tracking weight

I just bought a Stanton turntable (STR8-30B) and am mucking about with the tracking weight.

Everything I read seems to favor a tracking weight of 1.5 - 1.7. My record collector friends set their machines at .05 but they say it's to protect the vinyl.

Me, I go the other way. To me it sounds better a little heavier. Even 2G. Sounds a little richer. Maybe I am crazy.

What's everyone's advice???

-s

 

.05 grams is probably doing more harm than good

What range does your cartridge recommend? Don't exceed the range that range! It could cause damage to both your records and the cartridge!

What cartridge do you have?

 

I suggest you read this, if the arm on your 'table is anything like the one on the picture (short and straight- no ***** jokes please ).

It's called a straight underhung tonearm, and it might not be the best for your LPs (I believe it's it's not possible to achieve proper two-point geometry with those arms- that means more tracking distortion and premature record wear).

They only became popular with DJs (so I've read, anyway) because of their higher resistance to skips when scratching.

 

The only way to tell for sure is to play a test record with sound samples recorded at increasing levels. Shure has give away such records with its V15 series in the past. The latest V15 series, when mounted in a decent low mass arm, with anti-skate properly set, can track almost all records at .5 grams. But to accommodate the rare record with a truly hot grove, 1.0 grams is the way to go since too little stylus pressure causes wear on the grove. Each cartridge/arm combination has its own ideal setting. If you find that "excessive" pressure sounds different you likely have an arm/stylus resonance issue.

Richard.

 

What type of cartridge are you using? You cannot determine the proper tracking weight without knowledge of the cartridge. I think the general notion that lighter is better is very misleading. I'd love to see a cartridge do any type of tracking at .5 grams! I guess if your record collection is perfectly flat, then you'll be good at .5g, but if you have any type of warp, you can't track. In regards to lighter equals better, I think we should consider the $2000 to $5000 cartridges that track at 1.8 to 2.2. The vast majority of cartridges track at that range and my experience is that many of them sound better on the 2.2 side.

 

well it's funny you say that because really 2.2 was where it really sounded the best to me (although I was a little embarassed to say it)! But to answer your question, it's just a basic 500B cheap-o cartridge. Not too bad - a lot better than what I had before. I think it's really only supposed to go 1.5-2, and right now I have it at 1.75, but to me it sounded best at 2.2 because, for example, the piano notes sounded richer. My friend who is an engineer said maybe I was responding to something artificial like the sound wasn't really the recorded sound of the piano notes I liked but the needle, the pre-amp, the tubes, etc.

When I set it light (like the .5 you mentioned) it DOES track but it sounds like a little distortion creeps in at some frequencies. Generally the sound at a light setting would be pretty good except for that, just like an fm radio distortion where it creeps in for a second at some frequencies.

okay then thanks a lot all of you for your advice. I guess it's up to my ears, etc. I'm not THAT concerned about protecting the records because I don't listen to the same record over and over again, but of course I don't want to thrash them either. And I don't want to wreck the cartridge itself, because they are not free.

Mostly I care about the best sound. My records have already been subjected to everything under the sun! (literally and figuratively)

 

Seriously, unless you're planning to use the table for DJ scratch work, the best option would be to return it and get something with a normal offset tonearm. Even if damaging the records isn't an issue, you'll get much less distortion with an offset arm, and you'll have the option of using an elliptical stylus which should never be used with the non-offset pivoted arm. The link in Damián's post pretty much lays it all out!

 

Stanton does make an ST-100 and an ST-150 that do have an S-shaped tonearm and if you play 78s, they do allow the 78rpm playback. It is interesting that although the Stanton STR8 turntables have 78rpm speed, that link doesn't recommend using them for hi-fi purposes. Before the 1940s, the straight non-offset tonearm which is used today in DJ scratching, was the standard.

 

From the Stanton site in regards to the Stanton STR8-30B and similar turntables: The Stanton STR8 series of turntables are designed specifically for the scratching DJ. Due to the special straight line tone arm, they do not have an antiskate control setting. They do not have a tone arm height adjustment. You do not have to make any settings for antiskate or tone arm height.

Manufacturer recommended settings for optimum performance with Stanton Cartridges:

500 series:
500 AL, 500 AL II, 500 AL MKII, 505SK, 520 SK

"2" if using extra weight
2 to 5 grams stylus pressure setting.

600 series:
605 SK, 680 EL II, 680 HP

"5" if using extra weight
2 to 5 grams stylus pressure setting.

Groovemaster series:
Groovemaster AL, Groovemaster II RM, Groovemaster II RM Ltd.

2 to 5 grams on the stylus pressure adjustment



Trackmaster series:
Trackmaster AL, Trackmaster II AL, Trackmaster II SK, Trackmaster II RS, iTrack

4 to 5 grams on the stylus pressure adjustment

 

Okay I think you guys have a point. 1 gram sounds much better except for the distortion. I went back to the store and they told me I could trade the Stanton for a Numark with an S-shaped arm, cartridge, direct drive, etc. PLUS I get to adjust the anti-skating on the Numark. So tomorrow I'm swapping.

Not too bad, really (although I liked the dust cover on the Stanton but you can't have everything.)

Hopefully no more distortion. We'll see.

-s

 

Steve, Sorry to be so critical, but what did you pay for this thing. There are very good belt drive TT's out there both new and used, with good arms and good MM cartridges for a couple of hundred bucks. Please consider one of these.

 

These are all DJ tables, you will not get good hifi reproduction from any of them! They simply were not designed for that. You should get one of these http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.351/it.A/id.863/.f a Music Hall MMF-2.1. It is a new, budget turntable that will really sound good.

 

Of course I would rather have the $314 turntable than the $160 turntable but there is the matter of the additional cost. If I can get rid of the distortion, I'm happy! If not, maybe I would consider spending the extra $150, because I do like good sound.

But I have another friend with the Numark and it sounds pretty spectacular over at his house. Mind, he has solid state while I am using tubes. But other than that, we'll just see.

Maybe I can't tell the difference! Who knows? I know that with the Stanton when I would play something mastered lower, such as the Elliott Carter Double Concerto, and put it at 1 gram and crank it up, it sounded pretty much better than any CD or SACD or DVD-A I've ever heard. But if I put on a Glenn Gould recording or a modern opera recording or some kinds of 80s or late 70s pop recordings, I would get the distortion on the loud notes and on some vocals that were mixed hot. Now, for old time London opera recordings, they sounded perfect.

If I set the tracking heavier, no distortion but not anywhere near as much detail either. We'll just see. I'm excited to hear it anyway, and if it doesn't sound good then I will think about whether I want to get something else. As of now, I am very happy with the direct drive, based on my experience with belt drives (i.e. they change the pitch as they get older and you have to readjust the pitch).

This is the bottom line: IT'S ALL WAY BETTER THAN WHAT I HAD BEFORE AND I'M LISTENING TO LIKE 4 HOURS OF VINYL A DAY!!!!!

 

Steve, If you are really listenning to vinyl 4 hours a day you deserve the $314 TT. Save until you can buy it, do not waste your money on the $160.

 

I agree! You will end up saving money in the long run, because you will have the Music Hall for a while. If you simply want to listen to vinyl and be happy, you will probably never outgrow the Music Hall. It is a fantastic entry level audiophile table!

 

My turntable is a Gemini XL-200 (another DJ turntable) and I use a Stanton 680 EL II (elliptical FM broadcast quality cartridge) and for my needs and the kind of equipment I have, it is just fine. I did improve my speakers overtime and they end up sounding great with the equipment I have which is by no means "audiophile" quality but it's as close to "audiophile" as I can afford in my budget. After all, an audiophile is what you make it out to be, IMO.

 

It's important to note (in case anyone else doesn't understand exactly what is meant as a "straight underhung tonearm") that it clarifies on the web page link: "We're discussing Scratch DJ straight pivoted underhung tonearms, not linear tracking straight tonearms nor straight tonearms with proper overhang and the offset angle in the headshell." I was concerned about my turntable at first until I read that line. Mine has the proper overhang and offset angle in the headshell so I guess I'm ok.

 

Well I agree with you guys about one thing: The Numark SUXXXXXX!!!!!! I'm definitely taking it back. It actually hurts my ears - it sounds like a CD player! I don't think it even runs that steady.

As for the Music Hall turntable you guys are recommending, they have one at a store nearby and I could get it for close to the $314, but I have one big concern. I went and looked at it and it seems like you cannot tune it!

What do you do if you have to transcribe something from a record that wasn't recorded at A440? And what if the motor isn't running true anymore. Do you have to throw it out and get another?

Except for the tuning thing, I think I would buy that turntable right now, because it's really beautiful. But I don't see how you can live with a turntable that cannot be tuned. Or am I missing something and the guy at the store just doesn't know how to tune it!?

Is there any compromise you would recommend?? You guys are having a bigger influence on my life right now than you would probably imagine, so I'm open to all suggestions.

-s

 

You can not adjust the speed on the Music Hall. I have am very close to having perfect pitch, and I have only one or two records that have speed issues. I dont really know of any audiophile tables that have adjustable speed. The motor in the Music Hall runs at only one speed. You need to move the belt to change the speed from 33 to 45. The motor is very solid, and I dont think it will vary too much over time.

 

Why would you have to "tune it"? You must be very sensitive to accurate pitch. Many owners love their Regas and they sometimes run a little fast.

The most important thing for most listeners is that the speed does not vary (the better the turntable, the tighter the tolerance on speed variation).

 

The Music Hall has a very steady motor. You should not have any problems with it. Once the cartridge breaks in, you will be enjoying the wonderful sound of analog!!

 

Aye Joe the records tend to run at the same speed but you cannot say the same thing for the musicians on them. For instance I am right now transcribing some Velvet Underground stuff and I guess they used to tune to the hums from their amps because there are songs in between F and F# and in between C and C#. I'm sure the records were mastered at the right speed but the music itself isn't that way. It's not so much a problem with my classical records, but with vintage rock it's a big difference.

Classic case: "Waterloo Sunset" by the Kinks. Somewhere around E flat, but not really. Probably they recorded it in E and slowed down the tape for the vocals and then left it slowed down? I imagine I don't have as perfect pitch as you, because I have to move the turntable so that the musicians are put at the real pitch before I can transcribe without going CRAZY. I don't have the facility to go "oh that's supposed to be an A"!!! And these are real world concerns for me as I am currently actually transcribing Velvets songs....

Well if it's really the only way to go I guess I could always put them on the computer and shift the pitch to the real pitch or something.

Thanks for all your time discussing this, by the way.

-s

 

The reason why my DJ turntable sounds great with my system is that my system is solid state like 99% of systems of any kind made today are and that it is a "budget" priced home theater system.

 

You are not a tube guy, I take it??

My movement to tubes increaced the fidelity of my system so much, it was incredible. I shal never listen to solid state again!