To Neutral Speaker, or Not to Neutral Speaker...

Just to add, the BBC style Harbeths et al are not what I would call neutral, they are however very natural sounding as they were thoughtfully designed for the applications they were to be used for. I have always found them lovely to listen to at work with speech mostly.

Assuming the ATC are like the PMCs I've worked with they are very neutral, the main issue I found with that is that you can find yourself pounding out some big SPL quite easily.

 

Don't buy neutral they are probably boring, buy coloured speakers, they bring much more to the equation and also give people something to criticize.

 

While there are probably quite a few brands that aim to produce a "neutral" speaker, allow me to go patriotic and suggest both Paradigm and psb as two that at least deserve consideration.

They, and a few others, can trace their "sound" back to the research that they did in collaboration with Dr. Floyd Toole at Canada's National Research Council (my former employer).

Those participants took their products in a variety of directions over time, but at least initially, they maintained a certain sound quality that probably could be described as neutral.

To my ears, Paradigm and psb have stuck with that plan. They seem to offer a range of speakers across a wide spectrum of costs, all while maintaining that neutral character.

Jeff

 

No speakers are 100% neutral. I hate to be the bearer of this news but all speakers are colored in some way. So, the trick to buying a set of speakers is to buy a pair whose colorations you actually like.

It's no good buying what someone else likes or what someone else tells you to like. You actually have to trust your own ears when it comes to this decision.

 

I believe a proper "neutral" speaker system will provide tremendous resolution and detail WITHOUT being annoying.
You, on the other hand, are posing the question with a slant that says tremendous resolution is something an "out of whack" speaker will deliver but an accurate FLAT speaker can not do this.
It's called a "Red Herring" argument.
OR a "Straw Man" argument.
You are ASSUMING facts not in evidence.

I own Harbeths.
They are FLAT and EXCITING and NEUTRAL and have HIGH RESOLUTION at the same time.
Plus they are NOT all that hard to get them to kick butt in a typical home environment that is less than ideal..
YOU, on the other hand, seem to believe that all rooms RUIN the sound, so the whole ideal is pointless...
NOPE.
Rooms can be DEALT WITH if you will study Sumiko Method and read Jim Smith's book "Get Better Sound."

Keep reading..
You have MUCH to learn, grasshopper.

 

Umm... which poster are you replying to?

I ask because, if it’s me, your response is confusing, as it assumes a great many things that I actually did not say and do not believe.
.

 

If what you are saying is true, which speaker would you say is neutral but isn't detailed? Neutral and detailed are indeed inseparable.

 

I read the title as "to neuter a speaker or not neuter a speaker". I didn't know they could reproduce anything other than sound!

 

Pretty much how I heard the Revel F206 speaker. Let me hear the recording without editorializing. I preferred the two-way Revel M22 to the F206 as it imaged better and provided a deeper soundstage.

 

Explains multi-channel though, doesn’t it?
.

 

My experience with neutral is it's boring but as said above it's as much about the upstream gear as the speakers. I can think of more neutral sounding components I've owned, Herron preamp, KR Audio amp, c-j premier 11a, Edge preamp come to mind, that were just boring. Speakers I don't really think of in those terms it's more about the overall feel. All that being said do I even know what neutral sounds like? I am not a trained listener or a musician, just a guy who likes his stereo.

 

The point is: there's detailed, but there's also hyper-detailed, when a component emphasizes details for the sake of "wow"-effect. Neutral speakers are detailed, but don't do this. Listen to ATCs for example: very detailed, but very cohesive sound at the same time (by that i mean that it doesn't artificially separate elements in music and force an isolated element down your throat).

 

Also good to remember that your ears and perception of sound are not neutral. A speaker that measures well will sound louder to you at certain frequencies because our hearing is not flat.

 

This is indeed difficult to determine because we listen to recorded, not live, music and pretty much none of us haven't been at the studio sessions for the records we listen to. But, it is possible to determine a sound that accompanies the component across a wider selection of recordings - if there are such common traits that are always there, that's the coloration. Neutral speakers have great ability to change with the recording.

 

You can put on some pink noise and measure what you have. Many people discover that real-world, speaker position for flattest response is not always best for soundstage.

 

Just get a set of these and call it a day! This is all you need, and your journey will be complete! Sweetest midrange made, you will be mesmerized.

 

ATC SCM 50s? "Only $20-30K at a dealer near YOU!!"

Very nice I'm sure (and I can actually afford them), but I don't think I can justify that kind of outlay to myself.

#sane-or-a-miser-you-decide
.

 

I'm lucky as I can bring home almost anything from my local salon without even a deposit.

Not that easy to do with things that weigh more than I though. lol

 

Over the next thirty years that's only $2 a day, a bargain, seriously if you can afford them then give them a proper demo, you will either fall in love, (I did), or will know that neutral isn't what you want, as I said previously get the actives if you can.

 

I have never understood this "neutral" paradigm in audiophilia. Grown men looking starry-eyed - ooh, it is completely neutral... You are more than welcome to the dark side of neutral - we have cook err.. pleasing sounding music to our ears.

 

To the OP, Just get a pr of Canton CT-1000 & call it a day.

 

Not sure I'll be around in thirty years. Hope to be.

But a purchase of that magnitude isn't usually done cold-turkey, no matter how awesome the piece. There has to be a 'gateway drug'... aka a reasonably-priced ATC speaker that one auditions, buys, lives with for awhile, and then digs enough that you start moving up the line.

Since it'll be several weeks before I can audition 'em (and I'll actually be auditioning a new source, first), I've done the desperate deed of listening to various speakers on YouTube vids. Yes, yes, we know... terrible way to even begin to evaluate anything. But, it does give you a hint.

And, I have to say... the ATC SCM 11 sure did make the Dynaudio Excite X18 (both around $2K) sound bad in a head-to-head. The Dynaudios sounded veiled and distant and very obviously 'speaker-like' compared to the ATCs. And the ATCs naturalness with vocals and jazz... wow.

Only bad thing I could detect was a distinct lack of bass 'slam' and power, but with small standmounts, that's par for the course. Still, between that and my dealer's rec was impressed enough that I want to audition those and also something bigger in the line.
Hmm, I wonder what the 'sweet spot' in the ATC lineup is?
.

 

I'd say the SCM40 Mk2 if you get one of the "basic" speakers, I also have these. With proper amplification the bass is exceptional, incredibly controlled, fast, detailed and just plain right, always with the right amount. Only after hearing properly set up ATCs did I realise just how important such a level of bass performance to me really is. There are other speakers that can do bass right, I'm just saying to me it was ATC that opened my eyes. The SCM40A (active) could be better if your amp is not top notch, but I went with the passives as I want to get the SL drivers if I'm going active, if I'm going all out. My next and probably final speakers are going to be the SCM150 ASLTs.

 

This is an important point about the tradeoffs in speaker design as well as placement. A speaker with great frequency response might have weaker imaging, or vice-versa. "Neutral" typically refers just to the frequency response characteristics of a speaker, not to the entirety of its sound.

 

Yes, and to repeat from earlier, off-axis really is important to how you use the speakers and how many people typically sit and listen.