Tocaro 40E speakers have landed

Jtycho I am very intrigued by the Tocaro speakers. Are you still in love with them?

 

Hi everyone, I know this is an oldish thread, hope all the contributers are well. Having mega-nostalgia remembering my Rehd0 115s

Just bought some Tekton Enzo XLs and their ( relative) lack of compression reminded me of my old 115s, so I googled, found Tocaro, and here I am! So excited to see used Rehds still selling well, and that old man Rehde's ideas didn't die with him. I wonder if his son went to work with Tocaro?

Kicking myself as I could have bought some Tocaros instead (but the ENZOs are fab for the money and easily best my Maggie MG3a pair.)

As some have alluded, once Rehdeko's are heard, you are never the same, for better or worse. Owned a pair bought in the UK in 1993, visited the Rehde family business in France ( to listen to the 175s but the promised pair were sold the prior day! Arrgh. To make up they graciously hosted me for 2 days, and offered me a job, as an agent ). I then shipped them out to New Zealand when I emigrated and hawked them all over the country, though not a single dealer was interested in the ( inevitable) acclimatization period required to give them a fair hearing. Most people react negatively on first hearing. The speakers are shocking in their speed and immediacy, so fast, but , in Paul Messengers words at the time, "hopelessly coloured". But, as the dealer warned me, once you have adjusted, conventional speakers sound appalling thereafter, literally all boom and tizz. Great example of psycho-acoustics at work. In truth though, I was always distracted by their midband voicing and honk. In the end I discovered Martin Logans, thought they would give me even more reality. They made lesser recordings more listenable, but I soon missed the "life" of the gallic shouters.

Weber Rehde was a classical musician -as am I - charming and crazy, and very passionate about giving people "reality", as near as he could engineer acoustic pressure sound - molecule to molecule propogation of sound energy - rather than "slabs of sound flapping the ear drum", as he described less tightly sprung and lively drive units than his own. He would never disclose the exact secret sauce in his paper based drive units, but hinted that "la mer" may pay a part. Seaweed? Shellfish? Algae?? Always wondered.

The 115s had some bass, but very discrete , and lacking for rock etc. Has anyone found a sub that integrates ok with 115s or 125s, and do the smallest Tocaros do ok at the bottom?

 

Welcome to the forum! You’re spot on about the nature of Rehdekos and what they do to your brain! You kind of view audio differently after hearing them.

I have my doubts about any sub integrating well with Rehdekos or Tocaros. Much like ESL’s they’re just too fast for most subs to keep up with. The Tocaro 40Es do bass sufficiently. If not quite suitable for deep impactful bass they certainly give you everything you need in an acoustic upright. 42Es do give you more bass if only due to the larger cabinet size. At the end of the day they lack a bit for rock, which has turned out to be a sticking point for me. For chamber music, jazz and folk I’ve heard no better speaker, and that includes my restored QUAD ESLs.

 

I see a pair of 40E's for sale ... do they favour one type of amp over another? (I run Naim stuff.)

 

In my experience they like clean, high-ish power solid stage, so Naim could work well. Traditionally they’re paired with Crimson or DNM. Be careful with Tocaros, they’re not for everyone, but the things they do well they do better than anything!

 

I've decided (in a rather grown-up move, for me) that I can't afford the Tocaros. I'm going to keep my Harbeths (made the mistake of getting rid of them once before, not making that error again!), but am considering getting a pair of Blumenstein Tritons (made here in Seattle), hi-eff speakers with 8" coax drivers that seem like they might be a valid, "budget" alternative. Anyone have experience with these ...?

 

Not the Tritons specifically, but I’ve had the Orcas for a few years. They’re enjoyable speakers mid-field, which is where I had them at first, but I think they really shine in a near-field setup. When I sit down and listen to them, it feels like I’m dipping my head into a pool of 3D sound.

Clark is a good guy and the speakers are well-made. I’m a fan.

 

Well if it’s of any consequence, it’s doubtful that you’d like the Tocaros given you seem to love Harbeths. They’re just in completely different ball parks. Why not check out JM Reynaud? Those Blumensteins look interesting. Have you ever heard of Coherent speakers? I just stumbled upon them the other day, they seem interesting and look great. https://coherentguy7.wixsite.com/coherentaudio/coherent-audio-gra-12

 

Thanks, I'll check those out ...

Well, Tocaros are not in my future, given my retirement budget. I actually had a set of J.M. Reynaud Twins a decade or so ago, they were very good. Traded them away for something else, probably a stupid move (one of many). But I was in that early audiophile/experimental mode ... I will probably visit Blumenstein for an audition, at least. I'd like to see if he could make me a set of Tritons without the supertweeter, that might be more Tocaro-like.

Edit -- those Coherent speakers look very interesting!

 

i would like to very much hear thos

 

I just got a pair of Coherent Model 10's a few days ago. Very impressed so far.

 

Anything they remind you of sound wise? Tannoy perhaps?

 

I suppose a Tannoy comparison is inevitable but unfortunately I've never heard Tannoys so I can't say. I've had mostly high efficiency speakers in my room (Devore 0/93 and several Zu models).

Compared to the 0/93, I'd say both have great detail, but the DeVore has more delicacy and finesse where the Coherent is more robust and muscular (by comparison). The Coherent is more room friendly, despite being rear ported like the 0/93 I have it only a foot from the rear wall and bass is tight.

Compared to Zu, the Coherents have better clarity, more extended top end, more detailed. My Zu DefHeads can compete here, but they are not part of the official Zu line (they are the top half of Definition IV's). Otherwise with Omen DW/Superfly/Druid V, the Coherents have the advantage there. The Zus have better dynamics, but it's close.

Note that my Model 10's are floorstanders, which are not part of the current standard Coherent line of standmounts, but I think the 10" driver is the same.

 

Thank you! I’m intrigued by them, though I can’t imagine I’ll hear them anytime soon. I’m officially done buying speakers without hearing them first since that hasn’t always worked out well for me! Would you say they’re “tube only” speakers?

 

Well, I wouldn't but others probably would. My vintage Sansui solid state has been my favorite match so far. Leben CS300XS was pretty good, although I've become convinced the little Leben just can't hack it at high volume, even with high efficiency speakers. My SPEC Corp class D amp which I love with my Omen DWs was a bad match, sounding steely and metallic. Which was weird because I love the tone of that amp and there is no way Tone Imports would carry the SPEC line if they sounded like that with most speakers. I had been warned by the dealer that class D would probably not work with the Coherents. Why that is, I don't know but my experience also bore that out.

 

That is a bit surprising. Though that vintage Sansui is probably a rather warm sounding amp (just guessing). Thanks for the report!

 

Just discovered this forum, awesome!! Hello to All! One more passionate Rehdeko man here, in fact I currently own every model, RK115, RK125, RK145, RK145. The electronics are DNM and Resolution Audio. I met Walther Rehde through Denis Morecroft in the 90's, got hooked pretty immediately, and I can say that I occasionally check out HiFi fairs or friends systems and never ever regret my minimal choices. On the contrary, every-time I hear other systems I long to go home to my gear, so so much fun, so much music and passion comes together with this set up. I compare my systems to racing, DNM/Rehdeko equals Formula 1, everything else is in an other category, Touring, F3 etc..... I wish I could contribute to your conversation comparing the Tocaro to Rehdeko, but I never much spend time with the Tocaros because I had already acquired RK and found no further needs, but I am curious to hear more, especially the Tocaro 50E look impressive? Would like to hear more about it if worth exploring. If any of you have specific questions about the RK range, I would gladly share my 29 years of experience.

 

@soundspace welcome! I still own a pair of RK115s but quickly moved to Tocaro 40E’s and eventually 42E’s. While Tocaro certainly draws inspiration from Rehdeko there are some fundamental differences (mind you the only Rehdekos I've heard are 115s). The Tocaros are far smoother, but because of that they loose a touch of the immediacy of Rehdeko. They do however “fix” many of the issues that people find objectionable with Rehdekos. It seems as if every Rehdeko champion doesn’t love Tocaro, so if you’re happy with what you have it’s best to stay put. That said the 50E’s are giant beasts! If you have room I imagine they’re amazing.

I still maintain that for acoustic music it’s damn near impossible to do any better.

 

Thank you for the reply Jtycho! Yes awesome stuff! As per the record player I bought a first generation Rota/Yota/Lexe (around 1997), a DNM Reson joint design, was never really fully happy with it, my previous Micro Seiki and Linn were better, currently considering an EMT, found some german guys that restore them to factory specs. It's a fun new project. As per the music room, yes I got a dedicated space here in Mexico, 9.70 x 4.60 x 5.20 high (in meters, feet are multiplied by factor 3.1). Even though its a large space it hardly takes any power to fire up it up with the 175.

 

Love single drivers and pretty much everything you have owned so far has been on my list: I never managed to listen to the Redh but I'm very intrigued by them - difficult to find though, cheers!

 

Are you in Denmark? There should be RK enthusiasts in that part of the world to connect up with and set up a listening session. You might check out the Tocaro first, and if this direction interests you, stay with that or seek out the rarer Rehdekos, they seem to be a tad more direct and therefore unforgiving, this can be tiring, I cannot listen to it for too long, its like a concert, it goes on for a piece or a set, then we need a break to breath, Rehdekos are close to a life music experience, the very opposite to background music listening or browning sound. When listening to other systems, I got the same reoccurring sensation: everything else sounds thick and/or saggy. Horns can overcome that, but to the expense of hollow directionality. Surprisingly Rehdekos sound good from most parts of the room (and house) and even from behind the speaker. They need massive distance to the rear wall to work well, over a meter! DNM listens to them like headphones, steeply angled and right up to his chair set in the middle of the room.

 

This is spot on!

 

I am yes thanks will do. I'm not in favour of laid back sound, that's the main reason I didn't like the Harbeths at the end. So Rehdekos sound about right: they rarely come for sale however but will keep looking!

 

They do come up, I recently found a RK125 in France and had them shipped here. In fact try to find a 125, they give much more than the 115 or the 145, the 145 is my most listened to model, they beat all for clarity, especially jazz and voice. Its the most forward model.