Triangle Magellan Cello - road to audio Valhalla

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SME12A, Jul 28, 2021.

  1. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    the most important thing is to be satisfied with outcome! If you LOVE your system - game is O V E R !
     
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  2. LostArk

    LostArk Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Accuphase just isn't worth the $ in the US. Real shame, they have some incredible pieces. I was in the market for an E-800, but in the US it's MORE than DOUBLE the street price in Japan. I might be able to swallow 40% markup for foreign markets, but sweet jeez have mercy. Real shame, I'd love to pick up some exotic separates; DG-68, T-1200, etc :love:
     
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  3. Although my preamp didn’t cost 18k it came with inexpensive remote. The choice was given to upgrade to a more substantial one but I figured it made more sense to buy some extra inexpensive plastic ones and have a couple of back ups in case of drop damages or losses. Works really well for me.
     
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  4. LostArk

    LostArk Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    I bought a $30 IR decoder on Amazon and wrote down the hex and data codes for all my remote's functions so I can program a replacement Arduino in the future if I have to. To my befuddlement, some functions on my L-509X are only accessible by remote, so I wanted to make sure I didn't get locked out of those if the remote fails. I've had close calls with remotes in the past, never again!
     
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  5. Makes real sense.
     
  6. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    509X is spectacular - I owed it before the move to Simaudio separates. I miss loudness and tone control (there I said it - don't call me a purist) Recently I was actually looking at 900 series separates...
    You are right, before the virus crisis - I used to travel to Japan from work periodically and I remember seeing new Accuphase E650 at exact same price as 509x. Here, E650 is like $19k hahahahaha - joke!
    Good news is, almost everybody serious about Accuphase knows that.....I work for Japanese owned company and we have many engineers coming for a year long internship quite often - Accuphase Japan would change the voltage settings for anybody who travels to US for business (long stay). I already had one guy inquired.
    At some point I might pull a plug for the E480 integrated....I admire their craftsmanship and would love to own their gear...
     
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  7. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Sorry but you will not sell me on that - hahahahaha. Cheap is cheap and fully understood when supplied with lower in price models. INEXCUSABLE in high end in my opinion! Thats why so many cannot understand why Lexus charges much more for their models than Toyota....as I said before - I am all for experience - look, sound, feel, smell hahahahaha!
     
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  8. jonwoody

    jonwoody Tragically Unhip

    Location:
    Washington DC
    I posted this on another forum it shows just how crazy US Accuphase pricing is with an even better comparator Canada:

    "The C-2850, which replaced the C-2820, sells for $24,999 in Canada, but I must also mention the US-dollar price because that’s what we typically quote in our reviews: $34,500. In the US, Accuphase has a different distributor, and if you know about Canada–United States currency values, that’s a huge price discrepancy. According to the exchange rate around mid-June 2021, $34,500 USD converted to $41,932 CDN, while $24,999 CDN converted to just $20,568 USD! To me, that’s too big a price discrepancy for two countries situated next to each other and where people travel pretty freely back and forth (at least pre-COVID). But for the moment, I’m going to set the price issue aside—though I can’t help wondering if having too high a price has been a problem getting the brand established in North America."

    That is just crazy so if you live in the US and want Accuphase your best bet, buy it in Canada!

    SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - Accuphase C-2850 Preamplifier
     
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  9. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    hahahaha - quite tempting!!! I have family in Quebec :) Thanks for that info - I will check pricing for E480 in Cananda - local dealer here in US offered me 30% off without me even asking :) still - these prices are ridiculous.
     
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  10. Then again I’ve had more than one remote in the past so heavy that if I dropped on my foot……hospital time. :D
     
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  11. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    hahahaha!!! I am not saying elephant remotes - gryphon, Luxman, and Accuphase all have phenomenal remotes! Mark Levinson, DanD'agostino, Dartzeel (except LHC208) also kick ass in that department. I just cannot stand cheap junk from Primaluna, Line Magnetic, and most other companies :) You shake it, all buttons rattle. Best Chinese remote, IMHO is supplied with Hegel H190,390,590...simple yet solid!
     
  12. Tony C.

    Tony C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    @SME12A

    Did you happen to audition the Duetto at any point? I am curious about how they may stack up against the smaller Harbeths.

    Cheers
     
  13. Mr.Sign

    Mr.Sign Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Helo Tony C, !

    I auditioned both speakers. Totally different characters, both very good but completly on the opposite side of each other in terms of voicing.
     
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  14. Tony C.

    Tony C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    Thank you! How would you characterize the Duetto? Would they be any less "organic" in the mid-range for which the Harbeth are typically lauded? I assume that the Duetto are superior in terms of bass response, but I wonder what I would be giving up in other areas.
     
  15. The supplied remote with my ModWright preamp is compact, extremely light and very responsive.

    They offer an “upgrade” heavy remote but I find the one supplied sufficient. The price on the standard remote is so low I ordered a couple of extras in case of loss or damage. And happily no rattling buttons.
     
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  16. Mr.Sign

    Mr.Sign Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Their different voicings are even visible in the frequenzy response graph. The harbeths have a declining response ( so called british tuning) whereas the Duetto has an accentuated high range. The Duettos have a more forward direct sound ( maybe a professional Monitor sound ). The harbeth in comparison show a more distant view on the soundstage with a less tight but richer bass sound.
    Cymbals for example seemed to have more flesh and body on the Duettos which I found very appealing. The Duettos react pretty strong on the way they are feeded. I compared quite a lot amps on them and the differences were remarkable.

    So it is absolutley necessary to listen before buying.
    I think You like them or not at all, there seems no in between.

    Hope that helps a little bit

    Good luck !
     
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  17. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    I spent significant portion of my weekend on shopping for records and listening. After the visit to my local record store, I came back with some true (in my book) jewels:

    1. “Thriller” by Michael Jackson. First pressing sealed!
    2. “Men and Women” and “Picture Book” by Simply Red. Both sealed – original Electra pressings.
    3. “Pyramid” by The Alan Parsons Project – sealed, original early pressing.
    4. “Kiwanuka” by Michael Kiwanuka. Sealed, colored vinyl – limited edition.
    5. “I am Breathless” by Madonna – Dick Tracy soundtrack. Sealed original 1990 pressing.
    Thriller and Pyramid are simply breathtaking – I will not discuss the obvious, which is music, but rather focus on sound and recording engineering. Expansive dynamic range of both albums test Cello’s capacity in air moving department. MJ’s work is extremely resolving with tons of acute details that are simply missed on digital – remastered releases. When I compared my first pressing of “Thriller” to the 2005 – remastered CD, differences were obvious – Record punches tighter, faster, much more “dynamic”, and has obvious organic quality. Digital equivalent, on the other hand, has lower low end with perhaps artificially widened soundstage. Still - the difference between the “analog” and “digital” Thriller, is not a night and day like in case of “Pyramid” where CD sounds much less to my liking. That LP has beautifully organic and romantic qualities expected from fully analog – well engineered, recording.

    Both Simply Red albums are beautifully flat and noiseless butsound rather thin, forward, and over processed at times. I am very happy to acquire both albums as I really enjoy Simply Red discography that is quite rare on vinyl these days (Honestly, I did not have high “sonic” expectations picking them up – it’s a 80’s pop with no aspirations to become audiophile material. His CDs are all terribly thin and sound best in my car J)

    Madonna’s album sounded beautifully open, forward but without a hint of hardness with immense dynamics. The area where LP usually shine, in my honest opinion, are the resolution and the space between each notes – how they are thrown into air by a tweeter.

    Kiwanuka’s work, while musically dive, sounded terrible! I would advise you to stay away from that pressing if you are only care for demo-like sound. Digitally recorded, processed and distorted. Dynamic contrasts on this release are simply none existent – everything is recorded saturated - high in levels, overdriving my pre amp and distorting drastically. I have an L-R UV meter on my phono stage so I can easily monitor levels the record is press at. As a result – this album sound dark and uninviting.

    “Pyramid” is a true demo material – powerful contrasts, great specious instrument work, and glamorous midrange. Goose bump experience period!

    What was interesting to hear how Cello differentiate all contrasts between different recordings while painting involving spectacles. With Harbeth 40s and all Dynaudio models I have tried, and DeVore 0/96, all presentations were similar – dark, recessed, thick, uninvolving, and distant. Triangle invites you to the show and forces you to have “eyes” wide open – there is not a hint of boredom in the way Magellan sounds. It is not a speaker you can fall asleep with. Some might think that French towers sound analytical but, let me tell you, they are as far from analytical as one can get (no, they are not Dynaudio or Harbeth school of sound for sure)

    Based on my findings and experience, not too many speakers out there can be called resolving without sounding forward, harsh, and fatiguing. Analytical school of sound is an Achilles’ Foot of most modern designs – they have to impress listener rather quickly when one demos them at dealer.

    I probably spent good 80 hours with Triangles so far and I have to say that whatever potion French mixed and used here, it works its magic – Cello is extremely resolving without a hint of fatigue. I have never heard something like this in my room before. Perfect to my taste, balance of musicality, resolution, dynamics, and low end. Some saying perfect marriage does not exist – I am happily married for 21 years and now I found perfect fulfilment for my audio needs.

    Dynaudio Special 40 and DeVore Super 9 disappeared more successfully than Cellos, but this is domain of smaller speakers. Super 9s pulled Houdini act like no other floor standers I heard in my life – if you are a fun of 3D experience and want something larger than bookshelf – Super 9 is a speaker to own – play Roger’s “Amused to Death” and brace yourself for a ride of the lifetime!

    I am a sound staging and scale freak – I NEED to have vocalist perfect and solid in the center unless that was not the case during the recording session or was made that way intentionally. I cannot stand systems with imbalance in that department. I have heard, probably 20 - in a million dollar range, systems with major sound portraying issues (room problems) where I could not focus on a sound as a result.

    French towers set solid and natural stage for the spectacle where subtle changes in musician’s position are easily heard and accented. (No – they are not Dynaudio Special 40s but Cellos compensate for it with huge scale that gives impression of naturalness). Several Miles Davis records I have played so far, I could hear him cleaning his mouthpiece, taking a deep breath or turning head around – no other speaker in my room allowed that surgical precision and involvement. I think it is a resolving power of Magellan design together with powerful amplification that makes it happen.

    Happy Monday everybody!
     
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  18. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Tony, sorry but who makes Duetto? Is that a model or company name?
     
  19. Mr.Sign

    Mr.Sign Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    It is the smallest speaker of the Triangle Magellan series. A two way compact monitor , same tweeter as in the Cello.
     
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  20. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Thanks - I did not hear that one…
     
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  21. Tony C.

    Tony C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    Thank you.
     
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  22. Tony C.

    Tony C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    This ongoing review is both extraordinary, and enjoyable to follow. And while the speakers that are the focus of your review are too big for my space, you certainly have piqued my interest in the (smaller) Duettos. I have been happy with my Harbeths, but recognize that they do have some limitations, and it would be very interesting to compare them to the Duettos.

    Cheers,

    Tony
     
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  23. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA

    Tony,

    While little Harbeths are considerate to be extraordinary by many – I could not associate myself with that point of view. To me music is all about emotion, and little – micro woofers simply did cut it for me. I am after scale resolution and, as close to the life event as possible, experience.

    Little Harbeth were great for office space – beautifully made, little cuties that were always a good conversation start piece. The minute I turned my analyzing switch on, and started listening critically – little English beauties (while wining my brain) did not win my heart. They felt very relaxing – too chocolaty relaxing J I was Willy Wonka in his factory – life was cozy, sweet, and sassy. While this kind of presentation brings a piece of mind, I found it very boring in a long run.

    Do not get me wrong – I loved the way they are made and look – I might still get a pair one day and keep them in my office at work. (Driven by some sweet looking tube amp like Ars SonumFilarmonia)

    I am very curious how Duetto would perform – do me a favor, if you have a chance to audition them somewhere, let me know how they sound.
     
  24. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    There is certain analogy in my head about equipment pricing – first off, Speaker designed and priced 20 years ago with an unchanged price today is a fantastic proposition. $13k speaker from 2004 translates into something around $20k today due to inflation, price increases, distribution changes, etc. When I closely look at the quality of artisanship that is evident on Cellos, it is easy to conclude that these babies are made well above their “modern” asking price of $13.5k in US. (It is rather unexpected how, overnight, I have become Triangle’s fan boy)

    I am still under tremendous impression, how brilliant Allan Shaw business skills, persuade people that the 70% price increase is fully justifiable. $15k Harbeth 40.2 went in price to $25k on a US market – what a total bullock. Severely overpriced in the past, British boxes are even more expensive AND people still buy them! Honestly, this price playing and distribution mark-up make me uncomfortable. What direction does the high-end audio market go? Just like with expensive cars, watches, yachts, German photo equipment – it is a status symbol and reason to rant with friends.

    I have mentioned that because there are still jewels on the brand new market that are worth considering if you on the look for well-priced top designs. I think Revel Ultima Studio and Saloon are great example – priced 20 years ago and designed using best scientific methods available. Harman also spent tons of hours of fine-tuning the whole line by ear. I really liked Studios that I had a chance to audition at my place early this year. I would have kept it if not for major cosmetic issues – they are discontinued so it was impossible to get brand new pair. I also was not too sure about Harman not being fully transparent as to where the speakers are being made – it turned out to be a China.

    Call me meticulous but I also like to research equipment prices in the countries the brand has its roots in. I like getting the best bung for the back there is. The rule of thumb is the best prices are for the equipment made in the country of customer’s residence. US/Canadian gear is USUALLY best priced in US and overpriced in Asia and Europe. Japanese equipment has the lowest mark ups of all audio brands BUT that is in Japan only. Greedy distribution exploits that fact horribly giving wrong impression about the brand on the foreign markets.

    That touches another important topic that I talked about earlier in my posts – the popularity based on paid reviews. My conclusions based of 30 years in audio hobby, tell me that majority people do not buy audio gear based on how equipment sounds but rather what press/peers say about it.

    I discussed that aspect with all my audio friends that visited me and we all agree on that. Frankly, when I realized how good Triangle Magellan Cello felt in my space, I got a little flustered thinking about possibility of buying them – it was my ego vs. actual listening experience. I knew that sound-wise, this speaker is a true rarity at its US asking MSRP price and TOTALL game over for my space as far as the sound is concerned. The problem was rather materialistic and egocentric – why would I want to get speaker that nobody really knows in US, gets absolutely no reviews, praises from professional, and exposition on the forums. I will not be able to impress anybody by saying that I use $13k Triangles.

    Perhaps I need shiny Wilson in Ferrari red or Raidho C3.2 so whoever visits me takes me seriously and can say – wow, $38k speakers – they MUST sound good…

    What usually comes with scenario like this – the resell value is low. No “authoritarian” reviews and popularity make for rather narrow purchasing channel. So, even thou I love how my Cello sounds, I will not be able to secure decent amount on a used market if I decide to sell them one day. Some manufacturers like DeVore and Harbeth have a huge fan base and these users are willing to pay close to new MSRP for a used speaker. I learn from experience, this trend has absolutely nothing to do with how well these speaker sounds.

    Therefore, my choice was simple – should I be a snob and get something that will hold a price, everybody in the audio circle talk about and adore, or get an “unknown in US” design that is divinely made and sound spectacular (to my ears and in my space).

    If you follow my thread, you know by now that I chose the latest – I put all the hype aside and made, probably best choice in my “audio” life. Expensive does not translate into the quality and sound perception sometimes. After careful experimenting with positioning and fine tuning speakers to my room, I invited several of my friends including the dealer I got Cellos from. I asked all of my guests to bring their favorite album – whether analog or digital so we can give it a go

    Learned from my professional career, I trust face expression and body language more than spoken words - I was fully content because what I have witnessed, sealed the envelope of approval - they all enjoyed the system and the dealer – who has been good friend of my for several years – was truly surprised as to how good and synergetic the system sounds. There is a funny side story to it, I got really good price on Cellos because the dealer did not believe that Triangle will be a good seller - $13k market is filled with well-reviewed (= great selling) designs from US manufacturers. After hearing my system, he is considering to bring that model to his shop again.

    It is very difficult to leave the mind-boggling hype aside very often but I have learned to trust my gut feeling – If it sounds good at first, it’s a winner. No amount of voodoo will change it and price is, very often, not directly proportional to the sound fidelity.
     
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  25. Tony C.

    Tony C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    I will.

    I did previous own the (smallest) Harbeth P3ESR, but have been using the 30.1 for a couple of years now. They are a notable step up in bass response, but still nothing to get excited about in that realm. I do find their tone and timbre to be first-class, so vocals, jazz and other acoustical music, especially recorded in smaller settings, sound superb. But I don't only listen to that type of music. I grew up listening to '60s and '70s soul and funk, and it will always be in my blood, but the smaller Harbeths simply aren't designed to excel with that type of music.

    So, if, without spending a fortune, I am able to find a speaker that is not too big, and can provide really satisfying bass response, but without my having to sacrifice the superb mid-range of the Harbeth, I would be delighted.
     
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