Tubes and Cables

How would you prioritize your tweaks with a tube system once all the major components were finalized? Tubes first, or cables?


I ened up focusing on cables first because I had run of the mill stuff initially.

 

I wouldn´t spend too much money on cables, good quality stuff that is not overpriced will do for me (and most recording studios, too.)

People focus too much on cables. It would be better if they focused a little more on connectors. Why use expensive cables on crappy RCA connectors ? Unfortunately most components are still built with RCA connectors, because they are cheap, do the job and everybody uses them (in order of relevance for equipment manufacturers.)

XLR is a better alternative that is widely available, and there are more choices.

Whether you should upgrade your tubes depends on the tubes you have in your system now. There are good and bad tubes from current production. List what types and brands of tubes you have in your system.

 

I largely agree with petzi on cables. Although cables can sound different, they aren't BIG differences - even on very high quality systems. One night last week three of my local audiophile buddies got together to compare two highly touted and expensive interconnects and a much cheaper one. Although the differences were slight, no one could agree that one was substantially better than the others (except that the cheap cable wasn't quite as detailed or dynamic).On the two expensive ones, it pretty much depended on the LP that was being played.

Balanced (XLR) connectors may be a better choice, but since there are relatively few components that offer this option it's moot.

Tubes are another matter, and while petzi is, again, correct in saying that there are some current production tubes that can rival the sound of vintage/NOS tubes, it really does boil down to the components in use and the particular type of tube your components use. I use a 19 year-old amplifier that was designed around the Mullard EL34, but current production Svetlanas and Sovteks don't sound nearly as good in it. Ditto the 7308's that are used in its input stage. A few months ago I was faced with replacing all of the tubes in the amp (8 EL34's and 4 7308's). After some short comparisons, I ended up with the Chinese Valve Art EL34 (closer to the sound of the Mullards in my amplifier than any of the other current production tubes) and some NOS Amperex 7308's which were substantially better than the Sovteks.

My preamp is a current production unit that uses 12AU7's, but again rolling a few tube brands in it revealed that the Mullard was better than the Sylvanias that came with it.

Once again, YMMV. Modern tube equipment may sound just as good with current production tubes. You'll just have to experiment and choose which sound appeals to you most.

 

How right you are, Steve. My old buddy, Richard Gray (of Richard Gray's Power Company) turned me on to the Valve Arts last Fall. Being the type of guy he is (not QUITE the type with the tape on his glasses and the pen pouch in his shirt pocket, but close), Richard endorsed these tubes by saying, "they don't break, and they'll last you a lot longer than the Russian tubes will," and leaving it at that. Claims to use them almost exclusively in his business.

Thanks for the info on Brian Cherry's site. His price on the EL34 is about $3.50 per tube less than tubeman. That's a savings of the price of a Gold DCC CD on a set of 8. I've already bookmarked it.

 

Steve,

I'm a little surprised that you didn't mention that RCA's perform far more musically than XLR connections.

 

You must have seen that episode of Seinfeld where Elaine was trying to determine whether a guy was "spongeworthy." She conducted interviews. The only thing that was missing (to make it even funnier) was a clipboard on which she could have been taking notes.

I recently made an audiophile gaff by mentioning to audiophile guests that my Mullards were for special occasions only. One jokingly replied that I must not think they were "tubeworthy."

My speaker manufacturer has a notation that his warranty would be null and void if rap music were played through his speakers. Don't know what he'd say about Bloodrock... or even Grand Funk Railroad.

 

Re: Re: Tubes and Cables

I have (stock) GE 6CA7/EL34 and JAN Phillips 12AX7WA. The 12AX7 were replaced with Mullard 4004s. The GE output tubes (from AES) were spec'ed by my dealer, so I have to ask him about the specifics.

As far as upgrading the EL34s, I think I will stay with a price cap of $75. ea. Still have't considered any replacements although Upscale is pushing the Ei KT90 type 3.

 

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That's a lot of money.

 

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I won't necessarily spend that much, and it won't be for a few months anyway. Plus my girl was looking at a new sewing machine (sigh).

 

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I am a little surprised by this discussion; it is the first time I hear someone say that Chinese tubes are any good.
I heard nothing but good about Svetlana power tubes, though.

Can you look at the Phillips and Mullard tubes; they should have a two line code etched into the glass. The second line *might* begin with something that is not in the alphabet.
Did you notice an improvement when you replaced the Phillips ?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Tubes and Cables

I'll check for the line code after work.


At just under 15 hr. of use, the Mullards are not burned in yet, but so far they are a noticable improvement over the Phillips. The midrange is sweet, sweet, sweet, but there is also a slight touch of brightness which I hope will get smoothed over with time.

 

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Try them, you'll like them.

 

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Absolutely. You have to pick your poison of course. I've listened to quite a few 300B output valves (unfortunately I have not heard NOS Western Electrics), and the Full Music mesh-anodes are something very special. And the price is right: $275 a pair.

There was a shootout on www.enjoythemusic.com some months ago, and Thorsten Loesch rated the Full Music mesh-anodes as the king of the hill. I just browsed an English hi-fi mag today (possibly HiFi World) and they compared 8 or so 300Bs, including the new Western Electric, the Full Music 300B, and the special Full Music with ceramic base and gold pins. They preferred the special Full Music valve.

[These tubes are known by other names: TJ, Sophia Electric, Golden xxxx. They all come from the Full Music factory in China]

Regards,
Metralla

 

Steve,

I'm not averse to indulging myself, but I can't quite come to grips with spending $1000-$2000 for a pair of NOS Western Electrics. But you know how it goes - never say never. Maybe if the stock market takes off and my options end up climbing out of the mire, who knows. I'd sure like to hear your WAVACs with the meshies though.

Regards,
Metralla

 

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I don´t understand why even current production 300Bs are so much more expensive than other audio triodes with similar power. I plan to do a project with 211 or 845, which cost a fraction of 300B, and yet they are in use in a number of high-end amplifiers, so I would assume these are not inferior to 300B in any way. Is is just the reputation of the 300B ? Is it more difficult to manufacture ?

 

Steve,

Do you think the Valve Art EL34 tubes would work well with my Dynaco ST-70? I should get some back-ups for a rainy day. How much does that place usually charge for shipping from Honk Kong?

Todd

 

I just wanted to say that my Sovtek 2A3's are a little smoother in the treble than my Valve Art 2A3's that came with my Bottlehead Paramour kit. I don't have any experience with any other Valve Art tube (yet). The Sovteks don't have the cool blue glow inside like the Valve Arts, tho.

 

Todd,

I thought about the shipping charges too (and the greater potential for damage).

tubeman in Florida sells a matched quad (perfect for an ST-70) for $54.95 plus $5.00 shipping.

If you calculate that Brian Cherry's price for four is $36.00 ($9.00 each), that means that as long as shipping charges are less than $20, you will save a few dollars.

tubeman is very reliable and quick to ship, BTW. Here's the link to the Valve Art EL34 on his site:

http://www.tubeman.com/item79.htm

 

re: tube guilt

I think I'm approaching system guilt. What started as a $1500. amp & speaker purchase, has balooned into a living, breathing monster.

 

Thanks, sgb! I'll check out the site. I think I really should have a back-up set.

Todd