Topping D50 vs Schiit Modi Multibit vs Topping D30 vs SMSL M8A DAC

DSD playback gets complicated. The playback software has to be able to do it. I don't know how to do DSD playback on a Mac. You'll need to get help/advice from someone who knows how to do Mac audio and DSD.

 

You're absolutely right - you can not recreate missing information by upsampling like in those spy movies where they get the face of the spy from a Nokia 3310 picture.

The thing is, though, that most DACs upsamp!e anyway and different upsampling algorithms do sound different (not necessarily better or worse). So, if you find an algorithm that YOU like better and feed the DAC an already upsampled data, thereby disabling its own internal processing, you can actually get a sound that pleases YOU more than the one DAC designers chose.

 

The Topping D50 DAC is the clear winner for me: And for 249 USD it cannot be beat

although I will note that my DAC required about 10 hours of warm up over about 4 days to get up to its full strength/potential

 

Don't worry, I wasn't asking you to give me some advice.
I checked Audirvana's community forum just in case and it seems to be a long unresolved issue.
I don't need dsd upsampling, but I will toy around with the other algorithms and see which one I like for each type of music.

 

Completely agree with you that it would be nice to have double-blind test results as well, but at the same time it's hard to fault a guy for failing to do something he's not even trying to do. If his measurements are wrong, that's something I'd want to know. Otherwise, I consider them helpful to have. They don't answer the question "What's better?" but they're helpful to have, as like most here I suspect I'm in the position of usually having to buy something in order to listen to it.

 

Yep, the guy is a measurements guy and no more. He never claimed to do subjective testing. If people want to see better subjective testing they should go complain to the hi-fi rags and subjectivist reviewers. Most of these reviewers and mags do a poor job of subjective testing when they do compare two or more products and lack a basic understanding of how such testing should be done to avoid outside influences. Part of the reason they don't do better subjective testing is advertising dollars. Then a youtuber or whatever comes along and mimics that flawed testing because "that's the way the pro reviewers do it". Oh, and they don't forget to throw in a bunch of nonsense audiophile speak terms either.

 

I just ordered the Topping D50S to run with my DigiOne. The last few days I've borrowed a friend's Pro-ject Pre Box S2 which sounds terrific. I'm guessing the Topping will have a similar sound for less money (and no headphone out). Even saved 10% today at amazon.

 

I had a DacMagic Plus before the Benchmark, which is also (obviously) very neutral since the jump to the DAC3 wasn't as big as I expected, although I never compared them fairly side by side, as in equalizing the volume leves etc. and I was using the wrong subwoofer phase with the DacMagic. It even falls into that price range but finding one used would be an even better bargain.

 

Another explanation for why I suggested using some different resampling algorithms to try to fix a recording that sounds wrong on a Schiit multibit is because the Schiit multibits use an optimized filter that causes phase issues in a recording to be more obvious. With the Schiit DACs I can flip the absolute phase and hear that some of the imaging and presentation in the recording changes. With many delta-sigma DACs I can't hear that sort of change. The Schiit multibits make phase issues in the recording more obvious. The flip side of that is with very good recordings where everything is in phase you can hear all of that goodness.

So, using a different resampling algorithm that is not so optimized like that can kinda blur and cover-up the phase problems in the recording and make it easier to listen to. You won't be distracted so much by the phase problems being so obvious.

But the problems in the Philip Jeck - Live in Geneva recording are so wrong that I don't think that would fix the recording. It may help a little. But won't fix. Even using a different DAC won't fix. The problem in that recording is likely due to microphone placement and microphone setup. The fix would be to go back in time and give the audio engineer there a Schiit multibit DAC to listen to how the microphones are setup and the recording system is setup and fix those problems before recording the live performance.

 

The Topping D70 is about $500 and "measures" well.

 

I'd approach all chinese made dac's with caution, including the DacMagic. One of the reasons for upgrading was that I suspected it was about to have a component failure - It had started to produce more pops and clicks from the same usb port that I had always used, and twice a strange, electronic noise or distortion over the track being played. The latter at least went away if I rebooted the device. I've used the DAC3 with the same usb port for 8 months with no problems so the fault was likely with the DacMagic. They may work well when they work, but they probably won't last for decades without the capacitors being replaced.

 

Like it or not a lot of things are made in China these days. The key is to buy from a retailer that will stand behind the product for the expected time the person will own it. Most people aren't going to keep a DAC for 10 years. Keep in mind also that these things are mostly put together with surface mount parts. It's not like you're going to take one down to the same old school tech that fixes your turntable and or 1970s receiver.

FWIW the little SMSL I use at my desk has been working fine for over a year.

I said this before but if someone wants a Chinese brand DAC, check out Apos Audio. They offer a 2 year warranty on most of the Chinese brands.

And if someone doesn't want to buy a Chinese brand for any reason, no big deal. Lots of other brands out there. Measurements for one of the new JDS Labs models is out, and they look good.

 

I've owned the Topping D50 for around 8 months and I'm extremely happy with it. It's built like a tank, it's small but sounds "big", it plays all flavors of Hi Res files and excells at it and DSD playing is outstanding, it makes my Pioneer A/V receiver SC-LX76 pale in comparison when playing SACD/DSD files. I have all my SACD's ripped, their tracks extracted from the ISO's and converted into DSD-over-PCM files with dBPoweramp so I can play my SACD's from a SSD conected to a Sony X-800 UHD BD player and using its digital coaxial output to the Topping D50 digital coaxial input.
I even compared the Topping D50 to my first Sony SACD/CD player from 2003,a QS model that is very well built and has always sounded great until I got an Oppo BDP-93 in 2011 (I no longer own the Oppo, I regret selling it). The SACD/CD only player also pales playing either SACD's or CD's next to the Topping D50.
The Topping D50 sounds great at playing PCM both CD's or Hi Res files,but its DSD playing is really something else, its DSD playing is outstanding.

 

well, your loss if you believe Amir. he pick and choose the measurements he wants to show. he wants topping to be good, and will purposely decide to not show some of their flaws in measurments.
" what about one Topping AIO which had horribad output impedance, which Amir conveniently did not test and did not mention. Had this been a PS Audio or Schiit product, he would have had a field day.

What about Amir excusing AC mains noise on preferred vendors, while calling them out on vendors he did not like."

 

I can't offer any opinions on any of these DACs, though Schiit have a good rep. Looking at the price range of these DACs, I would consider looking at the Zen DAC from ifi. USB input only but offers a balanced headphone jack and balanced line out (both 4.4mm)

 

"He wants Topping to be good"? According to whom and why?

 

This is a totally legitimate point of view, and at the same time, I think the fact that "most people aren't going to keep a DAC for 10 years," which I also agree with, points me in a different direction, which is that I know if I am buying something made in China or Korea or what have you, even if I may be taking on a slightly bigger risk of the thing failing (or maybe not), I'm also quite likely getting a much bigger bang for my buck. The quality one can get for $250 when spending it on something made in China or Korea is astonishing. Would easily cost you more than a grand 10 years ago -- if it even could be had.

 

its quite obvious.

"what about one Topping AIO which had horribad output impedance, which Amir conveniently did not test and did not mention. Had this been a PS Audio or Schiit product, he would have had a field day.

What about Amir excusing AC mains noise on preferred vendors, while calling them out on vendors he did not like."

 

I guess what I'm trying to find out is who you are quoting. It's not obvious to me he has a bias. The folks I see in this forum claiming he does seem to be Schiit fans. Maybe they're right. I don't know. Maybe they have a bias.

 

When a Schiit product measures well, it gets a good review. Some Schiit products actually do measure well. The claims of anti-Schiit bias are just b.s.

 

I own a Topping D50 I I couldn't care less about its output impedance as I have it conected to a Yaqin SD-CD3 "tube buffer" that that's what they do, take a high or uneven output impedance and keep it low so it's easier on the preamp's or integrated amp's inputs. I have tried my Topping D50 with and without the Yaqin tube buffer in the middle and it sounds much better with the Yaqin tube buffer between the D50 and my Pioneer AVR.
The Yaqin SD-CD3 has a low output impedance that is always desirable. I've put a pair of NOS RCA 6SN7 GTB with black plates from the 1960's on it, mediocre tubes have an impact on sound on the Yaqin SD-CD3.
Many people think as tube buffers only adds distorsion and use tubes on a cathode follower configuration the quality of tubes don't matter much. Wrong!!!

 

you missed the point.

Amir conveniently ommited to NOT show the bad measuring side of the Topping in question. He did that for obvious reasons.

I personally have no trust at all in his measurements methods or his ears or his supposedly "science" based approach to the hobby. He is bias and dishonest imo.

edit:
Topping D50 to Yaquin sd-cd3 to a Pioneer AVR. if your tube buffer adds distortion, with that setup, you couldnt hear it

 

Isn't the whole DACs measurement controversy rooted in the opposing views on what DAC is supposed to do? Some prefer to consider it an as-much-transparent-as-possible device (leaving any subjective sound evaluations for amps and speakers), while the others view it as another potentially sound-shaping link in the chain. And obviously, if you are partial to the second opinion, your preferred DACs may alter the sound and thus measure worse.

I followed @Night Flanger's advice and picked a discounted Cambridge Audio DacMagic (the base version though) to see whether it betters my Schiit Modi Multibit in those cases where the latter lets me down. And I am very happy with the result, because it works exactly as suggested delivering more defined/precise sound when need arises.

Thus the aforementioned Philip Jeck's Live in Geneva is more listenable as are some other average sounding live sets like The Jam's Live at the Rainbox, Butthole Surfers' Double Live or Supersilent's 5. In other better recorded/produced cases I still like my old Schiit better, because overall it sounds less clinical/digital. Or imprecise/euphonically-sweetened, as some prefer to hear it.

However, I have to admit that I cannot hear any difference between the two in ultra-clean productions, say David Sylvian's Secrets of the Behive (remaster). It seems to me that Schiit DAC fixes/messes with the sound only if the recording quality is lacking; otherwise it just works like any other quality DAC. That's how I can hear using my ears and current playback set-up.

 

"However, not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
I have a Topping D70 DAC and an Airist R2R DAC plus the DAC in the Yamaha A-S801 and the DAC in the Onkyo DX-C390.
In my system the D70, A-S801, and DX-C390 presented a very similar sound when using CDs or laptop sources. But the R2R DAC added a coloration that I found enjoyable and this DAC measured poorly on ASR. So I guess all the intermodulation distortion for the R2R added coloration which I favored over the other DACs.

 

Nice to know, thanks! I pondered upon a D70, but as I wanted something really different than just 'another' DS dac, I also went with the R2R route in the end.