Tocaro 40E speakers have landed

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Jtycho, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    I managed to land a home demo of Tocaro 40E's. They're standmount speakers with a 10" single driver. The German company picked up where the French Rehdeko left off. In my limited experience (I own Rehdeko's) these Tocaro's have all of the positive attributes of Rehdeko's with none of the flaws.

    As I spend more time with these I'll update this thread, but for now I can say that they're the most transparent, cohesive (in a Quad ESL way), and quickest speakers (by far) that I've ever heard. They are definitely flawed for some listeners, as they're a bit too truthful if you only listen to classic rock. More to follow.

    [​IMG]

    For reference I've owned these speakers (among others):

    KEF 103.3
    Reynaud Twins
    Reynaud Cantabile Supremes
    Reynaud Offrande Supremes
    Harbeth SHL5's
    Harbeth 30.1's
    Trenner and Friedl Ella's
    Trenner and Friedl Pharoah's
    Rehdeko 115's
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
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  2. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Very good - thanks. I kind of wondered what the connection was to Rehdeko and why white papers on Rehdeko speakers were on the Austin HiFi web site with the Tocaro speaker ads. I thought it was as you said, but could not find the background story.

    (I have JM Reynaud Twins in my bedroom system)
     
  3. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Lovely.
     
  4. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    The Twin Signatures were the first speakers that I really loved, they kind of showed me what was possible. When I traded "up" to SHL5's I was disappointed immediately. Although they were far clearer, more detailed, more refined, with better soundstaging and a greater frequency range, they just couldn't get to the heart of the music in the same way as those little Reynaud's.
     
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  5. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Well my Tocaro demo has turned into an expensive purchase as I've decided to keep them. In short they're the most "real" speakers I've ever heard. I'll give a somewhat proper review after I spend a few more months with them.

    Note this brief report from Robert E. Greene of TAS. His take is similar to mine, but I believe that in time he'd find these to be so uncolored that they only seem colored because he's so used to other speakers which actually are colored. What a mouthful! :)

    http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-show-2015-speakers-under-20000/

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. james

    james Forum Resident

    Location:
    Annapolis
    Congrats. Those looks great...would love to hear them.
     
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  7. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Very nice. Look forward to your report.
     
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  8. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Our own Rafe Arnott did a nice little bit on Tocaro for Audio Travelor. I'd say his analysis was a good one. These are NOT speakers that immediately grab most people. I went to hear these a couple of years ago and was intrigued but also confused by what I heard. BUT I couldn't get the sound out of my head, which lead me to this home demo, which turned into a purchase... Soon I'll be trying out some Crimson gear too.

    http://theaudiotraveler.com/2015/06...nts-tocaro-crimson-linn-and-resolution-audio/

    Oh and Rafe you say that these "don't sound like anything else." I think you're kind of right they don't sound like any other speaker (at least not that I've heard), but they DO sound like music.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
  9. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying the Beauty of "Crystal Clear" Digital

    Can
    I love the fit and finish on these speakers and I assume the little brown round things are to hold the grill cloths on?? Forgive my ignorance, but I just have to ask, if this system offers (1) 10" driver per side, is there any tweeter at all, I assume not, as I thought the tweeter might be incorporated into the woofer where the dust cover is, but it does not look like a tweeter. How can a 10" driver reproduce the upper frequencies in any music material? I just had to ask, as I know nothing about these speakers.:waiting:
     
  10. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Yes the dots are for the grills, a bit unorthodox but they were original to Rehdeko's, which these are modeled after. Honestly I'm bad on technical talk, but it's a full range driver. Wikipedia will better explain that if you're interested: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-range_speaker.

    What's it all mean? It means you can (but not always of course) get a coherence of sound that's nearly impossible with multiple drivers. In close quarters like mine that's a huge plus.
     
  11. looboo

    looboo New Member

    Location:
    London
    Very nice speakers you have there, I would love to read some more about them as I have long had an interest in Tocaro speakers but I have only once had the chance to listen to a pair of 42's, while on a visit to Germany. Being the owner of Rehdeko's I would love to know how they compare long term.
     
  12. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Thanks very much looboo. A couple of years ago I took a trip to see Bob Neill of Amherst Audio as I was intrigued by his comments on Tocaro's on Audio Asylum, and I had been buying gear from him for years, so I knew my taste kind of aligned with him. I was intrigued by the 40D's when I heard them, but they were also so unusual in their presentation that I couldn't pull the trigger on them at the time. Yet over the next year I couldn't get their sound out of my head. I ended up tracking down Rehdeko RK115's just for the fun of it, and they were a fraction of the price of Tocaro's. The Rehdeko's had the qualities I heard at Bob's, they presented vocals and acoustic instruments in a more life-like fashion than I had ever heard. Yet for rock or poorly recorded material they had a honkiness that I found to be brutal. If possible they sounded too real, if that makes sense. BUT what they did right I couldn't ignore.

    I eventually managed an in home demo, and that was that. The Tocaro's with their updated E driver had all of the attributes of the Rehdeko's but with an added smoothness that I personally found to be necessary to make less than perfect recordings tolerable. I've never heard any of the bigger Rehdeko's so I can't comment on them. With much of even the very finest gear there's a somewhat homogeneous quality spewed across all recordings. With Audio Note (which I've owned) everything sounds beautiful, with Harbeth's (owned shl5s and 30.1s) everything is pleasant and natural, but not particularly real. These qualities are appealing, and for many it's exactly what they want, but it never satisfied me. I'm sure you realize this as a Rehdeko owner. Every album I play through Tocaro's has its own signature. Each one is its own unique event. I've never quite heard another speaker do that.
     
  13. looboo

    looboo New Member

    Location:
    London
    Hi Jtycho , thanks for that, I do know exactly what you mean, my brief listen of the Tocaro 42e left a lasting impression on me, very much like the Rehdeko RK150 but with more? I want to use refinement but I am not sure that's quite right. From your description of the 40e in comparison to the RK115 it sounds like a similar improvement with the single driver arrangement. I loved your last comment about every album having its own signature through the Tocaro's, it reminded me of the effect Rehdeko's had on me when I first obtained a pair, every album I played, even really familiar ones, sounded like I had never heard it and that was coming from Quad ESL's. Thanks again and enjoy your beautiful Tocaro's (they do look stunning) . I need to start saving, or maybe sell a pair of Rehdeko's or 3.
     
  14. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    I think refinement is an appropriate word to use in describing Tocaro's vs Rehdeko's (again I have only heard 115's). Somehow the 40e's have that startling clarity of the 115's while also adding a certain smoothness that the 115's lack.

    What electronics do you use? Crimson? DNM?
     
  15. looboo

    looboo New Member

    Location:
    London
    Lots, I have a DNM 3c pre/power combo that is very good with Rehdeko's , but I also use a Graaf GM20 OTL amp that is wonderful and an Audio Note 300b kit 1 which is also very good . I know a lot of people say that Rehdeko's need more power than their sensitivity would suggest, but I find them great with low power valve amps . Currently I am using a pair of RK125's with the Audio Note and they can blast it out with the 8 watts available.
    From your description I think Tocaro's would give me the sound I love while appeasing my wife's hate of Rehdeko's (she finds them painful).
    What amplification do you use with your Tocaro's ?, I have spotted your very nice turntable collection, lovely and the best source for such forensic speakers.
     
  16. beverett

    beverett Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX USA
    Sounds like I need to check out Austin Hifi.
    I had no idea that the US importer/distributor for both Tocaro and Crimson was in my backyard.

    http://www.austinhifi.com/
     
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  17. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Ha so your wife doesn't "get" it? It's the thing I kind of can't figure out, why are people that love music so opposed to this gear when it sounds like actual music? I suppose it's just too much for some people, not comfortable enough maybe, the antithesis of "pipe and slipper" speakers.
    I'm primarily using Crimson gear, but I also have an integrated Tron Atlantic SET which at 12 watts or so provides more than enough power in my small room. I also have a bunch of Blue Circle gear that works surprisingly well. All and all I find that they just need quality (but I think NOT lush) electronics and they'll shine.
     
  18. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    You absolutely should! Though I think Creston (the son) conducts most of the business out of LA now. If you can hear this gear you really should. You may hate it, but at the least it will intrigue you.
     
  19. Jim13

    Jim13 Well-Known Member

    Hi Jtycho, can you tell me what you thought of the T&F Pharoah, and what amp you used.
     
  20. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Hi Jim,

    The Pharoah's are great speakers which I've kept in my living room. They get along very well with the wife because they can be placed so close to the wall. Only in a positive way I say that the Pharoah's are an old fashioned speaker. They have a big, room filling sound that allows you to forget about Hifi and just listen to music. They have detail, but they're certainly not analytical. They're also not rolled off like some old box speakers, they just have that classic presentation taken to its modern best.

    I've used three amps with them: a Blue Circle DAR (integrated hybrid), Blue Circle NSP (SS, just demoed for a few months), and lastly an Audiomat Arpege (integrated tube, PP). The Pharoah's sounded great with all of them really. I think they're a rather un-fussy speaker.
     
  21. Jim13

    Jim13 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, much appreciated.
     
  22. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    My wife's goddaughter just got back from a trip to a bunch of places, one of which included Germany. We took her out to dinner the other night and asked her about her trip and she said that one of the place's that she got to visit, was the place where they make Tocaro speakers. I must have looked like an idiot to my wife, as I gave her the "deer in the headlights" look of who? I have to be honest and say that even being a member of this fine forum since 2002, I have clearly never heard (or paid attention to) the name "Tocaro". Naturally, a quick search on the forum and it brought me to this thread.
     
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  23. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Your wife's goddaughter has unusual interests.
     
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  24. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Tocaro speakers are truly unique in the world of speakers, they sound like no other that I've ever heard. They sound like instruments, particularly when reproducing acoustic music. I just rotated them out of my system but they'll go back in (I always switch things up when I get bored), they're lifers with me that's for sure.
     
  25. Whoopycat

    Whoopycat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines
    It bothers me that Tocaro doesn't publish bandwidth specs. The only other speaker manufacturer I can think of that does that is Bose, and Tocaro is charging a heck of a lot more than Bose. :shake:

    The design is intriguing, and they may sound fantastic, but if the speaker only goes from 50-10k, then just own it and publish that info.
     
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