Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Deuce66, Nov 12, 2018.
One of these followed me home from Wal-Mart the other day.
Music Composed and Conducted by Randy Newman - fantastic score - familiar themes with new heartbreaking cues. And they let Randy sing a montage again.
How cute is FORKY??
That last line where he meets... well, see the movie. But hilarious and philosophical end bit!
Randy is one of the last of the greats who writes out his charts and composes "old school". With a PENCIL.
Re-live it with the soundtrack out now!
Just saw it.
That's different than usual how?
I feel resentment for Bonnie. Andy asked her to take care of his toys, and Woody was the most important to him and what did she do? Leave him in the closet like trash (while she played with actual trash instead). Woody tried to hard to make her transition to Kindergarten comfortable, and this is how he is repaid?
Did Woody have to go away because cowboys in general are symbols of toxic masculinity? Is this another movie with a message? Will Buzz be the next to go?
I didn't like how most of the old characters sat on the sidelines for most of the film. Some didn't even mutter a word (which, in some cases, is understandable as their voice actors have passed on).
They should have stopped at 3.
4 was an OK movie, cool animation, but story was a little on the weak side, but I'm tired of having to leave every Disney film I see now with some feeling of loss. (Last Jedi, Ralph Breaks Internet, etc). It's not fair, dammit! Stop making people go away! Daddy!
I'll go out on a limb and say you don't have any kids? The whole notion that Bonnie did something wrong by favoring certain toys or accepting Woody under false pretenses is just anathema to child development. Logic doesn't begin to set in until age 7 in most kids. Also, school can be a very difficult transition for children, and they get hugely stressed out and react in illogical ways--I'm sure we all can remember ourselves behaving like that if we think hard enough. Though as for that they made a pretty cogent case for why Bonnie favored Forky to the exclusion of other toys. Seemed logical to me, anyway.
Woody going away at the end was indeed a complete violation of everything he had stood for throughout the TS saga. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around what it means and I'll probably need to see the film a couple more times before I feel certain about the real statement of the film. No it's not that Woody had to go away because cowboys are symbols of masculinity any more than Bo Peep had to go because she was a symbol of femininity.
They went because their kid didn't need them anymore at the time and they decided -- in some apparent twist of morality or reimagining of selfishness -- that they didn't owe anything to their kid anymore. I don't quite get it. I think the message has to do with pursuit of individual happiness, but in the context of TS it is really diametrically opposed to what had been presented as sacrosanct: to be in the service of a kid. Maybe TS5 will come along and reaffirm that someday?
I also think it's understandable that some toys were emphasized and some were deemphasized. Some old toys as you say were barely used or didn't speak, and some new toys were emphasized. But that has been consistent in each sequel to introduce and spotlight new characters central to the plot. Also if you think this is a new phenomenon for a Pixar/Disney film to convey some feeling of loss, you haven't been paying attention. From Old Yeller on down, Disney has been doing this, and several Pixar films have left audiences sobbing quietly.
I do, and that's the only reason I've seen any Toy Story movie at all (all within past 5 years).
I remember now why I never liked Disney. For years I refused to watch any of their stuff, just out of spite (I was forced into Lady and Tramp and Bambi when I was very very young, but avoided anything that slithered out of the Disney Vault once I reached the age of reason). I've only recently got caught up with things due to watching them with my daughter. Maybe this sort of thing isn't my bag in the first place.
I found an article that agrees with my admittedly warped stance on the matter:
Bonnie is the true villain of Toy Story 4
Ok sorry to have guessed wrong, but haven't you noticed your kid favoring toys you wouldn't have expected or going through phases where habits fall by the wayside?
Disney always has a creepy, sad and/or scary villain element. Even in Winnie the Pooh. I think it's unnecessary but maybe kids would get bored without it? Right now my kid doesn't get scared by anything except sharks and aliens.
I understand these things happen in real life, but in the case of this movie franchise
Andy asked Bonnie to specifically care for Woody. He explained how important he was. He wasn't even going to give Woody to her, but changed his mind when he saw she wanted him. Now poor Woody is living at some filthy carnival with a bunch of vile meth head carnies. He's got no voice, no kid, no home, and rides around in a skunk. Might as well be on skid row. Sad. Stinky Pete was right, should have taken that life in the toy museum.
Bonnie is four! It's hilarious that you expect a 4-year-old to maintain a perfectly logical pattern of behavior and to adhere to promises!
She's a cartoon written by adults. Andy trusted her. I did too. She and the filmmakers sold poor Woody down the river.
Would it help if I started a GoFundMe page to cover all the therapy you'll need to get over this trauma?
Bonnie wasn't mistreating Woody in any way--she just had her favorites--and Andy was surprised to see Woody in the box he was giving to Bonnie. That set up the tear-jerker ending of TS3--Andy was saying goodbye to childhood, not just the toys. I think the beginning of TS4 showed Bonnie playing with Woody and all the others. You're attaching too much negativism to Bonnie's changes as she started kindergarten. It was just a tough transition for her.
I do agree that Woody choosing to go off with Bo was a major twist not just in TS4 but in the entire saga. He gave up his superficial voice to help another toy find its kid, but he stayed true to his inner voice to guide him, which makes the ending even more perplexing to me. As I said, I still don't know quite what to make of it.
Just saw it for the first time last night, as we've been on vacation and have a backlog of stuff to see. Holy cow Pixar nails it with this series, over and over again. I had some minor quibbles with the plot and some character development, but everything else is so spot-on they don't really matter.
I think Woody realized that Bonnie was, more or less, done playing with him. He was Andy's favorite toy, not Bonnie's. He could either be sold off at a garage sale or decide himself to go off on his own. Since it seems like he's at his best when he's helping out other toys, that's what he decided to do. This plays in to his breakdown, where he says he's going out of his way to help Forky because that's all he has left, as he isn't being played with anymore.
I'm going to see this tomorrow night!
Major disagreement with your assessment.
Woody had been preaching throughout all the previous movies that it doesn't matter whether you're a kid's favorite--your job is to be there for the kid and do the best you can for the kid, and not think about yourself or your own needs. He had preached this to all the toys that were not Andy's favorite, and so it shouldn't matter that he was not Bonnie's favorite. Unless you think the real message of this film is that it's ok to be hypocrite as long as you're thinking of yourself. Because that appears to be what Woody did in the end."
And what would Woody be doing if he stayed with Andy, who's now like 20 years old?
The answer prior to TS4 is: whatever Andy would have chosen for Woody. The answer based on the TS4 conclusion is: whatever the hell Woody felt like doing.
A toy's usefulness is no longer than a couple of years, in all reality. Yeah, Woody had been a hand-me-down toy, but that doesn't mean Andy necessarily had to do the same when he outgrew him. Most toys are thrown out, lost, donated, forgotten about. The fact that Woody was Andy's childhood favorite toy does not mean he was exempt from meeting the same sort of fate when he was no longer of any use to Andy.
Giving Woody to Bonnie meant he had a chance of being played with (which he was, at at the end of TS3). Had Andy not given him away, Woody would likely have ended up in a box somewhere in the attic, or left behind to be thrown out at Andy's mom's house once he graduated college. So, whatever Andy wanted...I don't think a grown up Andy would care enough to even think about Woody's eventual fate. 18 year old Andy still cared to try to find a home for him.
First of all, it's debatable that Woody was Andy's favorite toy. At least during TS1 and possibly after (we don't have as much insight) Buzz became Andy's favorite toy. More importantly, the entire gestalt of the TS franchise was to rather ingeniously cast the thoughts and feelings of toys as the voice of the parents. They were trying to be there for the kid, look after the kid, respect the kid's wishes, put their ego out of the equation and generally do the right thing for the kid. The fears they had that the kid, after growing up, would no longer need them or care about them reflect those kinds of fears in parents. Because of and in spite of this, the toys were cast as a type of selfless guardians more than actual toys. That's the entire reason the films worked for adults as much as kids. Once you have a kid, you hopefully realize that your life, needs, wants, etc. are not as important as your kids'. That is supposed to be the message of the TS1-3: even Andy giving the toys to Bonnie was supposed to signify tacit recognition of this at the onset of adulthood. That's why it was such a tear-jerker when Andy had trouble letting go of Woody but knew he had to.
The concept that the toy's raison d'etre is to be played with or appreciated is antithetic to the saga. Each film showed how the toys are supposed to exist for the child. If the child wants to play with them--great. If the child wants to put them in storage--great. But until the finale of TS4, at no time was the toy's interests--whether to be played with or whatever--to be considered as a reason to leave a kid.
Good ending to a great series. First still the best though....
Going to see this tonight!
But is it really the end? Really?
I doubt it.
Toy Story 5: Woody and Bo are reunited with their friends and Bonnie (or another child).
Separate names with a comma.