Tube Amp Recommendations/Advice??

Well, I've decided to re-do my entire system. I'm gonna can everything and get new stuff. So far I am leaning toward: Music Hall CD 25 cd player, Music Hall MMF-7 turntable, Monitor Audio Silver S8 speakers, Nakamichi LX-5 cassette. This leaves the big question: AMPLIFIER? I want an integrated amplifier and I want to go tubes. I am really trying to warm up the sound of my system and that is the main reason I am gutting it. I want something that is at least 25-30 wpc so it will drive my speakers. Here are my problems: 1) My budget for a used piece is in the $300-400 range. 2) I really like my music to have exceptional detail, realism, and clarity and I am afraid that if I go with a vintage piece, I will be sacrificing audiophile standards but I am not sure. 3) I don't want to replace my speaker cables and they have banana plugs. One of the things that has bothered me about vintage tube amps are the janky, screw lamp cord connectors on the back. If I were to get a vintage piece, would I want to modify the speaker connectors and put posts that would accept bananas? I guess my main question is in regard to sound quality. I'm sure a vintage tube amp, which it seems is all I can afford, will do nicely in terms of reproducing smooth and silky tunes, but will it rock? Will it do Sabbath and Zeppelin? Will it do electronica? I know a lot of this depends on the power rating, of course, but I'm afraid to loose the punch, clarity, and detail of my Arcam Alpha 7. I would GREATLY appreciate any remarks, advice, or recommendations. Additionally, if anyone is interested in any of my current gear listed in my profile, send me a PM.

 

Dynaco ST70. Anyone else think not? Or agree?

Do you think you're ready for tubes, Prix?

 

With the Dynaco, I need a preamp. I want an integrated amplifier. I don't have room for anything more. I don't know if I'm ready for tubes. That's why I posted this thread. I'm trying to find out if tubes are right for my stereo. Lordy knows they've been right for my guitar amps forever. What I am ready for is a little warmth and honey. I'm tired of having my ears shredded. Sometimes I really miss my vintage Realistic receiver and '60s Sony speakers before I started all of this audiophile nonsense. That was a time when I remember enjoying my music, rather than obsessing over it.

 

I apologize if I'm Dyna-headed. The easiest PRE companion to the ST70 would definately be a Bottlehead Foreplay. If you're keen with a soldering iron. If not, hey, I understand. It leaves a lot, for not much, still about $149.

I'm not sure how much our resident trumpet player paid for his 240... Get into the habit of looking on Audiogon.com and eBay for some amps you're keen on, and ask people here.... Steve will even pipe in when he can, I'm sure.

 

You might look for an AMC amp second hand. They're new enough to be free of a lot of things that might frighten you off of a vintage piece. I have not heard their amps, but I own one of their tubed preamps and I really like it a lot. Surprisingly neutral (as in, not "tubed" in a bad way) and wideband sounding. The phono preamp is (for a moving magnet preamp) very quiet, and the phones amp nice and beefy.

(For some reason they call it 'automation series'. No idea why, since it doesn't even come with a remote.)

 

Good idea! The AMC amps aren't very expensive. They sure are ugly, though. I wonder how they sound? I guess I could always have it chrome plated!

 

Just looked at the AMC website. It seems they don't make a tube integrated amplifier. Just pre and power.

 

I'm not an expert on amps or tubes, but I know what I like, soundwise...

 

Vintage amps in fine fettle can sound surprisingly modern. Leaks for example can rock, jazz and play classical with the best. As to a pre-amp, a little passive will take you a long way, though you will have to fool around a bit to use the tape deck.
As to 'Janky' old vintage speaker connectors, they're, as you say, Janky and are easily replaced in such a way that you can put the old crappy screws on back if you want. A Dynaco would be a fine choice I think. Spend a little more on the amp and hold off on the other upgrades and you will enjoy it.
Jeff
I agree, 70s Realistic is a lot better than people give it credit for.

 

I still have that 25wpc gold-paneled integrated amp they sold in the late 70's...it had a "1000" model # designation (don't remember the prefix), and it had matching tuner and EQ. I can vouch for the fact that it is not a good sounding piece. When I got a power amp, I had to rewire that Realistic for a few months to use it as a preamp. It was an extremely easy modification, since pre and power amps were on separate boards. But once I got my first Hafler, the difference was astonishing. I never realized how much the phono section of the Realistic was overloading...a cymbal splash had sillibance to it, and the bottom end was not tight at all.

But for a recommendation, IF going the separates route, I'd be keen on recommending something like a Hafler preamp (DH110) and one of the smaller power amps like a DH220 (I think it's 110w/ch). Not tubed, but for transistorized sound, very good IMHO. I have two Hafler preamps....love 'em both. Finding a good deal on these just might squeak in under budget.

 

Hi, prix:

The msrp on this tube IA is a bit above your budget but should be available slightly used in your range and within reach new with a decent discount.


I don't have any experience with the Jolida but perhaps others can advise on that front.

Here is a description: http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/jd102b.html

Regards,

Jet

 

Hi Sckott,

A nice 240 is $1500+ and is not integrated. Probably not what Prix was thinking......... but on behalf of the Mac people at the Forum, thanks for thinking of us!

-Jeffrey

 

It might not be very easy to go with something under the $400 range for an integrated tuber and come out with something excellent AND have good availability to tubes. NOS and some used tubes can be $$. There are instances where you can buy Fisher's and Sherwoods IF in good condition with working tubes.

In that, replacement tubes are freaking expensive, and Russian soldiers don't exist.

Just a side note: You're VERY lucky if any stranger on eBay's gonna sell you an amp AND give you good tubes. Factor THAT into the equation every time. Some NOS tubes are worth as much as some amps WITH no tubes. Why sell them together? Yep. They'll give you some 1/2 dead Chinese tubes, and you'll think the amp is on the fritz.

I'd also look into getting a tube checker, BIG time. Saves face. They go on eBay for $20-50, and you have to make sure the unit supports your interest of tubes. (Some don't test 7199 and some pre types, most DO test 6SL7's...)

I own a large 65 fresh water fish tank. It's a LOT like having tube amps. It's very expensive starting out sometimes, but when you learn the maintenance, you're basically bulletproof, and need nothing but a soldering iron and a good light, and you'll fly past people with cheaper SS amps every time.

 

There's stuff around though. Sansui made some fine kit. As did Fisher, Sherwood, Dynaco, Scott and Eico, all of which is pretty fairly priced--at least it's not in the Mac/Marrantz territory. Alternatively, have some fun with the Waves from Divertech. The bigger brothers of the original 10 watters I think would drive your speakers and get you what you want, though I haven't tried them myself. You would still need a pre-amp, but passive will do you and they can be found or built for not a lot. Jeff

 

Yeah, most of them were Pioneers in disguise. The only way to make them sound good, though, is to punch that loudness button.

 

I've looked at Jolida. Most of the stuff A) has no headphone input B) no phono stage. and C) only four inputs.

 

I used to have a gorgeous Scott. It was either a model 299 or 399, I think. I wish I had never sold it. I plugged it in at my tech's house and let him use it for a while. I wasn't too keen on the way it sounded through his giant vintage JBLs. It didn't seem powerful enough. Still with the right speakers.......oh well:

 

That is a nice unit. Pots were nice and clean? Cool.

 

Let's summarize:

0. integrated valve amplifier
1. budget for a used piece is in the $300-400 range.
2. likes music to have exceptional detail, realism, and clarity
3. banana sockets for speaker cables
4. headphone ouput
5. phono stage.
6. more than four inputs
7. 25-40w
8. not ugly (AMC)
9. sounds better than a Pioneer with the loudness button on

I don't see it.

Regards,
Geoff

 

Okay, well, that's what I wanted to know. Nothing I could find would meet my standards and still be within my budget, so that is one of my reasons for posting this thread. Now I am willing to sacrifice some of my needs, such as numbers 3, 6, 7, and 8, for example, I could modify the speaker jacks to suit my needs. My MAIN question is this, and perhaps I should have just stated it as such: Are there any VINTAGE valve amplifiers that produce exceptional detail, realism, and clarity that is at least somewhat on par with newer mid-fi audiophile pieces? Judging from your profile, Geoff, you would be the perfect person to give me some advice here. Do you know what I'm saying?

 

I have a ST-70 and Pas 2 but I also have a SCA-35. It's a integrated Dynaco and it sounds sweet. Only problem is that it's rated at 17.5 watts per channel. It sounds a lot louder than that when driving the Dynaco A-25's. I am just fiddling around with this tube stuff right now but I have read that some consider this very highly, purportedly on account of the iron (transformers) impart a real nice sound.

I think that's the model number, mine is stored right now at work so I can't confirm.

Plus it's got a phono section, lots of uprgrade paths. I am sure others know more on this subject and this piece than I around this forum.

 

I know exactly what you are saying, but to be honest, I don't know enough to really help you. I have a feeling that you might find vintage tube amps not quite to your speed.

I think it does depend on your speakers, and since you are looking in that area, you want to find the right combination. If you fall in love with speakers that are not right for valve amps (particularly low powered jobs), then you can't go that way.

I chose my main speakers because I wanted to use single-ended triodes (8w). I have had the big tranny amps (100w pure class A) and wanted to try a different route.

In my bedroom system I have an Arcam Alpha 10 integrated amp, and a pair of J. M. Reynaud Twin MkIII speakers. This is a really nice combination, as the Twins are somewhat less efficient than my main speakers and the Arcam has plenty of power and current.

The weakness of the Arcam is not the power amp section at all - it's the preamp. At one stage I tried my BAT VK-50SE preamp with the Arcam running as a power amp only, and I was knocked out my the sound. I had been using this integrated amp for a year or so, and I liked it a lot. But when I bypassed the internal preamp and used a really good preamp (and a really expensive one too!), the sound was out of this world.

So, I think a good transistor power amp with a decent valve preamp is one combination you should explore. You say you only have room for one piece; but I'd still be looking this way.

One of your problems is getting a good phono stage. Something like a used Audio Research SP6 would be nice. But it's not going to be under your ceiling.

Remember the NAD 3020 - not a bad tranny amp with a phono section and a split pre-power architecture. Should find one used for $100 or so. Then find a valve pre-amp with phono stage at the right price and use the power amp section of the NAD for a while. Then later you may have more money and be more flexible in choosing your amp. The amp you choose may not be vintage, and may not be tubes. But you will choose one that matches your speakers and works in your house.

I know I'm not giving you answers - I'm just exploring all the options. Sometimes it's best to think of where you want to get to in a couple of years, and seeing how you are going to use the funds you have now, and the funds you may get in the future, to reach your long term goal.

I would not feel bad about having a NAD 3020 as a back up amp. With tubes, things often play up and you end up with some downtime. A nice cheap amp in reserve will keep the music flowing.

Let's continue a dialog and we'll see where we go.

Regards,
Geoff

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a schematic, buy the parts and DIY for $400. Especially if your looking for an integrated.

 

I think I might have found something. A friend of mine has one of these Harman Kardon A50K integrated tube amps. It's the kit version of the A500. I am pretty sure it's from 1962 and is 25 wpc. Here are a couple of pics I've found on the web. There is one on ebay and one in Japan, although my friend's is cleaner:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3017608991&category=3282

http://tubelink.com/audio/inteamp/hk/A50K_1.html

I would upgrade the speaker connections with binding posts that will accept banana plugs, RCA terminals(silver or copper Bullet plugs for the phono and aux/cd), and power cord, and replace the caps with Black Gates and all wire with solid core silver if possible.

Would this be an absurd amount of modification to do to such an inexpensive amp? Would such mods greatly improve the sound; enough to be worthwhile? Any comments???


Update: Since it looks like this is what I am going to be getting, I'm starting a new thread about this amp. Many thanks for all the advice in this thread!!