Triangle Magellan Cello - road to audio Valhalla

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SME12A, Jul 28, 2021.

  1. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA

    I remember having beautiful 30.1s in Tiger Ebony on the Sound Anchor stands. They were BEAUTIFUL and supported all qualities of the P3s with much punchier lower end. Now I know NO speaker that has life cabinet, as a part of their tuning will ever work in my room. If you like Harbeth midrange but would prefer some more oomph – perhaps audition Dynaudio Contour 20 or Confidence 20. Close friend of my, who is a respectable reviewer in Poland, has Confidence 20 as his reference. He used to own Harbeths prior to the “upgrade”.

    If you like that Alan Shaw signature – the change to Triangle might be too radical. It’s like this nice quiet, well behave – conservative boy exposed to NY party, drug -filled underground…might be too extreme J

    It depends, which parts of the sound you care for/respect the most. NO small speaker will punch you in the chest like Tyson in its prime – small woofer membrane simply will not move enough air and for that you need monster towers with largewoofers. (Alternatively, active subwoofer).

    On the positive note – small speaker will beautifully blend into surroundings totally disappearing as if NO large speaker can ever come close to.

    I believe the success will depend on the proper compromise. Try to find a dealer that will let you try several models at home. I consider listening at dealer useless.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
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  2. jonwoody

    jonwoody Tragically Unhip

    Location:
    Washington DC
    I will quibble with this point, though there are a handful of obvious cases of greedy importers/distributors, Accuphase in the US being the obvious one, it's a pricey proposition to import market and sell high end audio gear. The market is vanishingly small and the costs whether it be transportation and shipping, employee salaries and benefits, marketing costs, importation duties etc are many. Also we are finally in this country starting to really talk about paying people a living wage, when you do that you should be prepared to pay more for companies doing the right thing.
     
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  3. Tony C.

    Tony C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    Well, it would likely depend on what music is being featured. I expect that I would probably prefer listening to vintage Tower of Power, or Herbie Hancock, etc., on the Triangle, but will reserve judgement.

    As for the other suggestions, thank you, but as the Duettos are less than half the price of the Confidence 20, it's another reason to hope that I like the former!
     
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  4. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA

    Many interesting points you have highlighted – I am at the top of quality and lean manufacturing at my daytime job and see certain trends. While change is unavoidable – it brings certain – hidden danger, People will start making more BUT the price increases will be exponentially unproportioned. I see that already happening – based on my assumption, the gap between middle class and the 1% will be greater than ever. I am not even mentioning the quality of customer service (close to be none existent these days)

    When McDonald starts to pay the minimum wage of $15 an hour – we will not see a dollar menu anymore! There will be $5 dollar menu with average meal set close to $20. There needs to be a market equilibrium - free ride does not exist anywhere anymore. Another fact that is even more interesting is that company will seek cheaper food resources that will inversely affect our health. Therefore, honestly, I am not so convinced that making more = higher standard of living.

    Anyway, coming back on a topic – the proper market research is more important now than EVER. My Cello carried its price since 2004 – when their new revision arrived in US. This speaker is $10k Euro in Europe so significantly less. All factors that you have mentioned are obvious hence, their higher price on US market. The $13.5k for Magellans that was set 17 years ago is close to $20k of today’s money. (Plus minus). Let’s just say the newest line of speakers (for example John Devore is about to release 2-3 new models), shows up on a market this week - The pricing strategy is set for today’s market – Do you really think, the $10k speaker is actually worth that much? I would say, you would be getting $5k worth of speaker “quality” with adjustments for today price hike.

    That is why I have mentioned Revel Ultima Studio – priced at $15k 25 years ago AND being discounted severely by several dealers – down to $7-8k if you lucky. That is a tremendous bargain if you still find them brand new…

    Once again – this is strictly my point of view, NOT an absolute by any standards.

    P.S. I am still waiting to see who is going to pay for all these “free” COVID vaccines….
     
  5. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    NEVER EVER pay dealer’s asking price! Hahahahhaha!!! Listen to all possibilities - if you like something a lot - get to the business talk :) check expensive speakers and look for cheaper ones - you might be amazed! Magic can happen - just like my Cello happened!
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
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  6. Tony C.

    Tony C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    I've developed a few systems over the past ~40 years, and rarely have I bought a component new from a dealer. My current DAC (a Denafrips Pontus II) is the only one I've purchased over the past ~15 years. So I typically benefit from very nice discounts.
     
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  7. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    I always shop smart and stay away from used… :) we all have different habits.
     
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  8. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Another update on the Magellan’s adventure. Yesterday, I have spent 5 hours playing phenomenal music material from EsbjornSvensson Trio. Their music is widely described as classical, rock, pop, with techno elements. I own all their discography (14 albums) on Redbook CDs with some Japanese imports. Their music stresses the equipment monumentally– artificially/computer generated low end will shake any house foundation if allowed. I started from “Viactum” which is rather on a mellow side, just to switch through” Seven Days of Falling”, “Leucocyte”, “301”, “From Gagarin’s Point of View”, and to finish with live “E.S.T. Live in Haburg”

    I have listened to Svensson’s work multiple times on a many different set-ups including audio shows, audio society get togethers, as well as dealer demos. To summarize on the beginning - What I hear coming from Cellos throws my jaw on the floor for the reminder of listening spectacle. Unheard of, in my space, before dynamic that puts uncontrolled smile on my face, startle detail of shimmering instruments evokes randomgoosebumps. 91dB A-weighted at my listening spot, punches my chest, inviting to solid and UNDISTORTED gig. These speakers give me adrenaline rush anytime I play them. It does not matter how tired I am, the presentation puts a bucket of ice on my head and forces my UNDIVIDED attention. I do not think Cello is a good contender for background music especially when driven by a “flee-watt” amp.

    The solidity and stability of portrayed musicians – their illusion,is a topic for another discussion. They super solid, accurate to the way they were recorded, with beautiful “air” around them. All DeVore, Dynaudio, and Harbeths obscured these micro-dynamic details making music presentation boring in a long run. Merlin VSM and Raidho came as close to Magellans as one can get, BUT still I prefer the French signature served by Cellos. Sabrinas were slightly too “hot” at moments that caused fatigue.

    No, I did not find ANY obvious flaws in a way Triangle speaker engages me into music. These towers speak to me on an emotional level - perhaps the autosuggestion fools me into biased admiration…..

    These speakers also have organic quality with unmatched musicality that hit the bull’s eye of my taste. The brass qualitiesof trumpet, sax, or trombone are lifelike in micro and macro scale. The harmonics of each notes are rich and have that quickly ending decay that are difficult to dress in words.

    Romance and happy marriage at their best…..at least for now :)
     
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  9. nn_in

    nn_in Member

    Location:
    India
    Thank You for the thoughtful insights and courageous candid analysis. It takes a lot of tenacity to clearly state what works for you and why it does !
    IMO these experiences you have shared are useful to understand the room impact .

    The aspect of reviews significantly influences our minds and even" if a not so known brand" may deliver significant emotional value we tend to align with reviews . The concept of FC,SC,EC (Functional,Social,Emotional Connect) plays out a lot. Beyond functional - what a product is intended for the "feel-what others would think,will my blog post get accepted" is also a factor that drives behaviour.Needless to add i would look forward to your insights .
    The amp factor is very well described. I learnt it the hard way after trawling through number of entry level amps.The remote control and the overall experience delivered and attention to the small details is important and spot on.

    I used to own Triangle Arpege Anniversary BS .
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2021
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  10. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA

    Wow! That's a whole lotta hauling speakers in and hauling speakers out.
     
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  11. stax o' wax

    stax o' wax Forum Resident

    Location:
    The West
    Please.
    If you think McDonalds wasn't already poisoning their customers you are fooling yourself.
    There's an incredibly high cost to cheap fast food and that cost is reflected in your health and then the costs to the health care system.
    And if you think that the pay increase for those full time employees at McDonalds doesn't translate into a standard of living increase for them please tell me how you intend for them to pay their rent or mortgage which have climbed tremendously just over the last 3 years alone in many major cities in the U.S.?
     
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  12. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA

    Longer I experiment with different speaker designs in my space, more I see that room has much more pronounced impact on the final delivery than people come to think. In fact – the room is the most limiting and overlooked factor in this hobby. Browsing through Audiogon, and Steve Hoffman room set-up galleries, one can easily see how acoustically terrible many systems are.

    Uber expensive systems are being placed in a little rooms with no symmetry, with large floor standing speakers directly “on-a-wall”. Many seem not to care that same speaker will sound very different in a different room, place, and environment. When I did experiment with Wilson’s Sabrinas, we moved them to fivedifferent rooms (2 at my place, 1 at the dealer, and 2 at my neighbor’s house).

    The differences were jaw dropping – far away from subtle for sure! Without going into details – The Sabrinas’ character change from dark, lifeless and muffled all the way to forward, bright, and fatiguing. There were five of us doing that experiment, and nobody believed we were listening to the same speaker…scale, soundstage, and imaging changed drastically as well.

    I started appreciate the fact of trying the speakers in my own space, even more when Harbeth 40.2, and DeVore 0/96 did not work. Even my local dealer is more open to customers’ tryout before purchase. The biggest mistake people often do (and I have done that multiple times myself in the past) is basing their purchase decisions strictly on review and dealer audition.

    Another interesting fact that you have pointed out is reviews and hypes – how they influence one’s decision to buy an audio gear. Frankly, that was the reason I have abandoned DeVore’s ship. His speakers, in my room, sounded far from what I expected and I got tired of the hype surrounding the brand. In my head - these products, while beautifully designed (divine front panels of 0/96s) were terribly overpriced for what they offer performance wise. I realized that one pays for beautiful design with actual little engineering behind. (Not too many speakers on the market look as beautiful as pair of 0/96s, especially when you have specific decor of your listening room). To add to my confusion and growing distrusts towards that brand, the “cooperation” between John and Jonathan Halpern (Tone Imports) totally killed it for me. Ask any Orangutans’ owner for the rest of their system and 99% of the will say – Shindo (if they can afford it), Line Magnetic (budget Shindo), Leben (integrated solution). Speaker cables: HAVE to be Auditorium 23a. If one cannot see the business association between two good friends (speaker maker and distributor), and reviewing magazines, they possibly need to open their eyes.

    The upper paragraph is written NOT to disrespect John and his products, but rather to explain WHY I decided to move DeVore speakers out of my listening space forever, trying to explore other options and on a quest to “Valhalla”.
     
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  13. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    Agreed 100%! You made some very good points. I will never buy speakers without having the opportunity to try them out at home. If you really don't know what you like, dealer auditions can give you a rough idea BUT then you NEED to take those speakers home for a proper audition in your room. And you have to try different positions/placement in your room before making a decision. Even my amps were only bought after in home auditions.
    As for placement, I guess people are sometimes forced to live with such limited speaker setups, but it's sad really.
     
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  14. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    Yes but why buy $80k Hellcat if you can only drive 25MPH with a stop every 20 seconds……just so you can say that you own one and impress your friends. In this case your car becomes a status symbol (perfectly fine my by many…) that will never show its full potential…
     
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  15. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    True! I just wanted to say that if I was forced to live with such limited speaker setup, I would not waste any money on expensive speakers, I would just try the best sounding $500 speakers and smack those against the wall. I agree it absolutely makes no sense to buy $5000 speakers and castrate or butcher their potentials by slapping them on a wall.
     
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  16. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    I just bought new speakers about 2 months ago. Didn't know about Triangle, if I had, maybe I would have give them an in home audition as they would be far easier to try out here in EU than in US. French audio gear is pretty popular here in Belgium. Maybe in a few years time ;).
     
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  17. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    I absolutely agree - very often, I have seen/heard $30k + speakers in a 10X12 rooms sounding utterly terrible. Nothing can really shock me in this hobby anymore - one local guy just purchased $50k turntable set-up (Brinkmann) just to hook it up to $1.3k phono stage, $2k amps and $2k speakers….go figure…..
     
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  18. Mr.Sign

    Mr.Sign Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
     
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  19. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    I am far from recommending triangle to anybody because they are very specific and sound different from other dynamic designs. I am writing about my own feelings/experiences that lead to unconditional and perhaps death-do-us-part love relation. I would not be surprised that many trying Triangles would be dissatisfied with their sound, trying to understand what wowed me about them in a first place.

    ALL of it because different ENVIRONMENTS and TASTES! How could I recommend you perfect wife, car or watch? It is all in details and preferences but once we take the” show-off” and status symbol out of the equation, we can truly focus on romantic experience behind the music. I am not saying it is easy – but I truly believe, it is possible. Abandon reviews, expert’sopinions, suggestions and simply trust your own ears – keep the grills on your speakers installed so that you cannot see drivers, dim the light (or turn them off) this way you can focus on sound experience only….
     
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  20. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    I know. Tried 3 different speakers before I decided on a 4th pair. All designs were pretty different from each other (from 'classic' conus box speakers to open baffle with compression driven tweeter) but I allready knew what I wanted from my previous speakers (planar designs with ribbon tweeters producing a very open top end/open voices) so I guess that made it easy for me to choose a new pair. In the end I just had to go with a ribbon tweeter design as they were the only ones giving me the same qualities as my older pair. Other tweeter designs I tried were either too harsh or too 'boxy' sounding, for me, in my room. So yes, each setup is different/personal. But it's only when you try out different designs you get to know what works for you in your room and which ones yield better results.

    Interestingly the speakers I got in the end were not even on my radar, it was the dealer who suggested them to me to try them out because he knew my old speakers (which I had for 30 years) and because of what I disliked about the other speakers I had tried.
     
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  21. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    You really have a vendetta against DeVore, don't you? And if you've ever actually spoke with Jonathan Halpern, you'll know he actually does not recommend Shindo be used with DeVore speakers. I don't get your need to disparage other speakers in order to enjoy your new ones. You didn't like DeVore speakers, fine. Move on with your life and enjoy what you have now.
     
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  22. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    My friend from work just bought Lexus 250h without even taking a test drive. His decision was purely based on reviews, recommendation from youTube and friends. He brought this dark grey beauty to work and was so proud of it. We were all standing outside admiring his new toy.

    The person - owner is very honest with me as we work closely together on a daily basis. I knew he was very excited switching from average Subaru to upscale Lexus.

    Several weeks – months after initial excitement declined, my friend started to see all these flaws that made the car very unsuitable for him. The dark grey paint showed off all dirt, pollen, and dust much more than his previous white Subaru. Since he is rather large – 270ib guy in his late 40s, getting in and out of the cabin became quite a workout for him.

    The new hybrid technology used in that model from Lexus gave a different to conventional motor, driving experience – very soft throttle response designed and tuned for efficiency made him very dissatisfied. He mentioned to me multiple times that the driver seat is very uncomfortable for his” big butt”. The infotament system was buried in menus controlled by touchpad with no dedicated buttons. I could easily see that this car slowly becomes my friend’s worst nightmare.

    Five months into the ownership, My buddy sold Lexus at substantial lost and got Toyota SUV that he loves till this day.

    Long story short – getting something as a status symbol will not work in a long run. It is very important to be truthful to yourself as to why you want to shell out big buck for audio system and if you have environment to accommodate it (Skinny woman in her 20s would probably love and enjoy the 250h’s capability and comfort)
     
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  23. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Good room treatments, like ASC, can make a huge difference, even in smaller rooms.
    I agree that great speakers or turntables need great electronics to go with them. I am a big advocate of system matching.
     
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  24. SME12A

    SME12A Takumi forever Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    While listening to several Tone Poet – Blue Note re-issues through the weekend, I realized how much Cellos are engaging me into the performance. Some speakers are doing great job in discouraging listener – that was clearly not the case here. From the first notes, I was involved, engaged, and watchful.

    There is something about the way Triangle Magellan Cellos portray music - it is free flowing, peaceful yet very engaging. No matter how long am I sitting in my listening spot, I am never fatigued, tired or bored. The contrasts between low passages and high intensity drumming are never compressed – no matter what volume I am listening at. When music material gets complicated – Cellos do not loose resolution or organic qualities. The Drum Suite by Art Blakey and Jazz Messengers (Impex IMP6019pressing) gives me goosebumps anytime I lower the stylus. Thunderous strikes and Art’s footwork is out of this world! I do not think I can dress my emotions in words to express what I feel when I listen to that album. You have to try it for yourself.

    What is even more interesting – since I own Magellans, I started listening to digital much more often. I am a huge fan of “Nordic” music and I collect ECM label releases. I have huge CD library that consists of most of the ECM catalogue. Usually, in the past – digital material sounded veiled with decreased resolution when compared to my analog front. Since Cellos arrival, my listening habits changed – I started to re-discover CD library with a great smile on my lips.

    Two days ago, I have received in the mail, newest album from Stephan Micus – “Winter’s End” that was just released in North America. (I have always admired Micus’ work and have 5albums out of his 19-20 released ones). His newest work is par excellence! The contrasts between light and dark, organic horizons are filled with rich micro-spectacles and shades. You can almost smell the exotic lands often filled with nostalgia that touches your heart and soul. Meditating qualities with Zen – calming and comforting feel, are preset throughout the whole album. I was so amazed that I put my CD transport on repeat and must have listed to that album at least 3 times. Cellos invited me for a trip in a fantasyland, where I could close my eyes, and admire all these subtle tones, shades, and textures. The performance made such a huge impact that I went on amazonthis morning and ordered all Stephan’s available albums. Listening to Stephan Mikus, Jan garbarek, Tord Gustavsen, Arvo Part, Tomasz Stanko, Nino Saluzzi, Anouar Brahem, Marcin Wasilewski, evoke my emotion – brining flashbacksfrom my childhood.

    French hit me right in the center of my heart….
     
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  25. Mr.Sign

    Mr.Sign Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    ECM fan here too
     
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