Tube Rolling ANK DAC 2.1

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by DyersEve726, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. jenkovix

    jenkovix Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe, Hungary
    yes, sure. not in chronological order:
    -changed the stock output transformers to triple C-core
    -complete tube roll. present tubes: 2x Tungsol 5687, Bendix 5852, Telefunken ECL82, all NOS.
    -I/V transformer change from stock to Sowter
    -change of I/V signal resistors on the digital board from stock to AN tantalum (very important part!)
    -swap of the coupling caps from stock to Miflex
    -added a separate transformer for the digital PSU board
    -change of the stock diodes to ITT gold pin NOS 1N4001 everywhere (on the digital PSU board too!)
    -swap of the CS8414 receiver chip to DIL CS8412 (red book only)
    -power chord
    -Daruma vibration set under the unit

    every change elevated the sonics of the unit at different levels. maybe the three biggest are:
    -tube roll
    -I/V
    -output transformers

    I am planning some cap changes here and there as well :) hope this helps!
     
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  2. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
  3. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    Tonight I swapped out the ANK I/V transformer. Many years (18!) ago I bought this pair of Stevens & Billington TX103 M/C stepup transformer. It can be configured to 1:5.

    First I took out the 2x 330R on the DAC board, they are in "parallel" with the 330R on the line board. effectively giving a 165R load resistance. The sound without the 330R on the DAC board (ie. 330R total load resistance) was a bit more dynamic, but perhaps not as smooth, but there is more detail. Most ppl I read online use around 200R only.

    With the 1:5 I/V, 200R x5 is 1k. I just happen to have some 1k Takman REY. so I put those as the load resistor with the TX103.

    The sound was... WOW. Dramatic improvement across the board. Most noticbly the detail and texture. Violin, trumpets, triangles, harp, I am hearing more details. Details but without the edginess that was there before, very natural. The bass speed and extension, sound stage was deep and 3D. I sat down and finished a whole Swan Lake album (Gergiev, Mariinsky Theatre Orchestra) and this is an album that I am very familiar with yet I am finding new things that I didn't hear before.

    So I think aside from the 6922 tube itself, this is the biggest bottleneck in the ANK DACs. Highly recommended upgrading it. You can still find the TX103. But they are not cheap, and they are huge. I had to move the line board to another set of mounting holes in order to fit them.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  4. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Curious if the cable going from the digital coax to DAC board came with your kit? I was given a twisted pair that felt wrong in that spot. Brian assured me it was fine and fit better on the board, but always felt a legit coax should be there.
     
  5. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    My tubes from Upscale should be here by Monday according to FedEx. I'm very excited to hear them and I'll make note of any differences I notice compared to my other Siemens.

    I also went ahead and ordered the Jupiter Caps. I've been eyeing them a really long time. They should be shipping out today. I figure this is the easiest thing to do out of all the mods listed, so I'll start there. Not sure I want to mess with new transformers n such just yet. You guys have introduced so much new information, I'll have to take it in small chunks, lol. Expect questions when I get there.
     
  6. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    I bought this DAC2.1 used. From the style/quality of the assembly it is not a kit but one of those officially assembled unit. When it came, it looks like it is built by the same guy who build the one in the official photos.
     
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  7. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    I have also decided to order the Jupiter cap. I suggest burning them in for at least 200 hours for the sound to settle. Good thing is that it is much easier to do that with a DAC than an amp or speaker.
     
  8. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I put their Vintage Yellow in all applicable positions (besides tone controls) in an old Pioneer SX34. The results were incredible. Love that receiver.
     
  9. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    Have you compared it to the copper foil? At that price, it is almost ok to buy a couple to test out. The copper foil on the other hand, is not...
     
  10. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Did I try the yellows in my DAC? No, I hadn't thought to get any to try. I suppose they are only $17, so I could if I wanted to.
     
  11. fully_articulated

    fully_articulated Forum Resident

    This is a marvelous experiment (and a complete distraction from the amplifier I'm supposed to be building :D).

    It may be stating the obvious, but not only does the 200R/1K resistor combo match the 1:5 transformer ratio, it also produces very close to the same 165R load resistance of the original setup doesn't it? I find that enormously satisfying.

    Let me just say, from a personal perspective, your efforts in this thread have been much appreciated.
     
  12. fully_articulated

    fully_articulated Forum Resident

    It looks to be an additional length of the same AN cable used for the analog output. I know what you mean about not using proper digi-coax. I subbed some in myself.
     
  13. fully_articulated

    fully_articulated Forum Resident

    Now may be a good time to request a Gort rename this thread to something like "ANK Dac Tube Rolling & Upgrade Mods" too. ;)

    If I ever get around to doing some of these alterations I'll surely post them here.
     
  14. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    If you are like us who are holed up at home 24/7. we have tons of time to play. :)

    yes. In fact, the output level is very close. I only need to adjust the volume down a little to match what it was before.

    You are welcome. It is all in the quest of fun, knowledge, and sonic bliss.
     
  15. fully_articulated

    fully_articulated Forum Resident

    Yes, we are in lockdown too. Unfortunately our house is rather small so it's actually in a space at work that my building/experimenting has to be done! At home is for math, planning and design.

    I wonder if there's enough of us around to create a general DIY thread - "DIY Corner" - or something like that? Somewhere to talk about and show what we're up to, provide support etc. I sometimes post on diyaudio, but it's more an exercise in embarrassing myself by asking rudimentary questions.
     
  16. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    Same here. And that a lot of the diyaudio crowd don't believe in boutique parts.
     
  17. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    Ah crap. Partsconnexion is closed for 2wks due to COVID19. I guess no new parts for a little while.
     
  18. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    Got a RCA W Germany made 6BM8/ECL82. Supposedly made by Telefunken. But it doesn't have a diamond mark at the bottom, so I am not sure if it is genuine. I tried to match the internals with photos online but it doesn't match any of it.

    It replaces a NOS Mullard ECL82.

    The sound is better. I guess that's what matters?
     
  19. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Got my tubes today. I was extra careful putting them in this time. Wetted the pins with some contact cleaner. It's always startling to me how dead new tubes sound. No bass. No dimension. Can't wait for later tonight :)
     
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  20. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I've also got a NOS Mullard in that spot. You really notice a difference? I haven't even bothered rolling that tube. Didn't notice much, if any, difference rolling the rectifier tube, so I figured the same would be true of that regulator tube or whatever it does, haha.
     
  21. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    I didn't get much from the rectifier either. I changed mine from a Sylvania to a Tungsol. However, the 6BM8/ECL82 is the voltage regulator which directly supply power to the output tube.

    My NOS Mullard 6BM8 that came with the unit is crap. The replacement I got is a RCA label, the seller says made by Telefunken, but very obviously not as there is no diamond in the base. However, it turned out to be Telam, which shares a lot of the structure with Philips/Amperex. It sounds better than the Mullard, like a thin veil was removed, not dramatic, but definitely noticable.

    I have a supposedly Siemens made one coming and that's supposed to be the best one.
     
  22. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Early thoughts now that they've warmed up some. Definitely similar qualities to the 60s Siemens. I am quite sure I'm going to be very satisfied with these. So far, they seem to beat the other set on bass punch and clarity...actually clarity in general across the board. Soundstage is good, very wide, but not as 3D. Sounds big and powerful though. Hard to compare them to tubes I haven't heard in like a week. Regardless, they definitely stomp the Amperex in my system, so I feel I've made a good choice.
     
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  23. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Wow, no doubt, the clarity is the most notable quality. I have never heard vocals cut through the mix like this or noticed so many subtle background details. I DO think I like these more than the others. Was listening to a song with some weird synth percussion that made me swear my cat was in the hallway throwing up, lol. I had to play it back to make sure it was really in the music.

    I am stunned. Not sure if I like this specific make of tube better or if this is the result of purchasing the Kevin's Stash rated tubes. As of now, I can't recommend these enough.
     
  24. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    FWIW, “Kevin’s stash” is a new marketing term Upscale came up with very recently. For years the description of testing by ear is how they described the platinum vs. gold tier. Now they just gave it a new name, charge more, and charge the same to do less with “platinum”.

    Note I like the guy, have bought dozens of tubes from him and continue to do so, I just didn’t want you to think he actually opened his special drawer and gave you the tubes he was saving for rainy days or something. I’ll also add his Jedi mind trick works on me every single time as well.
     
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  25. DyersEve726

    DyersEve726 Schmo Diggy Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Aahaha, thanks for the info. I figured there was some marketing hoopla there, but for an extra $10 over Platinum, why not?

    I don't think this is a mind trick though. I was pretty worried I'd be mad that I spent more on these than the others. Was actually expecting disappointment. After a couple hours with them, I know for sure they are my favorite of the bunch. There's a trade off with the 3D imagining being not quite as deep, but the overall soundstage is larger and more detailed. I'm really enjoying it.
     
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