Too Many Speakers — Help Me Whittle Down the List

I have ProAc Studio 100 and they are not hifi sounding, they have good midrange and are used a lot in studios all around the world for nearfields.

 

And that’s the crux of the matter.

When I was choosing speakers back in 2017, Russell K Red 150s weren’t on my radar, and when I did listen to them at the dealer I rejected them.

However, after I got the “more favoured” speakers home for an extended listen and they didn’t work out, I reconsidered things and asked to borrow the Red 150s. Once I got them home, they then saw off all contenders, including Dynaudio Contour 20, Spendor D7, Proac SM100, Proac Response D18 and my own Monitor Audio GS60.

This is why a home audition is essential, and why it’s important to exercise caution regarding the basing of decisions upon what you hear in a dealer’s listening room. The two times that I made a speaker purchase based solely upon a dealer audition I ended up taking the speakers swiftly back after being hugely disappointed by what I heard.

 

I rejected their successors - the SM100 - in favour of my Red 150s, but I sit further away from my speakers than the OP sits from theirs and, perhaps, the SM100 is more suitable as a nearfield monitor. I know that my local dealer - Deco Audio - really rates them.

 

Honestly the only people I’ve met that find Harbeth to excel at dynamics and be good at low volume are fans of the brand. They’re are all kinds of comments out there criticizing their presentation of dynamics. To clarify I consider low volume listening to top out around 80db. Most speakers start to loosen up and sound good around 85db or so. Outside of the SHL5+ I personally couldn’t live with a pair. Though about 70% of what I listen to is rock. I do love their midrange presentation.

Totally agree, JA speakers are amazing. Especially considering how easy to drive they are. Their driver and crossover tech is incredible. Though they are one of the most HiFi sounding speakers out there. They can be ruthlessly revealing. But I heard them with Moon Audio gear not tubes. In a room the size of the OPs with the set up on the long wall I can’t imagine they would work. They need space, are very hifi sounding and have a big bottom end. Not bloated or bad, just surprisingly big for their size.

Most of the speakers mentioned are good speakers. It’s just the setup the OP is going for is hard to pull off. I tried it for awhile and while room decor wise it worked best, sound wise it couldn’t compare to speakers firing down the length of the room. In that kind of setup I’ve found the best performance is either provided by near field speaker placement or by getting speakers that can be placed up against the rear wall or that will do well being close to the wall. In my current room I’ve got Cornwalls and they only work well because they can be placed against the walls and provide me with about 12 feet of distance to my current sitting position. If I had to pull them 3 feet of the wall I’d need new speakers.

 

Well I understand why the Harbeths generally wouldn't be for you! Wow, I've never seen anyone consider "low volume listening" to go up to 80db. My own listening at it's loudest (when in the room) rarely reaches 80 db! That's LOUD listening for me! I, and most people I'm aware of, tend to think of lower volume listening closer to or a bit above conversation level, say between 63 to maybe 70 db. "Late night listening when other people are asleep" kind of stuff.

One of the things I like about the Harbeths is that, to me, they sound very even and balanced and cohesive. I have the sense of hearing the mix "in the right balance" where it makes sense. And I find the richness of the Harbeth sound to be rewarding even with rock - where guitars are rich, bass full but not overwhelming, vocals sound human. Again, definitely not for head-bangers (you sound like you listen loud), but if you don't need a really loud playing speaker, I find the Harbeths are great across any musical genre.

The Sim Moon gear is great with Joseph Audio! My dealer's favorite combo. I ultimately prefer tubes, though.

 

I like LS50s but couldn't get along with the R3s at all.

If you can afford the likes of JA Pulsars there is no reason to consider speakers like the R3.

 

I’ve had/heard Dynaudio, ProAc, Harbeth, Spendor, all great speakers, but none come close to the natural, even, honest presentation of my ATC SCM 40 passives, great bass too.

 

The 3 JA models he mentioned would all be perfect in his room setup (especially the Prisms and Pulsars). I have customers running all 3 models in rooms smaller than this (I used to run a pair of Pulsars in 12x12 room at my old house). And while they are for sure highly detailed and revealing, ruthless is last thing I would call them. They are exceptionally easy speakers to listen to (one of things that initially drew me to JA speakers many years ago due to my ears being very, very sensitive to speakers that can come across extremely detailed and sharp).

 

Well with the reference of normal conversation being 60db and a rock concert coming in at 110db. I figure I do most of my serious listening between 75 and 85 db. I am nerdy enough to actually have used an SPL meter and some software to setup my current room. I mean come on there’s always the Fletcher Munson Curve to account for and the fact that, unless you are listening to high efficiency drivers and horns, there is no way the music your listening to is going to sound real at 65 dB. That is just a touch above normal conversation. The reason I’m running Cornwalls now and strongly leaning toward a pair of Heresy 4s is because most dynamic driver speakers don’t sound their best till you give them some real volume. I mean I’m not worried about attracting sharks so I dig some bass and dynamics.

I do get why you like Harbeth. There is something to that BBC sound and that bump. That’s their own way of addressing the curve and it does make them sound fuller at low volumes then a speaker like the JA. Which JA do you have?

 

I’ve known all kinds of people that run speakers in rooms that are less than ideal. I personally feel you should buy speakers that work naturally in your room or as close to as possible. I’ve heard the JA Pulsars a lot, I’m sure you’ve spent much more time with them, and have never seen them run flat up against a wall. Usually they are set up 3 feet or more into the room. I have seen them too close to a rear wall and they suffered like all stand mounts that are capable of bass do. They sounded amazing pulled a bit less than a 1/3 of the way into the room, a bit over 4 feet from the rear walls. Pulsars are great speakers but they are hifi sounding and need room to get the best out of them and to avoid problems on the bottom end. How do you demo them? Unless that 7 feet the OP stated is factoring in having the speakers pulled 3 feet out from the wall I’d pass.

I am not familiar with the Prism but with the decrease in bass output indicated indicated in the specs I’d love to hear them.

 

As with most speakers, pulling them out from the wall generally is best. But you absolutely do not need to have Pulsars 4 feet out in the room for them to sound fantastic. And yes, I have run them against walls (the aforementioned 12x12 room had them less than 12" out). I have 2 separate customers that run Pulsars in actual bookshelf units. Not stating that this is optimal, but certainly more than functional and the speakers still sound quite good.

 

I have the original Perspectives. They can sound incredibly "big" for their size. Beautiful tonality, walk-in-to-it soundstage, juicy punchy bass, and incredibly clear smooth mids and highs. The word that describes the overall sound that keeps coming to my mind when I listen to them is "luxurious."

BTW, far from being sculpted with obvious bulges, the latest Harbeths actually measure very linear:

Harbeth Monitor 30.2 40th Anniversary Edition loudspeaker Measurements

The Super HL5plus in particular:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../screenshot-2020-04-16-at-12-16-22-png.58941/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../screenshot-2020-04-16-at-12-16-33-png.58942/

"The extension and linearity of the Harbeth SuperHL5plus's frequency response is in my memory unprecedented."

 

Yeah, if that. What ever happened to the good old days?!? Van Halen 1984 117 dB from row 30. Iron Maiden's giant Turbosound rig, 126 db (!!) at about 50 m from stage. Motorhead (with Brian Robertson) even louder but I didn't take my meter that time. Of course I'd wear earplugs to knock down the mid but you could FEEL the bass. Nowadays I guess economics rule and the only time I've really felt the bass strongly lately was a Chvrches show in Vegas at Brookly Bowl in 2019. Others like U2, Arcade Fire, Green Day just seemed like they needed bigger PA setups. Even the might Maiden is not as loud, though they have to fit it all in the plane so I'll cut them a break

Anyway most folks are not looking to play THAT loud at home so I guess 110 would be enough

 

Yes! LOL. I remember seeing Guns n Roses at the Pantages Thearter in LA in 91. I lost my ear plugs halfway through. It was rough. The 500K watt Maiden setup was f ing stupendous! Without plugs I think I would be deaf now.

 

That looks pretty sweet. I could live with the SHL5+. It’s a great speaker that does everything well. Just not at low volumes. For me anyway but with some current behind them they sound great. Didn’t realize that Harbeth had done away with that BBC bump but with better drivers I guess they don’t need it as much. Good reads. Thanks.

 

I agree with @russk that Harbeths are not very dynamic, especially at low levels.

Some Klipsch and JBL models are good for low volumes but lack the midrange purity of the BBC-lineage brands.

ProAc might be a good go-between. The Response D2s are probably an ideal size for your room.

 

Interesting. Would love to hear further takes on this.

Oh, I dunno... 36-40” tall, 7-14” wide, 9-15” deep, kinda around there.

Can go pretty high, it’s more a matter of what I can justify to myself/how impressed I am.

JA Pulsars are on my list and they’re $9K, so I could go that high, sure. But if there’s something out there that sounds 90 percent as good for half the money, then that might grab me too.

#miser?
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It is factored in. The short axis of the room is 11.7 feet, and the ‘listening couch’ is almost right up again the wall.
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In that case I’d give a listen to the Spendor A4. It’s a great all around speaker. Not as dynamic as Klipsch or JBL but not bad and a fantastic midrange with decent bass but they would in no way get boomy with the room you have

 

This has always kind of angered me... rock (and other) acts idiotically inflicting perhaps permanent hearing damage on masses of their own fans. And for what?

I recall going to a Dire Straits concert as a teenager in the ‘80s, and my ears ringing for TWO DAYS afterwards. Wtf?

To the extent various acts have toned it down in recent years, I have to wonder if legal liability played a role. It should.
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So far I’ve only heard ATCs via internet vids and headphones, but I was shocked at the degree of ‘veil removal’ ATCs can do. It’s almost crazy.

There was also an A-B comparo of some ATC SCM 11s or 19s (forget which) vs KEF LS50s, and the poor KEFs simply got humiliated... it was a night-and-day type spanking, with the ATCs making the KEFs sound weirdly veiled and like the music was oh-so-obviously coming from a box.

They weren’t the Metas IIRC, but still.
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For the FEEL of it! And I always though fans were stupid for not wearing earplugs, and STILL are stupid because shows are still loud enough to cause damage. Same mentality as skateboarding without a helmet I guess. But yeah you have a point, although I'll tell you what is louder than concerts and that is NIGHTCLUBS oh my god I went to a birthday party and then went to my car to get earplugs, and it was STILL painfully loud.

So from your post, I guess you are not interested in these? I was going to offer you SUCH a deal...

 

The best for a smaller room would be towers with ports "under-tuned" so the response rolloff starts higher but extends lower...emulating a sealed box. I'm not sure how prevalent that is. Really the smoothest bass is likeliest with like 3 subs and DSP room correction, not everyone's cup of tea but there it is. Although parametric EQ can get rid of obnoxious peaks if you insert a quality unit ahead of your Bryston or I forget your other amp.

The Focal 936 would fit your dimensions. I can say they look really nice in gloss black and I can say that for the money YES they really are better than stuff around $2k which my other friend was looking at (Dynaudio, Martin Logan, KEF, B&W, Focal lesser series, Klipsch, jeez we listened to a lot of stuff. The Monitor Audio Silver 300s were close but the Focal still just smoother and integrated and...something. The 936 sound great with everything from Nat King Cole to Marillion to Jimi Hendrix to Rush, lots of classical, this cool thing Harmen Fraanje Quartet Featuring Nelson Veras - Sonatala ). Now would they fit your tastes and your room? Mmm, you'd have to try it.
--> whatever you get, a reasonable return policy and cost is absolutely key

 

Dude that’s quite a list. Lol
Not trying to be snarky but go listen to whatever you can get your hands on.
Everyone is gonna give you their own taste as it not your ears.
It’s almost kinda like asking everyone which food should I get.
All a matter of taste.

I have the Proac DT 8 and love em. Maybe you won’t.
Don’t know.

audition a ton.
My two cents.

 

Would be afraid they’d fall down and crush me.

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