Tired of the Technics vs Rega Turntable debate?

No I rather enjoy it.

 

Throwing in a curved ball again. What has my Systemdek got to do with it? Well I’m sort of stealing from Rega’s braced plinth idea in creating an alloy/wood block board sandwich in the sub chassis.

Meanwhile a useful tip for owners of both Systemdek IIXs and Buell or Harley Sportster motorcycles; I had another lucky find today. The Systemdek bearing was a bit low on oil, but I couldn’t locate my bottle of EP80. The next best thing on the shelf was Harley Davidson Formula Plus gear and tranny oil. Without wishing to start an ‘oil thread’ I used the HD oil and?......wow! The bearing has never been so quiet. The noise floor dropped even further so that I could hear the drum skins and low frequencies better. Well at least it saves me having to buy more gear oil especially.

Yeah, love these debates!

 

Technics video

 

Rega video

(both turntables could not be more different, obviously. What you are after in a turntable will determine which one is best for YOU)

 

The Planar 1 shares very little with any other Rega turntable. Rega starts at the top and replaces the most expensive options with the best value alternatives to arrive at the next lower tier decks. Most of their higher end decks just change a few items to arrive at the next more affordable unit. Once they got down to the Planar 2, that was basically it for the original Planar design. They started almost from scratch with the Planar 1, keeping the basic form and function by using the original dustcover and AC motor, a similar plinth and layout. The arm, platter, main bearing, and plinth are all different. Still, it and the entry level Music Hall and Pro-Ject decks are the cheapest turntables that I would recommend anyone buy. They all offer reasonable performance and longevity, and all take way better care of records and allow the use of pretty much and MM cartridge. The Rega can also accommodate MC carts, and I have found there is less to go wrong with them, so they hold up for decades even though they are not really a good representation of the Rega sound or build quality. The first Planar 1 was released in 2005, probably under protest from many at Rega, and as more of a reaction to the market realities of cheaper offerings by Pro-Ject, etc. Basically their dealers must have asked for something cheaper just to retain that market share of the bottom end of the Hi-Fi market. Racing to the bottom is never a good idea IMO. If you must, they are decent decks compared to others at that price or less, but it's better to save-up until you can reach at least the Planar 2 level.
-Bill

 

I don't get this approach, as if you really cared about the numbers, you'd be listening to a digital source.

I'd have various turntables over the years, mostly rapidly changing in my misspent mid 2os to mid 30s- a pair of Technics 1210, Technics SL-D2, Garrard SP25, a couple of Pr0-Jects, NAD 5120 and currently an OG Rega Planar 2 with the wood surround.

I'm very happy with the Planar 2, and to be honest, any of the turntables I've owned over the years. However, the one I miss the most is probably the worst technically, but the one I had the most fun with- the Garrard SP25.

 

If pitch is suitably stable, if what I hear sounds good and gives me substantial musical enjoyment, and if the turntable has good usability and looks good then it's job done.

Any technological considerations behind what I hear are secondary to these things. My ears, brain and heart are the measurement instruments that I use.

 

Yes, some people here should get a life and try to have more fun with hifi!

I guess I just couldn’t get into either of the makes being debated here after hearing an LP12/Valhalla/Ittok/K18 playing through an 80s Exposure pre-power and Roark Broadsword speakers at the 1989 Bristol hifi show. It was just hypnotic. Lucky set up I guess? I have been amazed at how that old sprung deck seemed to expound what was in the grooves way beyond the sum of the decks components. I’ve experienced this a few times with Linns. For years I put this down to euphonic feedback through the springs and top plates. I am still curious about the stainless top plate being bowed then tensioned into position. This gives the deck a nice clean look with hidden fixings, but did they not covertly build in an energising device? The way the Ittok arm also seems to have a synergy with this set up also intreagues me. The fact that different surround wood types on the Linn can affect the sound implies some sort of transmission is going on, but.....
Spring suspended decks can be made to deliver a kind of magic. Ok so my Roksan is not exactly sprung, but that’s another complicated story!
I just fitted my 42 year old Ittok to my modded Systemdek and it’s playing the same trick as some LP12s. There is a similar ‘muscular’ presentation of the music and a power in the notes as the volume is turned up. This power also makes listening at low volumes late at night such a pleasure. This deck was not quite up to the Ittok previously, but now after hours of tweaking the vocals and harmonics coming out of the speakers are just gorgeous. It trounces my old MDF plinth Xerxes at the moment, not in every department such as pitch stability, but it’s easier on the ears by some way and resolution is up even with the same cartridge.

Not all tweaks can be expected to work immediately. I did worry that using the same material in the armboard as the subchassis was causing a homogeneity to the sound as the new arm board is thicker than standard, but further tweaking seems to have overcome this effect. I think that over use of wood can create a ‘one note’ effect to the SQ if the wood becomes an energy sink and is not used in composite form with alternating grain patterns or in conjunction with other materials. I will try a thinner armboard or other materials or a mix, but will keep all current modded parts so I don’t lose anything gained so far. You know you have something good when you start digging out all your favourite LPs to try again to a new level and type of resolution.

Note that all these gains were without quartz locked direct drive or regulated speed controller for my Systemdek other than the basic 50hz mains circuit it came with. Despite this in isolation it seems to be keeping quite good time with the music playing at the moment. This leaves me wondering why Technics and Rega owners are so sensitive to their own speed regulation or feel the need to endlessly argue about it. Yes that precision is good to have, but is there nothing else going on with their decks to talk about?

 

Agree - developing a good TT is "easier" (lower cost) using beltdrive, nothing wrong with that. A DD drive TT requires quite a lot more in engineering and design but assuming a beltdrive is always better then a DD is a great mistake. There are "crap" in both drive selections, also the Technics SL-1200 was originally designed for professional use and spec's according the this usage.

What technical sollution used to create a good product depends on budget and ambition, Wallmart or HighEnd boutique. I've been surprised by Lenco L75, Harman Kardon T40 and JVC JL-A1 who all are quite basic TT's but with some care and love, and a good PU, delivers more then expected. So - what is my concesus? Actually no idea, other then we all have different preferences, likes and hates. In the end; What makes You, as a user and listener, happy and pleased is right and true.

(BTW - Denon DP 37F with AT VM530en/RigB (to be upgraded w. ml-stylus), Denon DL-110 and Nagoka MP-200. Installed on headshells, peoperly setup and only need to adjust stulys force.
did have a ADC ZLM but not really for the DP 37, great PU for a TT with low mass tonearm though.)

 

I have the offending Technics Army/anti Rega posters on ignore. And they for sure have me on ignore as I wouldn't let em get away with their biased opinions.

I feel the Neo with speed controller is the best way to get the Regas to sound their best. My tricked out P5 will be my last turntable and sounds fabulous.

 

In my previous post I was trying to suggest that the speed and timing of ‘music’ in turntables may not just be dependent on absolute accuracy of turntable rotational speed. I’m sorry if it seems like I lumped Rega fans together with some ‘empirically obsessed’ DD fans. I did not mean to. I can see that if you touch all the bases in Regas philosophy of lightness, rigidity and inertness that the last piece of the jigsaw for Rega owners beyond their ultimate minimalist skeleton plinth must be getting the most accurate Rega motor controller.

I possibly ventured down this particular ‘rabbit hole’ over 25 years ago when I tried pairing my Roksan’s XPS3.5 motor controller with the ‘reference’ DS1 power supply unit. Due to the Xerxes being prone to over criticising itself, that made it critical of too many of my records. Maybe I should have just traded my deck for a Linn, but I love a challenge.

I’ve not spent enough time playing known records with Rega’s ultimate ‘skeletal’ designs to know how critical they are of lesser vinyl pressings or how good they are with a wide range of vinyl quality. And I am still trying to locate a demo of a Technics 1200G, but ultimately I would probably still want to strip a Technics down then try to build the mechanicals and electrics into a hardwood / alloy sandwiched plinth......possibly with a top Rega arm of course!

 

@Roland Bart, when you posted your "just buy Technics" comment, you were fairly new to the forum, so possibly wouldn't know just why there is a lack of humour in the Rega / Technics threads.

I am in no way anti-Technics, but some of the Rega bashing and on the Technics thread, almost outrage and denial when the cheapest current Linn Sondek LP12 (Majik spec) came top in a magazine review (so what), that also included the Technics SL-1200G is either not very funny, or comical and bordering on libelous, depending on your opinion.

Yes, there are some Rega and owners of other belt drive turntables that have made anti-DD drive comments, some of which are inacurate about Technics, especially the new generation of models, but there are some Technics zealots who literally spring up on any turntable thread, who my their own admission haven't actually listened to a post 2016, yet alone current, (which means post 2021) specification Rega making very derogatory comments.

I'm sorry, but no, I don't find that funny.

Surely if a Rega was as poor as some make out, a Technics' owner should have no fear about someone actually listening to a Rega in comparison to a Technics? The fact that both Rega and Technics are very successfully selling turntables, and that in listening comparisons not everyone prefers the Technics, your comment hardly added to the debate. I recommend friends audition both Rega and Technics.

Apart from the fact that I have owned a couple of Regas and was a Rega dealer 25 years ago, I recommend anyone interested, to simply listen for themself. Despite also being a Linn dealer and personally preferring to use a LP12 for over 20 years, if I could use a turntable now, I would listen to Linn, Rega, Technics and alternatives with an open mind and attentive, but older ears and reassess the merits of each - all have improved considerably in recent years. One size does not fit all.

Whatever you prefer, there are some fantastic turntables on the market, though few, can match the speed accuracy of the British, Optical Servo, Direct Drive, Gale GT2101 from -



1974

GALE GT2101


Edit. @Big Blue, speed accurate turntables can still sound very different! Despite our (hopefully open-minded and fun exchanges), I am in no way implying that your Technics is not an outstanding turntable and that it is not the perfect solution for you, simply those with marginally better, worse, or no specification, can also play records to a very high level and that there is continuous development by many manufacturers.

Sincerely, happy listening to all.

 

Rega have both raced to the bottom as well as the top. They had very limited sales of their high end amplifier and CD player in the UK when launched with rumoured heavy discounts. Traditionally they are not regarded as either a high end or entry level company but one that continues to offer reasonable value for money through most of the range. Not easy to cover all market sectors but the P1 sales have probably financed developments further up the range. It is probably the limit to which non audiophiles will spend on a turntable.

 

Linn did the same thing as the Rega P1 with their entry level ‘Basik’ turntable years ago. It is supposed to get new younger or more cost conscious buyers interested in the brand, but I think there is a risk that it can diminish people’s expectations of what the premium models can achieve. Linn started to release a number of more budget orientated products in the 90s which were over hyped in my view. Maybe Randoms knows more about that period.

This lowering of expectations is what happened with Roksan during it’s changes of ownership some years ago when the marketing men started to demand lower to mid price products throughout the range. Admittedly the cost of Roksan stuff had started to get silly in the late 90s. But from what I could see this down marketing detracted from the high end products like the TMS record player or the M1 pre power amps, which were on a par with Audio Research to my ears. The changes left the company in a sort of limbo to my mind, being neither recognised widely as high end or budget. Maybe that was why Touraj left to form Vertere to continue his record player developments. I’ve not listened to a direct demo yet, but my old dealer at Midlands Audio eXchange now an agent for Vertere. I should have bought a Vertere speed controller which were compatible with older Roksan’s for a while before my XPS7 expired, but that window has now closed. Heed Orbit anyone?

 

I Remember sitting in a Linn dem were they compared an LP12 with Basic. When the audience (probably mainly regular people and not hi-fi nuts) were asked to choose which sounded best to them more hands went up for The Linn Basic by far. Differences were not a slam dunk though I could hear were the Linn LP12 was better but not necessarily if your ear was not tuned or experienced in listening to various components of different levels. Basic and more so the Axis gave you a high percentage of the LP12 and honestly an Axis when launched sounded tighter in the bass to me and less coloured.

 

Yep, I agree. Rega lowered their standards a bit to make the P1, but I would not call it "the bottom" of the market by a long shot. They also have shown their capabilities at the top of the market with their top offerings in amps and turntables primarily, but also in CD playback. So while the P1 is their bottom, not even really the bottom of the Hi-Fi market IME, it is far from the dregs that most of the major mfrs have released. Most all of the old Japanese brands have new, Chinese made junk for sale these days. The Planar 1 is like a Titan compared to those.
-Bill

 

A turntable can have extremely good measurements and still be an excellent sounding analogue source.

Before buying my first turntable, a 1980 Rega Planar 3, I did read a JVC turntable brochure, where you could compare the specifications. Later, a friend bought his JVC turntable over, which was slightly more expensive than the £146 Rega and we both marginally preferred my Rega through a NAD 3020B and KEF Coda II loudspeakers.

That JVC brochure was the only time I deliberately took turntable specs home to read, as regardless of the specification of that 1980 Rega, listening to records played on it was a very enjoyable experience.

 

Yeah, the Axis was a nice deck. It did away with the suspension for rubber feet. That should please both Rega and Technics fans.
-Bill

 

Similar experience to mine. I replaced a Denon DP-52F with my first Planar 3, around 1990 I suppose. I used to read all the specs back in the '80s, as makers would have tons of literature back then and you could not always see or hear every brand or model, even with a lot of real Hi-Fi dealers back then. Magazine ads often had that info and products were sold in the '70s by spec. The revelation came that not all that glittered was gold, only after listening. A '60s Mac tube amp connected to a tiny pair of LS3/5a speakers left me scratching my head about the bigger, feature adorned Japanese fare. As did the Rega Planar 3 compared to the Denon DD deck. I preferred the Denon to the Pioneer and Technics DD decks, by I was frankly surprised that I preferred the Rega sonically. I bought it to be the cure for electronics woes on the complex Japanese decks and only had hopes for it being "about as good" as the DD tables, yet I was pleasantly surprised by it's sound. There is way more to a turntable than its motor.
-Bill

 

Whilst a couple of Rega dealers I know from when I was a Rega dealer chose not to demonstrate the original 2005 Planar 1 (as I wouldn't), the 2021 Planar PL1 is a completely different beast and certainly one of those dealers now has it on demonstration.

It is down to the individual to decide how good, or not it is. BUT, it is certainly not that 2005 model any obviously not as good as a current Planar 2, or 3.

 

Yes, and I am actually finding out how much better new Planar 1 is over the old Planar 2 and even 3. Enough of the improvements are trickling down generation by generation that the lower models have much more to offer. I wish that Rega would go back on one thing. And offer it again as an optional.

I would like an improved, new R200 tonearm (with the common headshell) and the improvements Rega has done with the RB series arms, as a separate item, and no cost or low cost optional on their Planar 1 and 2 turntables. Choice and options are great. I need and want that back for functional and operational reasons. Which also didn't help my love of Rega for too long.

 

I celebrate the P1. If it brings more into the hobby and guides them away from Crosleys etc then it's ok by me.

 

At 422 posts now, and apparently still going strong, I guess the answer to the question, "Tired of the Technics vs Rega Turntable debate?", is a resounding NO, at least for a few people around here


Can't say I'd miss this thread if it didn't pop up again, it is pretty tired.

 

I personally believe that it has gradually morphed into one of the better threads and there is adult discussion from music lovers who care about good quality sound, with a good balance between both Rega and Technics followers, and owners of other brands. Your mileage obviously varies, so you can happily ignore my reply!

 

Rega seems to be only taken seriously on this forum. The stuff is junk and overpriced.