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"Tomorrow Never Knows": did the Beatles invent "beats"?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Disraeli Gears, May 13, 2016.

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  1. dewey02

    dewey02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The mid-South.
    And once Ringo sang (cough, cough) it at Shea Stadium, country music was never the same again.
     
  2. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I read that The Model wasn't released as an A side until some time in 1981... It was the B side before that. Plus, it hit number one in the UK and not the US.
     
  3. jimod99

    jimod99 Daddy or chips?

    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    The US is not the world.

    The Beatles, and The Chemical Brothers, and The Bee Gees for that matter are all British!
     
  4. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I agree, but the UK isn't the whole world either. Hitting #1 in the US is a big deal for a British act. It doesn't matter, though. I don't think The Beatles influenced drum looping as was suggested in the original post (just to get us back on topic).
     
  5. tremspeed

    tremspeed Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Well... yes and no. It's definitely not contemporary, like this year or this century even, eg., it lacks the ticking hi hats of a trap beat. It sounds like an 80s/90s hip hop beat which were almost universally sampled 60s and 70s records. The Beatles, James Brown and the Winstons were not ahead of their time because they made beats that sounded like 90s music- the 90s artists were throwing back to those eras, mostly to obscurities from the time.

    Sampling the Beatles, even an awesome beat like TMW was sort of no-go for a few reasons. One, hip hop beatmaking prides itself on obscurity and crate digging, and the Beatles are about the least "dug" thing you could sample. It was considered a little gauche among some when the Beastie Boys came out with Paul's Boutique which sampled the hooks of well known records (including, yes, an entire song of Beatles samples). Another reason was probably fear of litigation, even before there was really settled law about sampling it was probably considered pretty risky to go there (the Beasties album was on Capitol).

    That said, I agree that the song does feel strangely prophetic and certainly suggests the Chemical Brothers / Prodigy style of Big Beat electronica even if the drums are not looped.
     
  6. tremspeed

    tremspeed Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    On the Run is sequenced, not looped. I'm not particularly aware of Kraftwerk using taped loops. They used tape echo, certainly, and later on sequencers. If there's a particular song you're suggesting has a taped loop throughout the song I'd be curious to hear.
     
  7. ralphb

    ralphb "First they came for..."

    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    I posted something from Terry Riley's Music for the Gift upthread. It makes use of samples, collage and loops, and was recorded between 1962 and 1965.
     
  8. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    The hi hat sound in On The Run by Pink Floyd is an actual loop. You can hear the click every time it starts over again. Every two beats in fact. If Kratwerk didn't use loops, then why did they get brought up in this thread (I didn't do it)? Also, by "loop" I don't mean a physical tape loop in a literal sense. It's anything where something is artificially repeated. These days, it's copying and pasting the same drum beat over and over again in Pro Tools. That's still a loop to me.
     
  9. bluesbro

    bluesbro Forum Hall of Shame

    Location:
    DC
    Just when you thought the forum could not get any whiter ...
     
  10. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I really hope that wasn't directed at anything I said. I disagree with the first post in this thread. The Beatles did not invent "beat making".
     
  11. tremspeed

    tremspeed Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    That's sequenced by an EMS Synthi AKS. It's well known in synth circles. Both the melody and percussive white noise were sequenced at the same time, as demonstrated here: (melody and pattern slightly changed to protect the innocent). If they weren't both sequenced they wouldn't lock in as tightly as they do.

    I'm with you that a loop doesn't have to be actual tape, but I would draw a distinction between "trance"-ish repetition of actual playing (such as TNK) and artificial means to that end.
     
  12. tremspeed

    tremspeed Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    They weren't even the best Beat in Beatles
     
    Devon and chronic kebab like this.
  13. Disraeli Gears

    Disraeli Gears Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Very informative post! I appreciate the info. The genealogy of beats in hiphop culture is fascinating. Maybe the influence I'm hearing isn't so much hiphop but the Chemical Brothers/Prodigy "big beat electronica" house style you point out and I did in my first post. I do think Tomorrow Never Knows does anticipate a style/form of music that isn't fulfilled for approx 30 years.
     
    tremspeed likes this.
  14. NYSPORTSFAN

    NYSPORTSFAN Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york, newyork
    Do yourself a favor don't start a thread with The Beatles invented something because the haters will come out in forces. If anyone doesn't think "Tomorrow Never Knows" was not ahead of it's time there clearly wrong. They just don't know any better.

    Yeah sampled /tape collages over a repetitive up-front drum/bass patterns were really the norm of the day for what rock bands were doing in 1966. It's basically what much of modern pop music is based on. They were just years ahead of the curve.

    The influence is felt from everyone from Hendrix to Public Enemy who both actually based tracks on "Tomorrow Never Knows"
     
    Disraeli Gears likes this.
  15. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I totally agree. Repetition like the "real" playing on TNK is not the same as doing something like looping, or sequencing using artificial means. Sequencing, like you pointed out for On The Run, is still looping in the case of the white noise portion in my opinion. It just repeats itself exactly every time around. The other things in On The Run change due to the various filters being manually manipulated. I think we're on the same page, though. I draw the same distinction you do.
     
  16. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise
  17. SecondHandNews

    SecondHandNews Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA, USA
    :laugh: I love when people execute "forum inside jokes."

    too funny.
     
    Fullbug, Gems-A-Bems and BadJack like this.
  18. Khaki F

    Khaki F Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kenosha, WI. USA
    Things The Beatles didn't invent:
    The Wheel.
    Boats.
    Fire.

    Kidding aside, the closest thing I've found that resembles "Beats" in a Beatles song is the percussion in Blue Jay Way.
     
  19. 905

    905 Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I'm not a McCartney scholar or Lennonologist, but Paul contributed to this one quite a bit I think.
     
  20. ralphb

    ralphb "First they came for..."

    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    This is where the problem starts. Anybody who dares to doubt the Beatles influence musically or culturally is "wrong" and they "just don't know any better". Wording like that is like throwing down a gauntlet.
     
  21. NYSPORTSFAN

    NYSPORTSFAN Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york, newyork
    You do know that on "Strawberry Fields Forever" there are looped cymbals/drums on it though it is backwards. Hendrix did the same thing on "Are You Experienced?
     
    Disraeli Gears likes this.
  22. NYSPORTSFAN

    NYSPORTSFAN Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york, newyork
    The thing is I wouldn't start a thread like this. I just would have said something or try to start a thread on "Tomorrow Never Knows" influence on modern electronic music or rock music in general. To be honest I do stand on what I say about The Beatles haters though.
     
  23. This Heat

    This Heat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I am sorry but what the hell I am missing here? I mean isn't the song basically inspired by Indian music beats? And, yeah, tape loops can be found in a lot avant-garde music prior.
     
  24. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    That's just backwards stuff. Those aren't loops the way I define them. It's no different than Blue Jay Way where the entire song is played back backwards and faded in and out. That's not looping.
     
  25. Disraeli Gears

    Disraeli Gears Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Is there a problem with me asking the question I did in my OP? I was not arguing for any claim that they DID invent beats/anticipate beat culture, but I merely ASKED if anyone else thinks there are links or if someone more knowledgeable than I could point to something I didn't know. I deferred to the historians of the board!! I don't think there's a problem with asking a question to expand my own knowledge, is there?
     
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