie? (Ooh, quick, write that down...)[...] To the post #metoo era, some of the lyrics on "Casanova" can seem a tad problematic. Certainly the most lecherous moments make me wince. However, I disapprove of revisionism on the whole. Any creative endeavour is naturally a product of its time and place. A 20-year-old today has been reared on a completely different diet of news, views and sexual mores to those of someone 30 years their senior. I grew up watching the "Carry On" team 'ooh er missus'-ing, and the Two Ronnies double-entendre-ing. The 'right-on' 1980s, quite rightly, chucked it all out and started again. Every generation, however, likes to set itself apart from the last, and my lot said: well, it might have been sexist, but it was also naughty, high camp fun. Perhaps we can co-opt the 'nudge nudge, wink wink' stuff into a postmodern parody of old-fashioned machismo. "Austin Powers" did much the same thing a year or two later. Some of it, I admit, was an exercise in mildly provocative attention seeking. But my Terry Thomas impressions, booby-trap innuendoes and generous helpings of slap 'n' tickle were designed to be entertaining and thought-provoking -never offensive.[...] I think Keith [Cullen] and his right-hand man Fergal Hickey could see the potential in the demos I'd made. I warned them that this record would need a lot more than a couple of weeks in a cheap studio. As luck would have it, Setanta were feeling quite flush in '94/'95 due to the success of Edwyn Collins' brilliant "A Girl Like You". It also, I think gave Keith the confidence to invest in future potential hits. In the end it took eleven and a half weeks in ten different cheap studios to make "Casanova", from June to December 1995**. *for some reason = because it was deliberately targeted at the French, eh, @The Booklover ? ** slightly different info to what's on Ashortsite, but given that ashortsite has a very specific studio date for the last session at Milo, I'm inclined to believe it...
Ok then, here we go... Casanova (The Divine Comedy album) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Studio album by the Divine Comedy Released 29 April 1996 Recorded June 1995 – January 1996 Genre Britpop[1] orchestral pop Length 51:52 Label Setanta Producer Darren Allison Neil Hannon Casanova is the fourth studio album by the Divine Comedy. It was the band's commercial breakthrough. It was released on Setanta and certified Gold in the UK in July 1997. This was helped by the release of the album's first single "Something for the Weekend" which reached number 13 on the charts. Two other singles released from the album, "Becoming More Like Alfie" and "The Frog Princess", charted at 27 and 15 respectively. Composition Treble writer A.T. Bossenger wrote that Neil Hannon "started going for a more straightforward pop tone as the base for his songwriting" for Casanova, resulting in the album having a more Britpop flow to it.[1] Its central theme is sex, around which all songs on the album centre, except "The Dogs and the Horses", which is the last song on the album and whose theme is death.[1] "The Dogs and the Horses" is very close to the musical style of Scott Walker's first four solo albums. "Through a Long & Sleepless Night", a track off Casanova, shares the same title as a track off Scott's first solo album. Two of the album's songs were originally composed by Hannon as potential theme tunes for the 1995 sitcom Father Ted. Hannon's first attempt was rejected, and he reworked it to become "A Woman of the World". His second attempt was accepted and used as the theme for the series; however, Hannon later reworked it, played on harpsichord (rather than the series' guitar), to become "Songs of Love". Recording Casanova had the longest recording period of any Divine Comedy album up to that point and consequently cost more. Setanta was able to indulge Neil Hannon's desire because of the success of Edwyn Collins' hit single "A Girl Like You." Although more musicians were involved than on Liberation and Promenade, for most of the album, as with the previous two albums, Neil Hannon plays the majority of the parts himself, with co-producer/drummer Darren Allison directing proceedings.[2] The album's last track "The Dogs and the Horses", which was recorded at Abbey Road Studios, features a large orchestral ensemble which includes future members of the live band, namely Joby Talbot, Stuart 'Pinkie' Bates, Grant Gordon, and Bryan Mills. Talbot was beginning to play an increasingly important role in the band; he arranged and orchestrated "The Dogs and the Horses," and he co-arranged "Theme from Casanova" with Hannon.
