Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers - Angel Dream (She’s The One OST reissue)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Saul Pimon, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. Bakeryrec

    Bakeryrec Forum Resident

    New York, NY
    Yeah, I thought both the last vinyl reissue of She’s the One, but especially this (and the tracks that ended up on the Wildflowers & All The Rest etc ) are definitely big improvements on the OG CD that I’ve been listening to for the past 25 years.

    I like the cover just fine as well. The music is the show, here!
    faceinthecrowd and WhatDoIKnow like this.
  2. windfall

    windfall Senior Member

    hey Jeff, really enjoyed reading your reflections and I can see we differ on "...Little Mysteries" here! I can see the kinship with "Man Who Loves Women" and that is not my favourite style of Petty composition either (I also find "Hard to Find a Friend" rubs me up the wrong way - maybe another slightly Beatle-esque song?)

    I agree on the mix. Beautifully done as always.
    ThirdBowl, FJFP and faceinthecrowd like this.
  3. tinnox

    tinnox Senior Member

  4. Porkpie

    Porkpie Forum Resident

    Is there a release date for the standard black vinyl version? I saw a preorder on Ebay with delivery date of 21 - 23 June, implying it’s released this coming Friday but Amazon still doesn’t have a date for it.
  5. KinkySmallFace1991

    KinkySmallFace1991 Everybody's in Showbiz, everybody's a star

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  6. McCool

    McCool Forum Resident

    [photograph credited to Robert Sebree]

    A brief analysis of the ten tracks cut from "Wildflowers"

    With the release to market last year of Tom Petty's "Wildflowers And All The Rest", it has given me a degree of pause to consider the reasoning behind why the ten tracks that were originally slated for the double disc version of the album were cut when the record was trimmed to a single programme. In short, we will never have a definitive answer to that question. When it came to the curation of Tom Petty/Heartbreakers albums, it was Tom Petty himself who was truly the genie in the bottle who had all of the answers and the genie has been set free. Still a recent interview with Rick Rubin all but clarified for me how little both Mike Campbell and himself had to do with the final decisions regarding trimming the "Wildflowers" album once Warners was less than enthusiastic about the double disc presentation. While there has been some degree written about Tom Petty's reasoning behind trimming the record itself, unfortunately very little was ever put down in the public record as to why he made the decisions he did when it came time to select which tracks made the cut and which tracks didn't. Still having poured over a myriad of interviews dating back to 1994, I have been able to cobble together a narrative which might suggest as to why Tom Petty/Heartbreakers fans ended up with the fifteen tracks that survived onto the single disc programme. Through my research, one potential viewpoint is that there is far more to say regarding the tracks that didn't make the cut than the ones that did. That is to say that while you could make an argument for almost any of the twenty-five selections that Tom Petty was pouring over during the summer of '94, when it comes to ten tracks that were trimmed you can ALSO make arguments against them. That said it is also worth mentioning that Tom Petty has described the process of trimming the record as somewhat of an arduous affair that took several months and as I've previously shared with the forum, there wasn't a clean jump from the double disc to the single disc programme as there were a few other track sequences that were tried out in between, before the familiar single-disc fifteen track programme was achieved. I would also be remiss in not sharing that at least two tracks that did make the cut, "You Don't Know How It Feels" and "Crawling Back To You" were bubble tracks for awhile there and were not necessarily considered locks to make the final cut, even though they eventually did. Before I mention each track individually, there are two quotes from Tom Petty and Rick Rubin respectively that I feel shed some light on the general process of culling "Wildflowers" from a double disc to a single:

    "What I did was I took the stuff that was primarily Heartbreakers and I put it aside for a Heartbreakers record. Simple as that." ~Tom Petty ["Wildflower Weekend" 1994/10/28]

    "A lot of time and effort went into the making of the record. And we had so many great songs. And I like all of the songs on the record but I think a lot of the songs that didn't make it are every bit as good as the ones that did." ~Rick Rubin ["SongTalk" - Paul Zollo 1995]

    01. LEAVE VIRGINIA ALONE - Out of the ten tracks that ended up not making the cut, this one is the real head scratcher of the lot. The reason being that it is the one track amongst the ten selections that didn't make the cut where you could make a cogent argument that it's actually a better song than many of the tracks that did. It's an obvious hit single and that may have been the issue as to why it was cut. Tom Petty has always retained a reputation about being fastidious regarding the commerciality of his music. He is an artist who has a ton of singles, but more times than not he didn't set out to write hits. Interestingly, it was Rod Stewart who upon receiving this song from Tom Petty's management provided the only substantial amount of insight as to why "Leave Virginia Alone" didn't make the cut for "Wildflowers". According to Stewart, Tom Petty removed the song from consideration because "it was too close lyrically to something that was a hit beforehand and his managers couldn't persuade him to put it on the record." This also corresponds with a well-known Tom Petty quote from some years later where he spoke about not wanting to repeat himself in terms of his commercial output stating that "The Beatles never made Rubber Soul twice".

    02. HUNG UP AND OVERDUE - This is the only song where there is a definitive answer from it's creator was to why it was cut from "Wildflowers". In an interview with Paul Zollo in 1995, Tom Petty had the following to say about "Hung Up And Overdue": "There's one I wrote called "Hung Up And Overdue" that's got Ringo on it and Carl Wilson doing this beautiful counterpart harmony that was great. But I couldn't fit it in the sequence. It was six minutes long." Given Tom Petty's comments, it's worth remembering that Tom Petty conceived his records as having beginnings, middles and endings. Once it had been decided that "Wildflowers" was going to being a single-disc programme rather than a double, the narrative changed in terms of what that record was going to be able to communicate to it's audience. This is worth remembering not only in regards to this particular track but also the project as a whole because while a double-album allows the artist a great deal of space for almost an infinite amount of musical styles and approaches, the contents of a single-disc program will by necessity always need to be more defined as it pertains to it's curation.

    03. LONESOME DAVE - See Tom Petty's quote above regarding material that was primarily Heartbreakers and how he decided to set those tracks aside. "Lonesome Dave" in my opinion is one of the best cuts that didn't make it onto "Wildflowers" but it's also pure Heartbreakers and given Tom Petty's comments, it's likely why it ultimately didn't make the cut.

    04. GIRL ON LSD - According to Adria Petty, her father's original placement for "Girl On LSD" was not it's eventual destination as the b-side to "You Don't Know How It Feels" but as a hidden track that would rise out of the ether after the double-disc programme closed with "Wake Up Time". Given that even when "Wildflowers" was still a double disc programme, "Girl On LSD" was relegated to afterthought status should be the best indication as to why it didn't survive onto the single-disc programme.

    05. THIRTEEN DAYS - "Thirteen Days" is a cover song of a JJ Cale track and Tom Petty has stated that cover songs were always weighed far less heavily than original compositions when it came to making selections for Tom Petty/Heartbreakers albums. Also this is probably another case where a double-album would've lent enough room for a cover song to breathe alongside twenty-four originals [and one could argue may have even been a welcome diversion] but would feel very much out of place on a single disc programme.

    06. SOMETHING COULD HAPPEN - Along with "Leave Virginia Alone", this is the other true puzzle. While not as commercially appealing or radio friendly as "Leave Virginia Alone", "Something Could Happen" is a track that would've slotted effortlessly onto "Wildflowers" with it's soft touches and organic structure. The issue with this particular track however might have been it's tone. While there are certain aspects of "Wildflowers" that are of a downright confessional nature, this track really strips bare it's author in a way that was perhaps a little bit too revealing. Without diving too deep, there is a darkness on this track that is not present on the vast majority of the material that did make the cut for "Wildflowers" and is only matched on one selection that also didn't end up making the final cut. Simply put, one of Tom Petty's greatest strengths as a songwriter was to take lyrics that referenced personal experiences and then appropriate them for a broader audience. "Something Could Happen" on the other hand belongs uniquely to it's author and in that may lie the issue.

    07. HOPE YOU NEVER - The first thing that comes to mind regarding "Hope You Never" is that this track isn't as strong as the others. It's not a bad song mind you, but I oftentimes wonder if Tom Petty was attempting to rewrite "Hard On Me"? Regardless, I believe it's similarity to other stronger material that did end up making the cut on "Wildflowers" likely sealed it's fate.

    08. CLIMB THAT HILL - There is quite a bit to say on this one. "Climb That Hill" seems to have been a difficult track for Tom Petty/Heartbreakers to capture in the studio primarily because they seemed unsettled as to how the song should be arranged. As far as I know the initial tracking of the song dates from Phase Four of the "Wildflowers" sessions which would place it in the autumn of 1993. While this is the version that ultimately ended up on "Wildflowers And All The Rest", it's story was in actuality just beginning. Seemingly unsatisfied with what they had committed to tape, Tom Petty/Heartbreakers would return to the song in 1994 recasting it in an entirely different arrangement that remains largely unheard to this day although it is reminiscent of the home recording entitled "Climb That Hill Blues" that does appear on the box set. This version however was also seemingly problematic as there seems to be an indication that Tom Petty was unsatisfied with his vocals on at least one of these two versions of the track and would ultimately opt for a subsequent recut the following year which cast the song in a far heavier arrangement [later heard on the soundtrack "Songs And Music From The Motion Picture: She's The One"] than either one of the versions tracked for "Wildflowers".

    09. CALIFORNIA - "California" was seemingly another difficult track for it's creator to cut from consideration for the single disc programme. Again leaning on my commentary for "Hope You Never", "California" does bear much in common with other material that did end up making the final cut. The difference here is though that "California" is arguably as strong as much of the material that did make it onto the single disc programme. For what it's worth it was the one track out of the ten that was performed live during the 1995 "Dogs With Wings" tour despite not appearing on the "Wildflowers" album.

    10. CONFUSION WHEEL - "Confusion Wheel" is the other confessional track that I previously referenced. Much like "Something Could Happen", there is a darkness here that might've been a little too revealing when all was said and done despite the song itself retaining somewhat of an uplifting message. As an aside, I find it interesting that out of all of the tracks that were eventually given the shove, four of the ten come from Phase Five of the sessions, once the calendar year turned over to 1994. Did Tom Petty feel that he was perhaps "filling out the numbers" at this point in the project? I don't know but it would be a difficult argument to make given that "You Wreck Me" and "Wake Up Time" were also both tracked during this time period although the genesis of the latter dates back to the beginning of the project in 1992. While Rick Rubin's dismissal of "Confusion Wheel" in the liner notes to the box set as "never being high on the radar" alongside the fact that it is lacking an obvious lead guitar overdub may sum matters up rather succinctly, I also cannot write off the issue with the Phase Five selections as mere coincidence either. Mind Bender.

    That's all for now. Looking forward to discussing the general chronology of the "Wildflowers" project in some degree of depth with you all in the future.

    supermd, LeeGriffin, laf848 and 41 others like this.
  7. jmxw

    jmxw Fab Forum Fan

    As usual, an interesting and well-thought out [and researched] posting.

    I think you definitely raise the bar of discussion on TP's music and career in these pages.

    Thanks, McCool. :edthumbs:
  8. JoeF.

    JoeF. Forum Resident

    New Jersey, USA
    Not many artists would leave a sure fire hit single like "Leave Virginia Alone" off a hit album, that's for sure.
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  9. KinkySmallFace1991

    KinkySmallFace1991 Everybody's in Showbiz, everybody's a star

    As always @McCool : I love your invaluable insights to the Petty discussion on this board. I hope you check out my story of how I acquired the Record Store Day version of Angel Dream. (Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers - Angel Dream (She’s The One OST reissue) ) Yes, in addition to the Zanes and Zollo books, I recited your background and insights verbatim to the person in my story, right up until the last time we really felt like friends. I mostly hung out around the Wildflowers and She's The One periods, as they were the most interesting and fascinating to me.

    I'm trying to see what song Tom thought it was so similar to...and I'm drawing a blank.

    I agree with all of this. However, I think it suited Wildflowers better than say, "Come On Down To My House".

    There were people who came to his concerts who actually believed they'd hear it...and occasionally, they did!

    Both of these tracks, like "Lonesome Dave", feature the full Heartbreakers lineup at the time (save for Scott Thurston), so another reason could be that he didn't want anything with the full lineup? He did say in, I believe, the Zanes book that he didn't want Stan on the album at all, so the three songs tracked with him were easiest for him to cast off the island, so to speak.

    I'll buy that it shares its message with "Hard On Me", but it seems angrier, whereas "Hard On Me" feels like a desperate plea.

    IMHO, I think the one released on All The Rest is the heaviest and the best version of them all. I actually think it should have been played in concert, but I only know of one performance from the Fillmore in January 1997.

    Again, another one I feel should have been played live more than it was. Especially whenever the band played the venues in CA.

    The fact that there is no real guitar solo only adds to the darkness of the song, and Mike on the baritone guitar adding that deep throaty tone seals the deal.

    The pleasure is all ours!
    laf848, ARK, ThirdBowl and 8 others like this.
  10. JoeF.

    JoeF. Forum Resident

    New Jersey, USA
    "The fact that there is no real guitar solo only adds to the darkness of the song, and Mike on the baritone guitar adding that deep throaty tone seals the deal."

    "Confusion Wheel" is my favorite song from All the Rest--in no small part because of that guitar part you mention.
    Sounds flurping cool as hell
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2021
  11. J_D__

    J_D__ Forum Resident

    Huntersville, NC
    Or “Stop Dragging My Heart Around”
  12. JoeF.

    JoeF. Forum Resident

    New Jersey, USA
    But at least that was a hit.
  13. KinkySmallFace1991

    KinkySmallFace1991 Everybody's in Showbiz, everybody's a star

    Yeah, killed ["Woman In Love"] dead! - Mike Campbell to Stevie Nicks when she told him about the success of "Stop Draggin' My Heart Around"
  14. McCool

    McCool Forum Resident

    You bring up a very valid point here and one that I was considering including in my original discussion. To me anyhow, the fact that the three selections which featured Stan Lynch behind the kit were ultimately cut from "Wildflowers" once it was trimmed from a double-disc to a single-disc program is yet another one of those instances that I cannot write off to coincidence. By and large I'm in lockstep here with your line of thinking on these matters although it's worth noting that IF "Wildflowers" had been issued to market as a double-disc programme than Stanley WOULD'VE had a presence on the record.

    I would require some assistance from @ryan de topanga on these matters but I believe that the versions of "Something Could Happen", "Thirteen Days" and "Lonesome Dave" are indeed the masters of those songs and therefore would've likely been the versions of those tracks selected for inclusion on "Wildflowers" back in 1994. If accurate, this revelation somewhat flies in the face of the prevailing conventional logic as it pertains to this project which states among other things that "Wildflowers" although ostensibly a Tom Petty solo album in actuality is a Tom Petty/Heartbreakers album without Stan Lynch. Additionally, there is also the idea that has been frequently put forth that the sessions for the "Greatest Hits" that took place roughly in the middle of the "Wildflowers" project were looked upon as being entirely separate from "Wildflowers" proper. But given that TP had originally selected no less than three tracks from those sessions for the "Wildflowers" album then maybe there isn't as much of a fine line between the two projects as has been stated over the years.

    There also seems to be a fair bit of confusion out there regarding Stanley lack of participation in the "Wildflowers" project with some fans believing that it was Stanley himself who opted out of the sessions of his own volition. This does not appear to be the case as both TP and Benmont Tench have gone on the record stating that while Stanley was still considered the be in the Heartbreakers at the time of "Wildflowers" sessions, they were pressing forward in making that album without him. That said, when interviewed about the album shortly prior to it's release by Westwood One, TP interestingly stated that as the project progressed he eventually brought ALL of the Heartbreakers in to work on the album and then began to list all of the members of the band curiously omitting Stanley. I'm probably making too much of what was likely an off-handed comment by TP but it is what it is.

    As an addendum, your point about Scott Thurston is also well-taken. Scott Thurston is a multi-instrumentalist and theoretically would've slotted in perfectly to the lineup of musicians on 'Wildflowers" considering that TP was auditioning all sorts of different hands for the project from the well-known to the obscure. Maybe he felt that Thurston was tied a little bit too tightly to the band to be invited down to the sessions? Truth be told, the more I look into this period even Howie Epstein's involvement in the project seems to fall on the side of minimal as opposed to the opposite end of the spectrum where Mike Campbell and Benmont Tench were for all intents and purposes there all of the time. But above and beyond everything else the involvement of Stan Lynch in this project has always fascinated me and it was nothing short of a revelation in realizing that if Warners had opted for the double-disc version of the record then Stanley would've likely been on the album.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  15. CybrKhatru

    CybrKhatru Music is life.

    Los Angeles
    I'll get round to picking up Angel Dream very soon. Still absorbing and loving all the Wildflowers stuff! Wow....
    FJFP likes this.
  16. Tom Campbell

    Tom Campbell Forum Resident

    Boston, MA
    I know many feel this way, but IMO the version of "Walls" they chose to include is the one that fits the rest of the album.

    And really, I think that's the point of the whole project. I love She's the One, but it's always sounded like what it is: a bunch of material, thrown together on deadline. Some strong, some not so strong. Some polished, some unpolished.

    On the other hand, Angel Dream sounds like an album. It's cohesive in terms of both the material and the sound. And Ryan U. did an amazing job with the remix -- it sounds fabulous. In the end, I'm happy to have both albums.
    supermd, Bakeryrec, ThirdBowl and 9 others like this.
  17. jmxw

    jmxw Fab Forum Fan

    I'll second the notion that She's The One always sounded like a hodge-podge of material. I'm looking forward to hearing Angel Dream...

    I'm also wondering if, down the road apiece, there will be some kind of Angel Dream Deluxe that collects the new album and includes the castoffs from the old as bonus tracks..... [yes, I'm still smarting from the standalone Finding Wallflowers release! It's gonna take me a while to get over that one.]
    Bakeryrec and faceinthecrowd like this.
  18. FJFP

    FJFP Host for the 'Mixology' Mix Differences Podcast

    So, has anyone in the EU picked up the Blue LP? As there’s a few I could pickup, it’s very tempting - is the pressing solid? I see some people that have a couple of issues, but with Father’s Day coming right up...
  19. windfall

    windfall Senior Member

    My copy (UK) sounds fine. I am not a card-carrying audiophile, I don't have a record cleaner beyond one of those brushes you hold over the LP as it spins, but seems fine.
    FJFP likes this.
  20. WhatDoIKnow

    WhatDoIKnow I never got over it, I got used to it

    My copy is wonderful. Heck, even the run-out grooves are dead silent!
    FJFP and richierichie like this.
  21. IHeartRecordsAz

    IHeartRecordsAz Forum Resident

    Do any of the versions outside of the US contain a download code (which is the case with the Elton John RSD release)? Or is one absent from all pressings of this edition?
  22. KinkySmallFace1991

    KinkySmallFace1991 Everybody's in Showbiz, everybody's a star

    My copy had some pops and crackles on the first play after a cleaning, but they’re gone now.

    They do not here in the US, so I will have to double dip to get the hi-res master this was cut from.
  23. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    New England
    Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers - Angel Dream (She’s The One OST reissue)
  24. xTraPlaylists

    xTraPlaylists I bring order to chaos.

    *******, *******
    Now that’s a well done not-so-subtle reminder. :p
  25. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Bergenfield, NJ
    I know this is the Angel Dream thread, but I'm replying to @McCool's post which discusses Wildflowers And All The Rest ... so I hope this doesn't get deleted. My biggest issue with the whole "All The Rest" concept is that Wildflowers was never cut down to a single LP -- single DISC, yes, but it was still 63 minutes long. With the All The Rest disc being 40 minutes, does that indicate that TP and Rick Rubin were prepared (back in 1994) to release a double-CD that was an hour an 43 minutes long? That's at least 10 minutes more than a double-LP could have held without compromising sound quality ... or was a vinyl version not even a factor at the time? Given his long history with vinyl releases, I wouldn't think Tom would have wanted to release a double-LP that was more than, say 45 minutes per LP. Maybe this was asked and answered in the Wildflowers thread, but I don't remember it, so apologies if this is redundant.

    So I guess my question, boiled down, is "Was the s0-called 25-track Wildflowers really going to be two 50+ minute CDs, or would those 25 tracks have gotten culled slightly more down to two 45-minute CDs/LPs?" Thanks!
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