tube preamp recommendations

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by darkstar, Jul 20, 2002.

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  1. darkstar

    darkstar New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Frosty Minnesota
    I expect to win the lottery some day and when I do I want to replace my passive Creek with a tube preamplifier.

    Unfortunately, my lotto winnings are in scare supply as of late and I am consigned to $500-$700.

    My amps are Welborne Labs Laurel IIs, and the speakers are Klipshorn. The source has a tendency to change over time but it's Theta Miles Cee Dee, and B&O TT.

    A preamp with a reasonably good phono stage is a plus. That way I'll have another rat hole to throw money down, when I get around to upgrading my 24 year old TT.

    I've read about Bottlehead Foreplay (at the lower end, maybe $275 for a fulll blown kit) to Consonance Basie, maybe $600 for a full blown kit, to lawd-knows at the high end.

    All this kit talk does not imply that kits are what I prefer, but I assume at my price range we're talking either kit or used. I do know which end of a soldering iron to hold, so a kit isn't out of the question.

    Any recommendations?
     
  2. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    B.C.
    Welcome darkstar,

    I'm sort of in the same position as you, only I would up-grade my power-amp to tubes because my SS pre is pretty incrediable.

    Are your power-amps tube? If so, then I'd suggest getting a decent tube pre. Just MHO:)
     
  3. darkstar

    darkstar New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Frosty Minnesota
    Yeah, the Welborne Labs Laurel IIs are 300B Single Ended Triodes.
     
  4. efhjr

    efhjr Idler Wheel Enthusiast

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    It's pretty easy to find a Dynaco PAS-2 or PAS-3 on eBay nowadays for $200-$300. There's plenty of information about repairs and upgrades about the classic Dynaco components available on the 'net, also.

    Though a little out of your price range, Wright-Sound makes a tube preamp with phono and line stage. I own the WPL10V and am very happy with it.
     
  5. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL
    There is a WPL10V at Audiogon right now for a reasonable price.

    I too am contemplationg a preamp.
     
  6. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Ditto mate. Mine have the Ultimate Upgrade stuff (Black Gates, Yamamoto Teflon sockets). Originally they came with the KR Enterprise 300B valves, but I now use Full Music (TJ) mesh-anode 300B tubes. The driver tubes were NOS Philips but I replaced these with NOS Sylvania VT-229 Joint Army-Navy jobbies from 1945. I have a STACK of driver tubes of different types to try out when I get the time. The rectifier tubes that come in the Ultimate Upgrade are Mullard GZ37, but I have a pair of Full Music 274Bs that I'm yet to try. One day!

    I'd be very tempted by the Wright-Sound based on reviews, but if you are handy with the soldering iron, the Foreplay offers good sound and endless enjoyment. Some folks have some very wild Foreplays. You'd have to get a phone stage to go with this though; I guess the Wright PP100C would be too expensive. Nice one though.

    Regards,
    Geoff
     
  7. mcow1

    mcow1 Sommelier Gort

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Same here, I'm leaning towards a Dynaco pas 2 or 3 at the moment so any opinions would be appreciated.
     
  8. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Try a McIntosh tube preamp MX110. Steve used to have one and liked it (it used Telefunken 12AX7's, the only small tube with the built in Breath of Life, according to Steve!)

    I had the Pas 3 (I think - a tube one, anyway) but the McIntosh blew it away. Avoid the Harmon Kardon tube preamp and amps. The Dynaco sounded better.

    Of course the McIntosh was a tad pricier than the Dynaco..... you may have to hunt around!
     
  9. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    P.S. Not to offend anyone but - IMO, of course - I've heard the Foreplay, too. I'll stick to the McIntosh, thank you very much!

    This foreplay was stock. I'd *guess* you'd have to tweak a bit to upgrade it for more listening enjoyment. But I've never heard a tweaked one so I can't really tell.
     
  10. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL
    Can't you be more specific about what you didn't like about the Foreplay? What exactly is the breath of life?
     
  11. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    The Magnum versions of either Rogue (the 66 or 99) are exceptional. You'll not find a friendlier more knowledgeable guy than Mark O'Brien either.

    http://www.rogueaudio.com/
     
  12. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    The Foreplays are quite nice, IMHO. I can build one in less than 90 minutes, give it GOOD caps and GOOD tubes. They're rock solid, and you can make it look techie or just gorgeous depending on what you do. While it IS low-cost, it's a very sweet low-frills preamp. The sound, I've felt, is perfect for the Dynaco ST70. The trannys are easy to get, the rest is fairly standard stuff, and there's MANY places to tweek it. It goes as deep as you want to.

    There's nothing out there that's close in many categories. That's what won me over. It just makes sense, sounds great.
     
  13. TimB

    TimB Pop, Rock and Blues for me!

    Location:
    Colorado
    Check out some of the Antique Sound Labs preamps. They have several under $1000, one as low as $300 (line stage) they also have stand alone phono preamps if you choose to do this in stages. Their seems to be plenty of dealers who handle them, and the build quality is top notch. If you want to check out used, I have also read many good things about the Audible Illussions preamps, they do have a cult following.
     
  14. TimB

    TimB Pop, Rock and Blues for me!

    Location:
    Colorado
    I forgot to mention the tube preamp I am useing, the Muscial Fidelity Pre-X. Not bad for the money, can be had for about $200-$300 on the used market.
     
  15. akshobhyavajra

    akshobhyavajra New Member

    Location:
    South Florida


    You may want to check out Mapletree Audio Design (see URL):

    http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/

    Lloyd Peppard offers BOTH DIY and assembled products for a very reasonable price ($265.00 - $ 500.00). His new Ultra 4m Mini Series
    Stereo Phono/Line Preamplifier (using 2x12SC7, 2x12SN7GT) sells for only $ 385.00 (assembled and tested). The unit even has a separate
    power supply.

    http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/ultra4.htm

    Good Luck,

    ~Michael~

    PS I have had several items built by Lloyd and am quite happy with the products, esp. considering the reasonable cost.
     
  16. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Pigmode, to me, the Foreplay had less presence, less detail, less fullness than the McIntosh preamp. Lacking in midrange and Breath of Life. The McIntosh just shines in the mids!

    Of course I also have a McIntosh amp!

    Of course, and I will repeat, this was the basic, stock Foreplay that I heard. When I commented on my disappointment, I was told that it would double in cost to upgrade it (tubes, caps, etc.). And since I refuse to dabble in the mysterious world of soldering (Sckott seems to be an expert in this area!), and since my McIntosh sounded so, so much better, I never considered Foreplay for a secondary system at all.

    When Steve begins a remastering project, one of the first things he concentrates on are the vocals (Mastering 101, as he called it!). They have to sound "real". You can also call it a liquidy midrange. The Telefunken small tubes 12AX7's was the only small tube that Steve felt had a "built in" Breath of Life. The McIntosh can use these 12AX7 tubes. To my ears, the Foreplay does not have this mid range.

    But I have no doubt, based on Sckott's comments, that the Foreplay is a good match for the Dynaco tube ST70 amplifier. I'd hazard a guess that it would be a *better* match that a Dynaco preamp.

    In the past, I had a stock Dynaco ST70 with a Pas 2 (or was it 3?) tube preamp. As I said before, I was not impressed with the Dynaco tube preamp that I had. It was "Ok", but... "shrug". The amp was OK - coloured, but "fun". :D Sometimes I wish I had kept it for a secondary system. But my McIntosh tube pre and amp is definitely superior to the Dynaco tube pre and amp. If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking at McIntosh if vintage electronics floats your boat!
     
  17. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL
    Thanks Gary,

    I'll get some Telefunken 12AX7s for my power amps if the cost is not too outrageous.
     
  18. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    South Texas
    Hi,

    NOS Tele's are available for about $30 ea.

    Damn that's right, my name isn't Gary.:D

    -Jeffrey
     
  19. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Wow, good price, Gary!

    Any particular place?

    Jeffrey

    :D
     
  20. darkstar

    darkstar New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Frosty Minnesota
    Yeah, I actually had an order placed for a Foreplay with most of the upgrades a while back and cancelled it at the last minute.

    I am really stuck with the issue of a preamp. That is, what consistitutes a good preamp v. a bad one.

    Do I eschew tone controls? That puts the Macs and their ilk out of the running.

    Do I worry about quality parts? Quality transformers alone would cost twice what the Foreplay costs.

    Do I fuss over the circuit design? This I think is the most significant issue but also the one that I have the least ability to distinguish.

    The 'old' advice is to 'buy quality' and that usually reads 'expensive'. I just can't afford a $1600-$5000 preamp or I'd just buy a Hovland or Cary SLP-98 and be done with it.

    I've read about the MAD preamps and they look interesting. I like the idea of an engineer selling his patented designs on the cheap. Just don't want to buy one at $385 and end up selling it for $167 on Audiogon a week later because it didn't fit the bill.

    Maybe if it has a return type policy I would give a new preamp a try.
     
  21. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Good points, DarkStar. It would be nice to hear them first huh? :(

    Hunt around in your area. Someone somewhere must sell tube preamps. They'd know some other stores who would also sell tube premaps.... hopefully.

    BTW, I saw the list and I am due to win the lotto right after you. So hurry up will ya? I have plans to buy a recording studio and use it as a stereo "concert hall". Yer cramping my oh-so-deserved style. :D

    PS: Is your moniker Darkstar named after that classic movie, Dark Star?
     
  22. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    South Texas
    Well, Jeffrey.....

    I found NOS Tele's on Ebay for @ $30 ea. a number of times but you gotta do your homework.....

    Gary (oh damn, did it again):laugh:
     
  23. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Tone control and physical appearence should be concidered the least of the worry, or for what you decide on.

    The only thing about the Foreplay, Doc can take about 8 weeks to ship. They're a hell of a lot of fun to build.
     
  24. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    For me, Sckott, I don't think they'd be too much "fun".... ;)

    Must be nice to be talented, Sckott! I can use a hammer and that's about it... :(
     
  25. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Ah, you're a hammer guy. I hate those things. Makes my thumb hurt lots. :cry:

    Give me a live electronic component with enough voltage in it to kill me, and I'm a happy camper! :D

    Was trying to build in the basement last year with my dad. Ya know, nails n stuff. Trying to erect the beams, nail them in at a 45' angle... After the second time, I made sure my thumb was OUT of the way. Eeek!

    Talented?? Maybe. Coordinated? Sometimes.
     
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