'Tone Poet' Jazz Reissue Series*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by cds23, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. Trifonius

    Trifonius Jazz lover

    Location:
    Europe
    Thats a nice link, thanks! It actually makes sense I think. At the conservatory we had exams in playing ‘Coltrane changes’; these are modulations major thirds down at fast harmonic rhythm (2 bars) and were first used in Giant Steps. He used these changes a lot later in standards where he substituted them like Satellite (which is ‘How high the moon with Coltrane changes), Countdown (‘Tune up’), body and soul and night has a thousand eyes on his great album Coltrane’s sound and I’m sure some more. However, lady bird (Dameron) itself already has a modulation a major third away as has the standard Have you met miss Jones in the bridge. So it’s almost impossible to trace where it all started, there are so many different substitutions in all kinds of experiments that lead to one another. However i’d think that what became known as ‘Coltrane changes’ really took off with Giant Steps.
     
  2. rcsrich

    rcsrich Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Direct analog cut from the original master tapes. Premium jackets. Excellent quality. And not $120. ;)
     
  3. TerpStation

    TerpStation "Music's not for everyone."

    Location:
    Monterey, CA
    The well read Jazz Shepherd with a nice lecture on Blue Train:
     
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  4. Starquest

    Starquest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Streaming All Mornin Long now and it's really good. tasty Coltrane solo. But why is it mono? recorded 15 Nov 1957, shouldn't it be stereo? I thought RVG was recording stereo by that point. Maybe not for Prestige though.
     
  5. scotti

    scotti Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    Even though some are aware already, thought I would clarify anyway. Noticed a a few have commented on saying the new versions of Blue Train sound like a bit of compression was used. Sure the music has a bit of a kick/boost to it, making BT such a blast and fun to listen to again. I mentioned that to Joe last night and he responded that someone hit him up asking if compression was indeed used.

    Utterly impossible as Kevin hates compression and does not even have a functioning compressor, it's been broken for a very long time. I don't know about anyone else, but when I hear the word compression regarding music, I get very nauseous.
     
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  6. sfwya

    sfwya Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Why would somebody use compression at all? What is the use case?
     
  7. scotti

    scotti Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    I have no clue but it happens, quite often with CDs of course, but I have some records that no doubt have compression used. Mostly rock orientated titles and ones with a digital step.

    edit - I think the earbud family created it to wreak havoc on people like us that enjoy good sounding music...
     
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  8. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    It depends. Compression has been used in studios a lot more than you think. It can be used in any stage of recording, mixing, and mastering. Most people equate compression with the brick wall that was used on CD's to make them louder, but it had been a studio tool for a long, long time.
     
  9. rcsrich

    rcsrich Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Yep- been used for decades in the studio while recording where (IMO) it belongs, not in mastering. Some mild compression in mastering can add “punch,” but it can so easily be abused.
     
  10. scotti

    scotti Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    Absolutely and sometimes for the better depending what its used for, especially in movies. I was more poking fun at how it can be used in a negative sounding way. I never understood why some feel the need to brick wall the sound so much that it gives you fatigue as you listen.

    I read that Petty's producer Ryan Ulyate listened to folks regarding the new Fillmore set coming in November and that he is not over compressing the CD versions. That was not the case with the Anthology set from a few years ago that brick walled the CD versions. They delayed the vinyl release so I wanted it early and got the CD set before hand. When I complained how compressed it was, the response I got was they were trying to please fans that listen through earbuds, I kid you not.
     
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  11. LongHairedJazz

    LongHairedJazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Does anyone else have a copy where they noticed a non-fill type noise in the silence between Blue Train and Moment's Notice?
     
  12. BornBeforeTheWind

    BornBeforeTheWind Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    Finally here. Which one do I play first?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. rcsrich

    rcsrich Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Both at the same time…go tri-phonic, man! Srsly tho, I say the mono first…
     
  14. TheTalkingDrunk

    TheTalkingDrunk Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I missed this new documentary. Thank you for pointing out its existence. Will be adding this to my watch list for sure.
     
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  15. mbg

    mbg Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
  16. Hankenstein

    Hankenstein Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aachen, Germany
    Jason Lyon (said pianist who wrote this blogpost) is great! Personally, I have sawn Moment's Notice more in the tradition of II-V labyrinths such as Blues for Alice, Dance of the Infidels and Stablemates, while Lazy Byrd was an experiment that might have lead Trane into discovering his signature changes. But seeing all of Trane's mentioned tunes (Moment's Notice, Lazy Bird, Giant Steps, Countdown) on a continuum makes sense, too.

    If you have time, check out this piano trio version by contemporary pianist Danny Grissett. The more modern changes where conceived by Nicholas Payton, if I remember the booklet right.
     
  17. Greenmonster2420

    Greenmonster2420 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central Ohio
    What is adding the kick/boost, then? EQ?
     
  18. scotti

    scotti Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    I guess, I'm far from an engineer, but we do know compression was not added. I think that brings up an excellent question, just what did Kevin do to get these to sound as they do. Anyone with more knowledge, feel free to chime in here.
     
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  19. imsjry

    imsjry Forum Resident

    Location:
    Neenah, WI
    PBS.com has it all for view now. And the streaming app too.
     
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  20. dastinger

    dastinger Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    Got my Mono BT and I can't add more than what it was said already.

    Great sounding record and I'm happy I got the Mono. My Wally Stereo cut sounds terrific and is probably cut from the original tapes so all I was missing was this mono for Blue Train. And I won't say it's bottom tier Coltrane, but there's a ton of his albums I'd put ahead of this one. Even if it was, bottom tier Coltrane is still pretty damn good.

    The pressing is not up to the usual RTI standards. Side A is a bit noisy and there's a slight edge warp. Hope the noise goes away after a few plays. The warp doesn't bother me. Still, it's a keeper.

    I vote for Joe to add one of this classic titles to each year's schedule. I know I know, I'll stop dreaming.
     
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  21. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez Forum Resident

    Sorry, but I don’t remember. I haven’t listened to it in a long time, and since the MoFi 45 came out that’s what I reach for when I play E.S.P.
     
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  22. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez Forum Resident

    Compression is used quite a bit for CDs…the so-called “loudness wars”. I think it’s an artifact of the popularity of music on the go (cars, earbuds, etc), and mostly loathed by people who are serious about listening to music on nice systems.

    Kevin Gray doesn’t have a functioning compressor, so it’s certainly not used on the Tone Poets or anything else he does. I suppose when he masters to digital, that could get compressed elsewhere downstream in the delivery, but it’s not the case for LPs since he cuts the laquers.
     
  23. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez Forum Resident

    Not only is tomorrow release day for Charles Lloyd Trios:Ocean but also Joni Michell’s nect round of reissue sets, this time her first four Asylum records. If they sound anything like the Reprise box they should be excellent. My copy arrives tomorrow.

    I will also know tomorrow if I am going to Denver in November to see the Charles Lloyd Ocean Trio.
     
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  24. bjlefebvre

    bjlefebvre Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC-ish
    That'd actually be fun if they did it "reader poll" style.
     
  25. Mr. Heartbreak

    Mr. Heartbreak Deep in the heart of darkest America

    Location:
    US
    Already had a stereo version of Blue Train, so I opted for the mono. Finally arrived yesterday from uDiscover, in great shape.

    I'm glad to have a mono version to compare to the stereo, but as a Coltrane completist (I know, the avatar is a dead giveaway), it's far from my favorite album of his. I dig the classic quartet run, particularly from Live at Birdland through First Meditations. Blue Train is definitely my favorite Coltrane Blue Note record, though. :D

    As for Lee Morgan's contributions here, I agree that they're great. But I'm also a bit of a Morgan fanatic, too, and lean more toward his Blue Note sessions as a leader--the masterpiece Search for the New Land being my #1 hope for an upcoming Tone Poet, or BNC at least.
     

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