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Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers - Angel Dream (She’s The One OST reissue)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Saul Pimon, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. windfall

    windfall Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    This is a good question and @McCool will I am sure be far better placed to answer than I am. The only thing I would note is that by this time, IIRC, we were in full blown CD mode in terms of major format, with vinyl in retreat. This is why so few were pressed on vinyl and why the original is so rare, I guess.

    CDs had changed the game to the extent that albums were often significantly longer than +/- 40 minutes, and my sense is that it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Tom and Rick may have discussed releasing a longer version as primarily CD, with the CDs running 50 minutes each. It would have been ambitious. And we know the record label baulked. But given the strength of the material, it would artistically have seemed credible at the time, I believe.
     
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  2. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    Right, I know that by the mid-1990s everyone was releasing 60-70 minute albums on CD ... just because they could. I was just wondering if Tom and Rick were thinking of a "classic" double-album -- like the White Album or Blonde On Blonde -- or if they too were in "CD era" mode. I've always objected a bit to the idea that Wildflowers was cut down to a "single album" -- I mean, it's still 63 minutes long, which by LP standards is about an album-and-a-half. Doesn't really matter, I was just wondering. I guess since we'll never really "know" what the original double-album Wildflowers track sequence would have been, I would tend to take the best 20-22 songs that equal 90 minutes and make the best old-school double-LP I can out of those.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  3. ryan de topanga

    ryan de topanga Forum Resident

    Location:
    Topanga CA USA
    As usual McCool is correct. These were the master takes from the Wildflowers sessions.
     
  4. IHeartRecordsAz

    IHeartRecordsAz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    My guess would be that they were thinking of a double album being a two CD set at the time. Similar to how Billy Corgan wanted to have Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness released as a double album as a tribute to the double LPs of the ‘70s, only to realize that the album had to be released as a three LP set on vinyl and was therefore technically a longer album than a double album during the classic rock era. Plus I remember reading somewhere that Warner Bros. told Petty that a two CD set would probably be too pricey for the average consumer, and he decided to trim it down to one disc because of this feedback.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  5. ryan de topanga

    ryan de topanga Forum Resident

    Location:
    Topanga CA USA
    Now that the album is out, I thought I'd weigh in. As you already know the idea behind Angel Dream was to make it a tighter album, and something that would make sense with this music after the three original Wildflowers tracks were taken off of it (for inclusion on Wildflowers All The Rest). It was important to have a really tight set of songs, sequenced in a way that honors Tom's sense of how important albums are, in the story that they can tell. (This logic is behind the decision to leave certain songs off of the original Wildflowers, as McCool discussed in his earlier post.)

    For Angel Dream the decision was made to not include the second versions of two songs (Walls and Angel Dream) that are on the She's The One soundtrack, and also to not include the music cues that related more to the film. This was reconfigured to be a Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers album, not a film soundtrack album. Since we needed more material to fill out the album, we went back to three tracks that were recorded during the Wildflowers sessions, and an unreleased instrumental track.

    1) One Of Life's Little Mysteries was recorded in 1992 in the early Wildflowers sessions, with Stan.

    2) Thirteen Days was recorded on 22 July 1993, with Stan on drums, during the "Mary Jane" sessions. This is the same version that was originally in the double album sequence for Wildflowers. (We wanted to make sure that Thirteen Days was included for those fanatics that want to make a playlist that reproduces the double album sequence for Wildflowers. You now have all the "raw materials".)

    3) 105 Degrees was recorded the next day with Stan, on 23 July 1993.

    4) French Disconnection was an instrumental piece that featured the Angel Dream melody. Because of that, we thought it made a nice coda for the album.

    More importantly, we think these songs fit into the spirit of "Angel Dream" which includes some deep covers (Change The Locks, *******) and some more hard rocking tracks (Zero From Outer Space). Can songs that were not recorded at the same time as others live on the same album? Yes they can, if they fit into the "vibe". Without Tom there will always be second-guessing, but please know we did our best.

    I'm also very happy with these remixes, and thanks for your compliments. There is so much soul in these tapes. It is a joy and honor to be able to work with Tom's songs, played by this amazing group of musicians, and pull as much out of them as we can!
     
  6. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Thanks to both you and @McCool for sharing your thoughts on these releases here.

    Of course, the question now is "what's next"? Is there a release planned for the holiday season this year?
     
  7. ryan de topanga

    ryan de topanga Forum Resident

    Location:
    Topanga CA USA
    How cool is it that a title of a track on this album is censored on the Hoffman forum. The offensive title of the other cover I referred to starts with "A" and ends with "Hole" ;-)
     
  8. ryan de topanga

    ryan de topanga Forum Resident

    Location:
    Topanga CA USA
    As you all know, I only post after things are released. Having said that, there is more to come...
     
  9. McCool

    McCool Forum Resident

    All good questions. It's important to remember that since the double-disc version of "Wildflowers" was for all intents and purposes rejected by Warners, [yes I'm aware, not formally rejected but they certainly stated their preference for a single-disc issue] that Tom Petty, Mike Campbell and Rick Rubin all but certainly never got far enough down the road to where they were deciding how to cut the discs. In other words, while Tom Petty's daughter Adria has revealed that her father had sequenced the twenty-five selections onto one gold compact disc, whatever that sequence represented likely was not split in terms of determining which selections were going to be chosen for programme one or programme two. So that was going to be placed into the "to be determined" folder and "Wildflowers" as a double-disc project likely never got far enough down the line for that to be addressed.

    Tom Petty always had a tremendous affinity for vinyl. I believe up until the very end of his life, that vinyl was still king with him and was his preferred way to listen to music. As it pertains to "Wildflowers" he mentioned a few times over the years that he appreciated the irony in that the project which he always viewed as a double-album in the end actually ended up being a double-LP when it was issued to market in 1994. So I think that vinyl as well as audio cassette was certainly something that he was going to spend some time ruminating about in terms of how he was going to sequence those twenty-five tracks. In fact, if you go back into the older threads here on the SHF, you will find that when I was doing my "just fun" sequence of the "Wildflowers" double-disc, I purposely sequenced it not only for compact disc but for audio cassette because cassettes were just such a huge part of the market at the time. I'm currently working on several different sequences including another revision of the double-disc which I'm likely to share with y'all at some point in the future, so this discussion is if nothing else quite topical for yours truly.

    Personally I don't believe that in 1994, Tom Petty would've opted for a 15/10 split. I can certainly understand why that format was opted for in 2015, but my feeling is that twenty-seven years ago the dual programmes would've been a bit more balanced in terms of the content that was spread out between them. Rick Rubin suggested to Paul Zollo in 1995 that a 12/13 split would've been appropriate and that seems reasonable, so personally I'm going to roll with that. Either way there is a lot of information on a double-album, so if that was going to be the route they were going to take, the split would've been just one of the many particulars that was going to have to be worked through and dare I say as important as that individual issue might've been, it would've probably been looked up as ancillary in the grand scheme of things when compared to the monumental task of having to sequence twenty-five selections. Here's Rick Rubin:

    "I conceive of albums as Tom does as something you listen to from beginning to end. Which is one of the reasons I thought a double-album was a good idea because breaking it up into two discs, each one being twelve or thirteen songs that is a very palatable amount of songs. I'm of the opinion that if it could have been broken up into two helpings, you could listen to one compact disc for a few months and then start getting into the next one" ~Rick Rubin ["SongTalk" - Paul Zollo 1995]
     
  10. McCool

    McCool Forum Resident

    Thanks for the confirmation boss! :D

    PS: Also a tip of my Dodgers cap @Jerry. I sent you a PM, but as someone who has personally enjoyed these discussions quite a bit, I wanted to publicly thank you as well.

    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  11. Alright4now

    Alright4now Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    More posts about Angel Dream to come?
    Or more unreleased Petty to come?
     
  12. McCool

    McCool Forum Resident

    I think Ryan Ulyate once described "An American Treasure" as a bit of a roadmap showing a bunch of potential destinations from which further Tom Petty/Heartbreakers archival projects could be drawn from. I've already mentioned in this thread one project that AFAIK is being worked on at the moment. Either way, the Tom Petty/Heartbreakers archives are deep, so I'm sure y'all can extrapolate from that what you will.
     
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  13. KinkySmallFace1991

    KinkySmallFace1991 I'm a 20th Century Man

    American Treasure was one of the best ever. It fits snugly alongside Playback and The Live Anthology, both of which are excellent in their own right.
     
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  14. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    Thank you, @McCool -- that clears things up for me! So it seems like they had a preferred list of 25 songs, but it never got to the "LP1" and "LP2" phase -- or even "CD1" and "CD2" for that matter. That makes sense, if Warners had already indicated a preference for a single CD.
    Yes, this all makes perfect sense. So, they didn't feel limited to two 45-minute sequences -- focusing on the CD format -- but it probably would have been more balanced, with a 12-track CD and an 11-track CD. Which also would have been very interesting listening experiences. The double-album hadn't completely died by 1994 (see Van Morrison's Hymns To The Silence, or Wilco's Being There, a couple of years later), but releasing two albums simultaneously was also a recent innovation (GNR, Bruce Springsteen). Did Tom and Rick (and Warners) ever consider releasing a 50-minute Wildflowers and then Wildflowers 2 along with it, or maybe a few months later? Or did his involvement in the She's The One soundtrack change their plans for that material (as you've indicated)?
     
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  15. McCool

    McCool Forum Resident


    Yes to clarify, the general consensus seems to be that while Tom Petty did sequence a double-disc version of "Wildflowers" containing twenty-four listed selections and one hidden selection, ["Girl On LSD" as mentioned up the chain was destined to rise up out of the ether a few seconds after "Wake Up Time" had closed the main programme] there is no indication to my knowledge that there were hard decisions made in terms of how the physical media [be it compact discs, vinyl records or audio cassettes] were to be cut.

    As it stands now, I'm sequencing my own personal mix of the "Wildflowers" album as double-disc utilizing the 13/12 split as previously mentioned. I haven't gone far enough down the road yet in order to figure out the exact parameters of the split or how I plan to split the four audio cassette programmes but once I've got it all figured out, I'll likely post it up here.

    To answer your question, I believe in '94 the initial plan was to release "Wildflowers" as a direct-to-market, inclusive double-disc package. There was at one point some consideration given to the idea that "Wildflowers" as a single-disc issue could've been more inclusive than it was but as Ryan Ulyate referenced above, the narrative of his records was something that was inherently important to Tom Petty. He was an artist that was less concerned about collating a collection of hits or sequencing a record that would be of the commerciality-first, everything else second variety as he was crafting a narrative for his albums in that they would have very pronounced beginnings, middles and ends and would take the listener on a bit of journey. He really did come that nineteen sixties school where a great amount of attention was paid to how albums were sequenced and that small details were anything but. So while there was some consideration given to trying to feature as much music as possible onto "Wildflowers" as a single-disc programme back in '94, the only way to allow for that was to actually remove all of the silence that was placed between the tracks which in turn caused the selections to bump up against one another to the point of intrusion. Needless to say that was never going to fly with TP at the helm and besides even with all of the requisite gaps removed, they were only able to sequence something like seventeen or nineteen tracks onto a single disc. So in short, it seemed like an idea that was worth experimenting with but likely not one that would've ever reached the masses.

    As far as the "Wildflowers: 2" goes, it's possible that if the band didn't end up involved with the soundtrack as much as they ended up being with Tom Petty/Heartbreakers contributing all the selections for both soundtrack and score, then it wouldn't have been beyond the realm of possibility that there may have been a sequel record because as I mentioned they had so much material even after "Wildflowers" had been issued to market. I mean by the time they wrapped on "Wildflowers", they had twenty-five songs that they brought to completion and then TP wrote a bunch more subsequent to that like "Walls" and "Angel Dream", not to mention all of those covers! So I personally feel that Rick Rubin was spot on when he spoke about how rare it was to have a great double-album in your back pocket because they aren't many of them out there to begin with. With this project, Tom Petty/Heartbreakers had that standard of material that they could stretch it out over two compact discs and probably then some if you take into account all of the stuff that came out on the box set last year. Thanks for your questions!
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  16. imsjry

    imsjry Forum Resident

    Location:
    Neenah WI
    First listen and while I get the vision of the project, hearing these songs without "Hope You Never" and "California" in the tracklist just feels wrong to me. Maybe I'll grow to hear it as it's own "thing" but to me, it just makes me want to pull out the soundtrack. Sound quality-wise, it's killer!
     
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  17. jeffrey walsh

    jeffrey walsh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scranton, Pa. USA
    Give me more please.
     
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  18. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    Well, the 25-track sequence would have been a challenge if they wanted a vinyl release in 1994, because it would have required 3 LPs or two LPs that were over 50 minutes long. It wasn't impossible to do (Dylan had a few LPs over 50 minutes, and Elvis Costello's Get Happy!! had 10 tracks per side!) -- but the sound would have suffered, and Tom and Rick probably wouldn't have been happy with that. Some artists in the '80s released 40-minute LPs and then expanded the albums on CD ... but I don't think Tom wanted to go there either. The CD and cassette would have been no problem, but they would have faced a reckoning of sorts if Warners had approved the 25-track album when they got to the vinyl edition.
    I love a good playlist! I've got a "Best of Wildflowers Era" playlist that starts with the 1992 sessions from Playback, runs through Wildflowers (best of), and then includes the She's The One tracks at the end. It all feels like one "era" to me. I've also got a "Best of the Rick Rubin Era" playlist that trims a few from the previous one and adds tracks from Echo. Bottom line: it was an incredibly rich creative time for Tom Petty, one of the most prolific musical bursts I've ever witnessed in my life.
    And thank you for your answers and insight!

    P.S. - As for Angel Dream (back on topic!), I'm looking forward to it with some curiosity. I didn't get the LP, but I'll be getting the CD when it comes out in July. As others have noted, She's The One never felt like a "real" album to me, but I was glad to have it because it was kind of a Wildflowers bonus disc, with an EP's worth of great new tracks. I'm looking forward to hearing how this new one gels as the long-lost 1996 TP & the Heartbreakers album.
     
  19. windfall

    windfall Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Hoping for a curated Fillmore set next, as mentioned often before, not least by Mike Campbell. Bottom line: it needs to include Mike's own "The Date I Had with That Ugly Homecoming Queen". A monster riff worthy of Led Zeppelin.

    I don't think it will ever happen but more than once I have wished for a 1981 full show - or, again, the appearance of one from culled from the tapes that exist. Every performance I have heard from that era is stunning (selections appear on Plantation, Live Anthology, American Treasure) and while we have quite a few FM and board tapes circulating from 77-99, this is the one tour that lacks high quality bootleg documentation. We need all the duets w Stevie - Stop Draggin' my Heart Around, Insider, Needles and Pins. And a good selection of those great covers they were doing like Wild Thing, Pretty Ballerina and Louie Louie.

    Well, I can dream.
     
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  20. tlake6659

    tlake6659 Senior Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Can anyone ask Tom Petty's daughter Adria what her father had sequenced the twenty-five selections onto one gold compact disc?
     
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  21. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    I would love some full concerts, but I don't know if we'll ever get that. Tom never released a full audio concert when he was alive and I think I read something awhile back where if anything live gets released it would be along the same lines of the Live Anthology and Pack Up The Plantation where it would be a compilation of songs from different shows.
     
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  22. Adam Schellin

    Adam Schellin Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Where would have "Mary Jane" landed? I don't know if it's Wildflowers or Angel Dream.
     
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  23. KinkySmallFace1991

    KinkySmallFace1991 I'm a 20th Century Man

    Maybe a non-album single? “Walls (Circus)” certainly feels like a non-album single now…
     
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  24. Not related to this Ryan but while you’re here what a fantastic job you did on the mix for the Mick Fleetwood Peter Green concert.Of course the raw materials are pretty great but the mix is beyond stellar.
    Now back to our regular programming.Very much looking forward to Angel Dream.
     
  25. jmxw

    jmxw Fab Forum Fan

    I appreciate you posting here whenever you can!

    Thanks for sharing your insights into the track selection and sequencing. I am looking forward to buying this and hearing it. [And, yes, I am one who appreciates having all the "raw materials", even if we don't have an official track list...]

    Not only can you not type a$$hole on SH, I found out on a different thread you also cannot type "pen is" without the space. [Honestly, I was innocently trying to make a valid point, nothing lascivious... :ignore: ]
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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