Triangle ART Audio Turntable, the "Concerto", great sound for under 4k..

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve Hoffman, Jul 12, 2015.

  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host Thread Starter

    Tom Vu, designer and owner of Triangle ART, dropped over today, he brought the CONCERTO and his Zeus MC cartridge for me to play with, starting me at the "bottom" of the Triangle ART line, soon to let me sample as high up as I care to go..

    First, let me say that his turntables are built in LA and they can be any color you want, they don't have to be chrome bling looking tables.

    This CONCERTO, their entry level product is nice, it's not big, it's actually quite beautiful with a giant Class A power supply (not pictured), and uses the same materials, the same bearing and motor as it’s bigger brothers. It has a Jelco tonearm and will take any old cart you wish to throw at it.

    $3,900.00.

    http://triangleart.net/concerto1/

    First thing I noticed today when listening to the CONCERTO for the first time (it's a new unit right out of the box) is how SMOOTH the midrange is. It's realistic without being bombastic, a sonic characteristic of all Triangle ART turntables (I've heard them at various audio shows over the years). So this non-fatiguing sound means that listening for hours will not be a problem. When used with my Audio Note playback system, it's very good.

    I'm going to let the table break in for a while and I will report back!

    t3.jpg t2.jpg

    As you can tell by the second pic, Tom Vu (on the far left) will build you a table up to the sky if you wish it. I like the more subdued look, personally.
     
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  2. Paul Chang

    Paul Chang Forum Old Boy, Former Senior Member Has-Been

    I am always puzzled by plinthless turntables. How do you keep the tonearm base at the fixed position? Or is something missing in the picture?
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host Thread Starter

    It's heavy, it has rubber thingies on the bottom. It stays in place nicely.
     
  4. How you do place it the very first time when setting it up?
    I assume they have some sort of jig to aid in getting the tonearm base in the right place.
     
    Steve Hoffman likes this.
  5. Paul Chang

    Paul Chang Forum Old Boy, Former Senior Member Has-Been

    I am always puzzled by plinthless turntables. How do you set up the tonearm and keep it at the fixed position?
    But my hands are heavy, too. ;)
     
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  6. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I have set-up quite a few turntables, and a "plinthless" type, where the tonearm tower is a separate unit than the platter assembly, is the easiest type to set-up. With any single-point alignment device (such as Dennesen, Mo-Fi, etc) you can position the cartridge anywhere on the tonearm, then (1) move the tonearm tower to wherever the stylus will correctly index to the alignment device's magic spot. Then (2) rotate the cartridge body to match the alignment graph on the alignment device. It is just that simple.

    If your tonearm is not uni-pivot, namely has a dedicated bearing for vertical motion, and if you REALLY want to be detailed about it, then there is a more purist technical approach. This will make sure the stylus angle is exactly perpedicular to the tonearm's vertical-motion bearing angle. The result of this extra work is that perfect alignment will not change with VTA. In this case, you must (1) measure or refer to the tonearm's offset angle, (1) measure or refer to it's pivot-to-stylus distance, (3) find an equation or automatic tonearm-alignment-calculator (on the internet) to determine the optimum spindle-to-pivot distance, -- steps 1, 2 and 3 can be bypassed if the tonearm manufacturer specifies a spindle-to-pivot distance -- , (4) set that distance with a ruler, then (5) perform the stylus positioning just the way you would any other turntable/tonearm. In the end, you will still have to (6) move the tonearm tower a bit to index to the device's magic spot, and (7) rotate the cartridge a bit to align with the alignment device.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
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  7. detroit muscle

    detroit muscle Forum Resident

    Whoa, slow down with all the technical jargon. :winkgrin:
     
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  8. Dan Steely

    Dan Steely Never Gonna Do It Without The Fez On

    You tell me there are men in this picture :p
     
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  9. action pact

    action pact Forum Resident

    Dudes into hifi always attract babes.
     
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  10. indy mike

    indy mike Forum Pest

    :laughup: :biglaugh:
     
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  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your Host Your Host Thread Starter

    Girls love records and record players. Everyone knows that. Voluptuous Vinyl New Releases.png
     
  12. new world man

    new world man Member

    Location:
    UK
    She's got a good pair of discs on her....



    ...yeah, gratuitous but, anyway, heh...
     
  13. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    My azimuth alignment suggests that may indeed be a woman.
     
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  14. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Beautiful table but the audio neurotic in me would want a fixture for the tonearm tower and the motor tower. Just a thin piece, something cool looking like the Rega RP6 design.
     
  15. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Not practical, because the distance from tonearm pivot to platter spindle is variable. It depends on what arm you use. Actually, this is a great advantage of separate tonearm tower and platter assembly: any tonearm of any length and "mounting distance" can be used.

    Simply a distance spec for the tonearm and a ruler is perfect to set the tonearm tower at the right position. "KISS", (Keep It Simple Stuart)

    And, you can add more tonearm towers if you want to add more arms, placing them around the platter assembly at any angle. Only the distance matters, not the direction.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
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  16. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Interestingly (to me anyway), the distance from motor pully to platter assembly is critical, to control the belt/platter resonance frequency. It should be significantly lower than the cartridge/tonearm resonance frequency. But the specific distance is dependant upon the "compliance" of the belt material, platter mass, and length of the belt.

    So with a turntable that has separate motor and platter assemblies, any number of belt types can be used, and any length of belt can be used. Small changes in belt tension will change the platter resonance frequency. As a belt stretches and/or hardens with age, the motor-to-platter distance SHOULD be adjusted, but very few turntables have this capability.

    At an audio show, I am told, one exhibitor placed their Micro Seiki turnable on one speaker, and the motor on the other speaker with a VERY long belt in-between.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  17. blakep

    blakep Forum Resident

    I'm in full agreement with you. While I can see Warren's point on the ability and versatility to use different tonearms having various P to S distances, the idea of having to perform alignments every time you jar the table or the arm pod (sorry but it does happen-just happened to me today while I was re-installing the dust cover on my Gyro) puts me off a design like this completely. I also drink while I listen to vinyl; that being said I've never lunched a cartridge/stylus ;).

    I also don't trust the ruler analogy as far as absolute P to S setup and accuracy. That, in turn, will restrict you to the use of a two point protractor, which I find to be a bit of a pain in the A$$ compared to a top of the line arc protractor like the Mint which, admittedly, does limit you to one arm or at least arms with the same P to S.

    On a side note, the Jelco 750D is a very good arm, especially for the price, but the OEM collar/mounting base is sloppy and presents problems with precise azimuth for anyone using a cartridge with a semi-exotic stylus profile (line contact, mircoridge, etc.) .

    I've owned the arm for about 6-7 years and recently picked up the after market collar from Ammonite Acoustics (Ammonite and TTW both sell a more precisely machined collar which eliminates the "slop" in the Jelco collar) and would highly recommend it or the TTW, especially on a turntable of this calibre or for anyone using the Jelco with a higher end cartridge with a line contact or microridge type stylus.
     
  18. blakep

    blakep Forum Resident

    I've never done an audio show before (or even played an audio show guy on TV ;)) but that seems like a very stupid idea to me.
     
  19. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I suppose somebody might jar their turntable every once-in-a-while. And, I suppose people break their cartridge's stylus, too. Personally, the idea of having to buy a new cartridge every time you mishandle it puts me off to getting too drunk to drive while playing records -- well, too drunk to drive probably is OK for playing records, but 2 or 3 times that level is definitely harmful to more than just your tonearm alignment. This, seems to me, is a condition that warrents switching over to digital.

    But my ruler comment was not an "analogy", it was a correct step in an accurate procedure. Once you have used a ruler to approximately set the spindle-to-arm distance (it does not have to be perfect), you can align the cartridge with ANY alignment device (one-point, two-point or arc) just like you would any other turntable/tonearm combination.

    Of course it was a stupid idea for any other reason than to show something dramatic. I suppose it demonstrated the turntable suspension's ability to eliminate vibrations from transmitting table-top to platter. But actually it was just a memorable, strange thing to see.

    I mentioned it only because the motor can be placed any distance from the platter, as long as the belt tension is adjusted to a range in which platter resonance is correct. Again, as a belt ages, there is an advantage to be able to easily adjust belt tension.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  20. blakep

    blakep Forum Resident

    Fully understood. But if the purpose of showing the equipment is to show it sounding it's best it's totally wacky. Needlessly feeding that kind of vibration into the main bearing/arm bearings/cartridge etc. regardless of how good the table's suspension is, is very likely to seriously compromise sound quality.

    The sound would be similarly compromised (maybe more so) by feeding vibration directly into the drive system and the belt, regardless of how long it is and how far it can be placed from the platter.

    Wacky, but I guess it made a point. Just not one that I'd be that interested in as opposed to hearing the equipment perform more to its potential.
     
  21. blakep

    blakep Forum Resident

    Not really with an arc protractor. Approximate will get you just that, an approximate alignment. It would be very approximate. Margin for error is going to be huge with an arc protractor if the P to S is off even minimally.

    I would not be inclined to use an arc protractor with such a setup unless you were extremely sure of exact P to S. You need very precise P to S with an arc protractor.
     
  22. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    And what makes you think the tonearm hole in any of our turntables' plinths is drilled at any more of an accurate position?

    The motion of our tonearm mounting boards, as we install the screws before tightening them down, usually is greater than 1/32 on an inch, which is easily readable on a standard ruler. But how many people (even professionals) measure that distance accurately before tightening down the mounting board? And what device would you use to make this measurement besides a ruler? If you want to use calipers, you certainly could in either set-up, plinth or plinthless.

    I think this turns out to be an argument against arc protractors, because with a one-point or two-point alignment device, the cartridge can be adjusted to correct alignment independant of how accurate the tonearm is positioned.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  23. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    I suggest that if you can, you measure P to S, and use a very exact metal ruler made for critical measurement. That way you can make an arc protractor and know it is right.
     
  24. blakep

    blakep Forum Resident

    I have no guarantee of course but Michell Engineering drilled my armboard based on the specs provided and they have a pretty good reputation for precision work. And the Mint, as most who have any experience with it would attest to, is very precise.

    So I think I'm in pretty good shape.
     
  25. Michael Ries

    Michael Ries Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    Oh boy. The aesthetics of this table and that photo from the showroom have all the class and subtlety of Trump Tower.
     
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