Topping D50 D/A Converter. Worthwhile?

The Yaqin SD CD-3 is as long as I can hear transparent distorsion wise, it doesn't adds any noise to the D/A converter's signal, the only thing it does is take the original signal, keep its impedance low to reduce distorsion and make the amplifier or preamp easier to "attack" because of the low output impedance and additional current reserve the Yaqin SD CD-3 adds, despite using to 6SN7 tubes it doesn't add any magical tube-like sound, at least not that I can hear. Of course the quality of tubes used have an impact on sound quality, the Chinese 6SN7 tubes provided with the SD CD-3 are of lousy quality, once they're changed this heavy little gadget works great.
Yes, I know most of the SACD discs I have start as PCM and most of the time it's hard to spot discs that got a standard res PCM master or a Hi Res PCM master. I have checked all my SACD's converted to 176.4/24 PCM frequency response with Spek and 'though there's no way to know if tha PCM master had a 16 or 24 bit resolution it does reveal the sampling frequency of the masters. Some examples of 44.1/48 Khz original masters released on SACD ate Queen's A Kind Of Magic, The Piano Soundtrack or the E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial 20th Anniversary soundtrack. Even if a master is analog it doesn't warranty that it has been transfered/mastered directly to DSD, the Top Gun soundtrack is an example of that. In the end even if I'm converting my SACD rips to 176.4/24 PCM by using the Topping D30 as an D/A converter I'm still hearing Delta-Sigma one bit or low bit high as that's how it converts digital back to analog. I must say I was and still am surprised at the Topping D30 sound quality and build quality for such a low price.

 

DSD over PCM (DoP) is not a conversion of anything, other than a lossless repackaging of the data. It's done on-the-fly with playback software (Foobar2000, JRiverMC, TASCAM HiRes Editor, Korg AudioGate etc.) so I don't think you have a reason to seek another device just to play DSD natively without having to do DoP, unless you have material that is DSD256 or higher.
I think the vast majority of SACDs are DSD64, and I don't think there is much material at DSD128 or higher.

 

The Topping D30 only plays DSD by its USB inputs, not it coaxial and optical inputs. DoP can also be a container just like DTS was "encapsulated" as PCM on DTS CD's, you can do DoP files which are WAV and can even compressed them to FLAC and they play as native DSD.

 

I think you might find that most devices that accept DSD and have optical/coaxial S/PDIF inputs will only accept DSD as DoP on those connections.

It seems you like having another device in the signal chain, and so a question of how much difference between the current D30 and a new D50 would be heard through your signal chain. Generally speaking, I;d say that extra equipment in the signal chain would mask differences earlier on in the chain, but it could do the opposite. Either way, I don't think there would be a particularly massive difference between the DACs anyway, they seem to all be made to be flat and neutral. Sure, maybe something subtle is there, but I wouldn't worry.

If a D50 comes up cheap enough for you, or a friend gets one, you can compare and make your own comparisons. Until then...save the money and enjoy your music.

 

This is sound advice. Listen to this man. It's tough for us to peruse the pages of Audio magazines, and resist the upgrade itch. You will not hear a massive difference in your music, i promise you. If you do, its in your head. It's in all of our heads. You've done your due diligence, now enjoy.

I myself am guilty of this as well, like I'm missing out. I think this is what marketing campaigns/firms live to do. Make you feel as if you're missing out on that 10% difference. In Audio, the difference isn't as apparent or stark as most things in life.

 

Yes, I know by looking at their specs that most D/A converters that can play DSD can also do it through their S/PDIF coaxial digital and TosLink Optical digital inputs, but not the Topping D30 which is the D/A converter I own which only accepts DSD via USB. You can do DoP files of up to DSD128, dBpoweramp can do it, on the configuration menu if one goes to "DSD" and there several options are found, convert DSD to PCM and the sample rate and bit depth of the conversion, or DoP that will output a WAV file with the original DSD file "encapsulated" inside. These DoP files can be output via HDMI or digital S/PDIF coaxial or TosLink optical by any device that can play and output up to 192/24 (the DoP files show up as being 176.1/24), like Sony UBP X-800 UHD BD/Universal Player I use. I have tested the Sony X-800 with a friend's D/A converter, I think it was an MSB, which accepted DoP via S/PDIF or TosLink (the Sony X-800 only has a S/PDIF cdigital coaxial ouput) aand both the DoP files I did from my ripped SACD's and the Sony X-800 worked with my friend's D/A converter as it displayed it was playing DSD and not PCM. Unfortunately the Topping D30 can't do that but I can't ask for more with the price the D30 is sold. For around 100/120 Euros one gets a top D/A converter that outperforms much much expensive converters from reputed brands plus native DSD playing via USB, and it's built like a tank.

 

And perhaps his measurements mean little if anything.

 

Sources? References to this argument?

 

There's an old quote that says. "If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, you've measured the wrong things." Perhaps the things that Amir measures and pushes as significant on his site, really aren't. I don't know. I approached his views with a very open mind and wanted to prefer the cheaper but better measuring Modi over the Bifrost, but I couldn't. I fully expected the Modi to sound better, but it didn't.

 

That is your subjective opinion, which you're entitled. It's your money. He just posts the measurements, you don't have to agree with them. But don't say they are incorrect without proof of them being incorrect. I don't know him personally, or have any reason to defend him, but I know he's doing something no one else dares to do in this field, and we benefit as a community. It forces honesty in the market, which, there is little.

 

Amir's methodology has been called into serious question. I believe he starts with a conclusion and backs into it.
If it sounds good, it is good.
I don't think you need to strain your brain about this. Enjoy the music!!

 

I have the D50 and I think it sounds great (especially given its very modest price). Neutral, clear but not harsh. I use the USB input and DoP from Foobar works perfectly fine for DSD. I have not heard the D30, so I can't compare and say if it would offer any improvement over it. BTW, I first used to power it with a cheap standard power supply from an electronics store. By now I just use a free USB port on my powered USB3 hub. I don't think I'm able to hear differences between power supplies.

 

Why don't you try to power it with a high capacity power bank? Their outputs are pure DC as batteries can't store and output AC.

 

Maybe at some point I might give it a try, but so far I haven't really felt the need to change anything. I also didn't want to spent a lot of extra money to upgrade a DAC that comes for such a reasonable price.

I might have to add that it's not my main DAC. I mostly use the DAC built into my AVM C5 receiver, because I think it sounds a little fuller and warmer. But since it's limited to 24/96 PCM, I often switch to the D50 for DSD or anything higher than 24/96. The differences between both DACs are not big, mind you, which is surprising since the AVM C5 was a pretty pricey piece of gear. Only goes to show what you can get for relatively small money nowadays.

 

One thing I wonder is if the FiiO X3 MK II outputs DSD over PCM by its USB port. The FiiO X3 MK II has a coaxial digital output that can output either PCM up to 192/24, DSD converted to PCM (never checked at what resolution) and DSD over PCM. That would be great even if I had to buy some connector converters, I've never seen a cable with a mini USB on one end and a USB A on the other.

 

I finally got the money to buy the Topping D50 which I ordered three weeks ago and I got it today. This little piece of Chinese metal sounds really great. I know it needs some hours to break in but out of the box it sounds oustanding, and with DSD files ripped from my SACDs it really shines. I didn't think it could sound so good for such a cheap price, it's amazing. It has 7 different digital filters to choose from for PCM and each one of them does make a difference. I personally like filters 3 (minimum phase fast roll-off filter) and 5 (linear phase fast roll-off filter) , I don't like how the remaining 5 sound, there's one, I don't remember its name, that makes music sound a bit harsh.
I'm powering with a LG Powerbank that has a capacity of 10400 mAh, the D50 has been working since I received it this morning at around 11 AM for 12 hours and the LG powerbank it's about to get to its lowest charge led, not bad.
I'm going to leave it all night working to break it in faster but it will be with a fully charged today EC Technology powerbank with a capacity of 22400 mAh and will check how much power it drains from it.
Here's a picture of the different digital filters, I'd like to know your opinions of them.

 

Just remember to make sure to level match if you compare it against your existing D30.
I think they are probably going to output pretty similar voltages, but still, you can't compare unless you closely level match.

I wondered what the filters do to the sound. The mobile-focused 9018K2M chip in the D10 has changeable filters too, but there is no control available to the user to change it.
Saying that, I have no issue with how the D10 sounds as it is anyway.

Good stuff, sounds like you are enjoying your new DAC.

 

This is an excellent DAC. Shhh. Don't tell everyone it will kill everything except the Benchmark pretty much

Edit: I think Mode 3 Min phase fast roll off looks the best to my eyes. I would have to hear it. Or Lin Phase fast rolloff.

 

You're absolutely right, filters 3 and 5 are the best sounding, at least for my taste. With both filters treble is preserved but not overly present, there's a sense o "air", microdetail seems to be preserved, sound is reproduced with ease, some of the other filters (I haven't tried them all yet) make the D50 sound "congested".
And yes, as L5730 stated a few posts ago I am in fact enjoying my Topping D50, this small and cheap Chinese supposed piece of junk (aren't all Chinese components from unkown Chinese brands actually junk?) sounds great with CD's and really shines with DSD and 192/24 and 96/24. Playing the Van Halen 2015 Roth era Bellman remasters at 192/24 rivals my LP playing of those albums on a Goldring GR-1 from 2005 (a hybrid of a Rega Planar 1 & 2) with an Audio Technica VM540ML cart and an EAR 834P "clone" tube Phono preamp with all NOS tubes, a NEC 12AD7 (an ultra low noise version of the 12AX7 developed by Sylvania and NEC for the first multitrack tape recorders in the 1950's, I love them), a Siemens branded Ei ECC83 as a V2 and a Matsushita 12AU7 as a V3.
Powering the D50 with a quality powerbank sounds really better than with a Sony 5 Volts @ 2 Amps charger that cost 20 Euros two years ago.

 

hi guys. I am thinking of buying this dac. Can I ask what power adapter should I get with eu plug?not us or uk. Any help like an ebay link, would be appreciated. where do you buy this dac in Europe? I'd like to avoid customs... And all links I find, send the dac from China. Cheers

 

I haven't found it at a reasonable price from an European seller.
The Topping D50 is powered by 5 Volts and 1 Amp. just like a mobile phone so you can go the cheap way and use a mobile phone charger, get a linear power supply that will make the Topping D50 sound better or get a high quality and capacity (over 10000 mAh will do) powerbank that will give you pure and stable AC current. I use an EC Technology that can be get inexpensively on European Amazons and it works great.

 

I got my Topping D50 playing now. I'm noticing nicer smoothness, warm clarity, transparency with DSD files. That was what I wanted, I did not want my DSD converted by JRiver to PCM before reaching the DAC (as it was previously). I want all 2-channel going to outboard D50 DAC, and then multi-channel going to Oppo 105D.

I've not yet figured out "zones" in Jriver just yet, so I am switching between DACs manually, but things are working and sound is smooth just as I'd hopped with the D50. Might be the best $199.99 I've spent on audio in a very long time.

 

You don't need a computer to play your stereo DSD files, you can play them with your Oppo 105D conected to your Topping D50, you just have to "convert" your DSD 64 stereo files into DSD over PCM (DoP) with dBPoweramp. No actual conversion is done, what this process does is get native DSD into a 176.4/24 PCM container, just like DTS was put into a PCM container on 5.1 DTS CD's back in the 1990's. No actual conversion is done, you just have to change a configuration option on dBPoweramp to get it done. A full DSD album takes seconds to convert to DoP and believe me, it works like a charm with the Topping D50.

 

Good to know dBpoweramp can do a converted “container” w/o a real conversion happening. But why on earth would I not want to use my computer directly to the D50 when it accepts DSD or dsf files without any of this container wrapper converting? In fact all stereo / 2-channel material is to go to the D50, MC to the Oppo.

I adore the computer interface for selecting among 100,000 albums of every genre. Why on earth would I want to give that up, and do dBpoweramp work after all the work I already have done to get this far?

Maybe I missed something?

 

I don't know,it's just a matter of taste. I personally dislike the idea of adding a computer to my Hi Fi system, but that's me, I'm very old school.