Tired of the Technics vs Rega Turntable debate?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by AKA-Chuck G, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. edd2b

    edd2b Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Country UK
    Yes that is a good point. There are many who think that the world is their oyster for £299 (insert currency or denomination of your choice), or for whom a hifi comes in one box for much less, but the cost of engineering anything of quality today has left many of them behind! :rolleyes:

    I have always run old bangers or low mileage old cars so that I could spend more on new hifi or motorbikes. :cool: But I often meet people who could afford much better systems than they have. They have often just overlooked or not been shown the possibilities or they see the money spent on a cruise as of better value. To which I say;”ok, but when you get back you’ll have a tan and some nice holiday snaps, but I’ll still have an amazing record deck!” Yes a P1 might start to sway those people. :agree:

    It also makes me wince to see what crude pick up devices some chisel their lovely old records with. I often advise such unfortunates to be kinder to their records by at least buying a half decent MM cartridge, and hopefully encourage them to ask a dealer to actually play them an entry level hifi deck......for the sake of the records if nothing else! :sigh:
     
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  2. Vinyl is final

    Vinyl is final Not Insane - I have a sense of humor

    Location:
    South central, KY
    I wouldn't call it junk, but I do think it's overpriced. I feel the same way about uTurn, and I have one (a "plus" with built in pre-amp). It's my only belt drive and I've learned to despise the method - in its modern usage. My old Technics SL-23 back in the early 70's had a speed switch and even pitch control. The motor and belt was hidden by the platter and that thing worked flawlessly. The modern ones that have a belt outside the platter are just a nuisance. I keep knocking the belt off when I pick up or place a record. And when I apply any pressure with the discwasher the record stops turning. Sure, my Kenwood KD-500 does too, but I manually spin it by pushing on the outside of the platter. Can't do that with the uTurn without knocking the belt off.

    And I use the cheapie Audio Technica ATLP 120 USB (that I bought used for $150 7 years ago) to play 45's, 78's and "rough" 33's. And I also use it in '78 mode with its high torque to pre-clean records when a bit more pressure is needed. The Yamaha PF-50 (the one in my avatar) is just a fun one to use for all my LP's.

    I'm whittling down my turntables to three and I'll be selling the uTurn and going back to all DD. It's just way too convenient and trouble free. And they are all dead quiet - at least to my ears.
     
  3. Slimpickens

    Slimpickens Forum Resident

    Location:
    Las Vegas
    :doh:
     
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  4. Vinyl is final

    Vinyl is final Not Insane - I have a sense of humor

    Location:
    South central, KY
    I need to throw this out about that: They not only have a tan and some pictures, but they have memories. Have you never tried out Rekall? ;)

    Seriously, though. In my youth I could never understand paying lots of money for experiences rather than stuff. That completely turned around in my early 40's. I mean 180 degrees. The memories matter a lot more than I realized. They actually shape who you are. Stuff can too, in a way. I have a nice sports car and also a true beater that I LOVE to drive. However, other drivers and people treat me completely differently, depending on which one I drive up in. So there is that. But the older I get the less it matters. ;)
     
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  5. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    I personally don't have anyone on ignore, though some names you know are either going to say, buy a SL-1200GR, or all turntables sound the same!

    If all turntables sound the same, why spend that amount on the (excellent) SL-1200GR?

    Yes, I believe the NEO is a very good upgrade. A friend owned the previous generation (RP?) 6 with the T/T PSU and we both thought the NEO a worthwhile improvement, yet alone without the T/T PSU.

    He also got a large contribution to the NEO by selling on the T/T PSU to another Rega owner who was also pleased with the upgrade: win / win / win!

    Edit. Obviously the Technics turntables comes with a very good drive system as standard, but if ever a product demonstrates that there is far more to a turntable's performance than going round at the correct speed, it is a belt drive turntable power supply.
     
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  6. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Having owned a Sportster Sport, then yes, their oil tries to reduce some of the mechanical noise, though with Screaming Eagle, slash pipes any reduction in the transmission noise floor was somewhat irrelevant!
     
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  7. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    In the UK it isn't overpriced. Not my choice for a TT but the arms and phono stages are really good for the outlay. The latest turntables sound much better than of old They certainly aren't junk except maybe the earlier P1 unless you gauge sound quality by weight.
     
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  8. edd2b

    edd2b Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Country UK
    Yes I get that, but just cruising every other year might make the memories more special.....and save the planet?
    I feel the same as you about memories as I get older and I am also slightly addicted to distance riding/driving , but.....I guess I was more of a winter Alpine skier than a summer cruiser. In more recent years I have been more into ‘destination perception restorative therapy’, ie taking mini breaks nearer to home. :laugh: Living in England has its benefits despite the weather! There is also the zen realisation that you only need to go half an hour to an hour from home to find magical places.....and people if you have a mind to! :agree:

    I guess that’s why I also love tweaking turntables. Everything within a less than 2 cu ft box can be worked at home to produce a kind of magic. It’s also creative! :angel: Even if you are not a DIY type, you can have fun mixing and matching hifi components to find your own kind of magic at your own price point. Hifi! ;)
     
  9. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Don't gauge Belt drives by the U turn. It is US made down to a price. Have used Michell decks for years that have a rim belt drive and no issues, but of course they are in whole different price bracket and build quality. Same goes for Direct Drives. Cheap models do come up short. Something like the 1200G is another league in build and sound quality over budget models. Good engineering does no longer come cheap especially with the price mark ups by importers and retailers.
     
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  10. Ste_S

    Ste_S Forum Resident

    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    Quite. Was going to post something similar. The P1/2/3 are all significantly cheaper than Technics' entry level, the 1500C, and are good value here in the UK.

    I find the hatred towards Rega from some of our American cousins quite baffling.
     
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  11. Slimpickens

    Slimpickens Forum Resident

    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Not sure why folks care enough to bash equipment, must be over compensating. :uhhuh:
     
  12. PhotoMax

    PhotoMax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orcas Island
    Sadly this is just the way Internet forums function. I used to be a primary moderator of a DSLR filmmaking forum. The unknown level of grief of herding cats while maintaining peace was simply exhausting!

    Some topics and brands just get folks all worked up. Often the source of this spirit comes from hearsay or experience from decades ago.

    The reality of audio chat is that forum members will sometimes advocate that their own purchase decision as the single best option, regardless of the budget and system synergy presented by those asking for guidance.

    One of the poster childs for this arena is the Linn LP12. Just mentioning this venerable turntable gets people worked up.

    Sigh!

    In this crazy dangerous world just be thankful that this silly stuff matters…
     
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  13. Vinny123

    Vinny123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I have a Rega P1 that I bought around 20 years ago. It has the original OM5 cartridge that I upgraded w an OM10 stylus and a nice deerskin mat. I only listen to LP’s about 10 percent of my listening time. I’m using the phono stage of a Jolida Musical Envoy tube preamp. To me, the tt sounds very nice and enjoyable. I have to say that in all the years that I’ve owned the P1 I’ve never had a single problem w it. It still looks brand new. I know there’s way better tables out there but for my needs but I’m quite satisfied. I’ve looked at direct drive tables like the Technics and Pioneer but for my use I just don’t feel the need.
     
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  14. Instant Dharma

    Instant Dharma Dude/man

    Location:
    CoCoCo, Ca
    Wow….would not be surprised to see this thread gone soon. Not sure if calling these posters out is at all necessary.
     
  15. Night Version

    Night Version Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas
    Agree that the price is closer to what it should be in UK. The distributer arrangement kills the value in US.
     
  16. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    @Vinny123, I'm really pleased that you've put this in print. Whilst the original P1 fell below my expectation of what a Rega turntable should be, both from having used a couple of Regas myself and being an ex-Rega dealer, I also know full well that in all probability it is a lot better than 99%+++ of turntables in use.

    Despite the unfortunate snobbery that can occur in Hi-Fi, the fault free pleasure of music that it has given you with your records, doesn't surprise me in the least.

    Happy listening!
     
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  17. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    In the UK, Rega turntables obviously have a price advantage over imported ones and come with a lifetime warranty. In my retail days, Rega were a joy to work with, easily in the top three for both reliability and customer care. Customers also enjoyed their music player on a Rega turntable!!

    A Rega owner had a big accident with a RB300 arm, hardly normal usage, totally destroying it. Rega chose to replace it free of charge.

    It is very unfortunate that some distributors of many brands around the world, not only water down the values of a manufacturer, but add a big mark up too.

    Edit. My experiences in dealing with Rega were in the UK from the early eighties to mid nineties: it would be interested to hear @KT88's opinion in dealing with Rega now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2022
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  18. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Yes, I get that, the Basik being a stripped down Axis, with an unfinished, inside outer platter, cheaper material on the inner platter and pulley and without the very clever electrics which the Axis enjoyed. Both the Axis and Basik used the old LP12 lid moulding and a previous generation LP12 bearing housing liner and tolerances: the Basik was engineered down to a price.

    The Basik really came along too late (1989) to challenge the Rega Planar 3 dominance and whilst the later version with plinth edging looked good and did outperform the Rega, it was probably a bit too expensive as the Axis wasn't vastly more costly, but was was far better.

    The Axis was / is a very nice turntable. My brother still uses one with Akito, originally with a Linn K18 mk II and more recently the AT, VM95ML.

    The Axis had speed adjustment for both 33 and 45 and comfortably outperformed both the Basik and Planar 3. I think it was Martin Dalgleish who understood the benefits of the rubber suspension material they used and came up with the clever design.

    @Classicrock, I remember the Linn rep telling me about a dem that had gone very wrong - I don't know if it was the one you attended, but the Six Ps came into the equation...

    I have never heard, or performed a demonstration where a LP12 / Valhalla / Akito / K9 didn't outperform an Axis / Akito / K9 and when you added a Lingo to the LP12, the improvement over the Axis was very obvious.

    @edd2b, I'm not sure what more budget orientated Linn products you mean from the nineties being over hyped, as Linn had close to zero mention in the UK Hi-Fi press as they did not advertise in them. For the Linn dealers who either didn't give up (or have the Linn account taken away for multiple and repeated breach of contract), Linn's products performed extremely well in comparison to the (heavily and expensively advertised!) magazine favourites.

    Yes, I know that period fairly well!
     
  19. haz2000

    haz2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    nowhere
    I like Rega products but never owned a Rega TT because they look so flimsy. Even as you go up the range, the plinth becomes smaller. Tne P8 almost doesn't have a plinth. It almost looks like a kite. In that way, it's like the Exposure brand. It doesn't weigh anything, kind of flimsy and not insanely priced but still costly enough to give you pause.

    I couldn't pay more than 2000 USD for a new P8 because it does look like it cost nothing to make. If you're going to ask me for 4000 USD, make the thing weigh 15 kg at least. Make the platter out of something that can't be duplicated at the local window repair shop. Even if it sounds amazing, it shouldn't look like it could be sent flying away by a gentle breeze.

    I have no interest in knocking a brand but this is why I never picked up a Rega TT. I would get an Origin Live TT with a Rega arm because it doesn't look as homemade as a Rega. Perhaps part of the expense is that Rega products are still made in the UK. Good on them for that. It's nice to see companies keep things in-house.

    If Rega ever makes a TT that sounds great and is sturdy, I've got 10,000 USD at the ready. Rega is a storied brand but I could never justify the expense. What was the model that had a picture frame mounted around the plinth? God, that was hideous. (Found it. The P7)

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Vinny123

    Vinny123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Appreciate it!
     
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  21. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I can assure you nothing on the P8 can be knocked up by a window repair shop or a basic woodworker. The material and adhesives used are all pretty special and difficult to manufacture or machine. Rega design is based on lighter and less plinth is equal to improved sound. If you want something heavy there are alternatives that are often more expensive in ratio to sound quality.
     
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  22. Vinyl is final

    Vinyl is final Not Insane - I have a sense of humor

    Location:
    South central, KY
    Hey, you forgot the popcorn!
    I really loved that post. You and I are on the same page and you said it really well. BTW, since the pandemic started we don't fly any more. That means our two trips to seattle in the last 18 months from our home in south central KY were driven. And we very much enjoyed both trips. We also circumnavigated the western US (~3,500 miles) on our honeymoon in 1998. We even blew out the radiator in Moab and discovered the majic of JB Weld and turning a coke can into a sheet of aluminum.
     
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  23. LeBud

    LeBud Born to be mild

    Location:
    Ottawa
    Interesting that so many people got worked up in this brand debate. In the end you get what you pay for regardless of which side of the fence you're on.
    Good TT's need to be built to very strict specs and with solid engineering ... two things that don't come cheap !

    In my case I went for an Avid TT... at the price point I paid the Avid checked more boxes for me than either Rega or Technics.
    Is the Avid perfect ? Nope, but when the time comes to upgrade I'll probably end up with something else than those two brands again.
     
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  24. Vinyl is final

    Vinyl is final Not Insane - I have a sense of humor

    Location:
    South central, KY
    Hey, you forgot the popcorn!
    I know people keep saying the cheap DD's come up short, but my ATLP120USB that I bought used is fantastic, as far as playing records goes. Sure, the cue lever has lost its damping, but that's not a big deal to me for that one.

    My biggest complaint about the uTurn is that the belt is exposed. I don't care about having to change pulleys to change speed. I will only play 33's on it. I use the other TT's for other speeds. But yeah, with the really expensive ones even that's not much of an issue. But to use the car analogy, I think most of us are talking about Toyotas, Chevies, Mercedes, Lexus etc. Those more exotic turntables are in the Koenigsegg, McLaren, Lamborghini etc. territory. Not really part of the discussion for most people. But since this is an enthusiast site, the percentage is probably a little higher here.
     
  25. edd2b

    edd2b Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Country UK
    Yes, the Technics dedicated threads do seem to have an element of ‘my turntable used to be conceited, but now it’s perfect!’ :laugh: But as has been observed here we must not get too personal online. We are all entitled to a view. Our east European friends are putting their lives on the line to defend that right! Sorry to mention that here, but it is a truth! :cry:

    I don’t mean to be antagonistic towards those who hold opposing views, but I suspect that if I were to enter those threads by suggesting that the Technics needs a re-plinth it might start a riot!? That would just be taking things to the next level. How would an SL10 compare with a Dr Freikert? I am only guessing but suspect that a wood/alloy plinthed SL might sound similar to that? :shh:
     
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