Turntable Upgrade Advice

An RT85 is significantly audibly better than his 120.

 

Nice, times are good as an American audiophile from the looks of it
Most things are about 10 to 20% cheaper over there, but I didn’t expect *that* much difference!

 

Or you could buy it, after all you're the one who pointed it out not me.

 

Apparently the new P2 out now has adjustable anti skate

 

Nice, did they also change the VTA adjustment?
Because from what I’ve heard changing spacers is quite a hassle.

 

Provided it is direct drive. Other companies (even Japanese) built far better belt drives.

 

I’m not the OP, I don’t need a ‘table as far as you know, and I’m not on a $500 budget.

Are you feeling okay?
.

 

I’m looking for the best possible sound and prefer a belt drive table. The LP120 and its ridiculous pre amp issue is preventing getting the the best out of my system. From the reviews I’ve read it seems like there are tables superior to mine in the $500-near $600 range.

 

Does the RT 85 compare to the Rega P1? (The p2 is stretching my budget a bit- unless I can find a Black Friday sale)

 

The new Debut Carbon Evo is a fantastic sounding deck, I love mine.

 

Yes, it's best to get an external phono preamp, so take some additional costs in mind.
As a temporary solution, you can open up your atlp120 and remove the built in preamp and connect it to an external one.
Do you like to have a good cartridge included with the turntable or do you want to be able to choose/use your own?
Because the Fluance RT85 has a very nice Ortofon Blue included, but that's a money waste if you already have a good one or don't like the Ortofon sound.
I believe the RT83 is the same, but with the cheaper Ortofon 2M Red cartridge.

 

$500 is not enough to buy s decent TT new these days. So I'd recommend looking in the used market. Something along the lines of a Thorens TD-160 would be what I would recommend.

 

Their BD's were also highly durable so I would not rule one out.

 

The preference is to already have one installed, which makes the RT85 an appealing option. All good on phono stage with my sprout 100

Regarding the pre amp removal- I’m not technically inclined so not an option for me.

 

I don't have first hand experience with the P1.

 

This thread brings up an interesting dilemma for those who are looking to upgrade a turntable. It is hard to figure out where the balance is between table, arm, and cartridge. Comparing TTs is super hard. The OP mentions a $500 budget and some folks talk $700 - $1000 as a good budget for a table. Where does a cartridge fall in there, though? Is a $500 cartridge on a $500 table better than a $250 cartridge on a $750 table? Would they be best off with a higher end cartridge on their current deck for their money? What is the point where the upgrade to the cart outpaces the TT? Are there certain TTs that are better as a base for doing further upgrades such as upgraded arms? I'm not in the immediate market for a new TT, but I go through the thought process of how to figure out when to upgrade what.

 

That statement means nothing.
You would need to quantify that statement with at least some at least semi factual information about what cartridge on either deck and how they were setup and compared, etc.
I think those old HK tts can be nice, but I think they have low mass arms which is fine, if you put a high compliance cart on it then it should sound fine.
I had an old Technics SL-D3
that I had snagged at a thrift store for 30$ that was made sometime between 1978 and 1980, the platter mat was ossified and one hinge attachment on the lid broke from being brittle. The lid still worked fine as did the rest of the deck as is.
I threw an old mat from an old Sony on there and mounted an old Audio Technica 140lc cart on an old headshell (I have no idea of hours on the cart and everything involved here was thrift store sourced) and mounted it with a Technics overhang gauge.
It sounded awesome, even though it was a high compliance cart with unknown hrs on it.
Test #2 was a cheapy headshell and a grimy looking beater Empire cart (ltd 200 I think) and that while not as nice actually sounded excellent, I sold the table with that cart mounted and the buyer and I were both very happy.

I just think that suggesting that one vintage tt sounds better than another is useless information without some idea given as to how they were compared and what parameters for deciding gave one or the other the edge.
If the OP wants belt drive, maybe dig up a vintage, used Musichall MMF-5, which is actually excellent for the money and has an excellent bang for the buck aspect as opposed to what Pro-ject or Musichall markets at that price now (the MMF-5 actually has a decent arm for the price).
Or go for the Fluance.
If it were me I would get a (and get over the belt drive thing) lightly used Pioneer PLX-1000, or save a pile of dough and just get a decent condition Technics 1200 SL D3 which can be gotten for around 200-300$, I had a hard time rationalizing even selling the one I had because it worked so well!

 

They use the DC motor. And that Matsushita DC motor sometimes fails. The older Pioneer and CEC belt drives use AC motor, which is far more reliable and maintainable. When the DC motor is good, the Technics is good. Technics never offered or sold a AC motor belt drive in the USA.

 

This is pretty much how I see things. Anything sold new for under $700 is starter turntable. There a better starter turntables and they do cost more than the lesser ones. The $600 turntable is sound better than a $300, but, not a lot better.

But you take a huge jump in overall quality (in terms of the signal being outputted to the phono stage) once you jump to those that start at $750 or so. So, if you're going to stick with the $500 budget, buy a used one that originally sold in the $1000 price range. I made the jump from a Music Hall MMF-2 to the Rega P3-2000. The Rega was noticeably better. I'm not even use the P1 & P2 were in production 2000. But, I wouldn't have even considered them. The price difference is worth saving a few extra dollars over a few paycheck. The way I see it, if you can afford a $500 turntable, you can afford $1000 turntable. The buyer just might have to save a bit longer.

The turntable I bought to replace the P3-2000 was the P5. And they don't really make this class of turntables. By current Rega design standards, the P5 was a hybrid to what they are currently doing. I would be like selling a Planar 3 with Planar 8's tonearm. The Planar 6, and this dates back to the RP6 when Rega went with even numbers for their higher tiers, is just a souped up Planar 3. Still, I really don't think the P5 is hugely better than the P3-2000. The difference is very subtle. The P5 sounds more refined, probably similar to buying a $300 turntable then getting a $600 turntable. But there is huge difference in jumping that $1000ish class turntable from those $300 starter decks. The $1000 price point is that sweet spot for turntables that are well-built and designed.

 

Opinions are all over the place, of course, and one can get shamed around here for the wrong one, but Ty Pendlebury of cnet had a couple of interesting comparative opinions in his Evo review:

Pro-Ject Debut Carbon EVO review: Audiophile features spin vinyl joy

Ian the video reviewer from post #5 of the thread has a rather strong opinion about a Planar 1 vs an RT84. You could plop on some 'phones and see if you agree.

 

Additional question- as mentioned in my original post, I’m not technically inclined to remove the preamp on my LP120.

If I do not make the mod, will getting a stylus upgrade make a audible difference worth spending for? Id probably look to upgrade to an Ortofon Blue or a VM540ml (or something else in that price range). Not looking for stylus advice, per se.
Thanks

 

Move to an european country, here there are a lot of old Thorens tables in perfect conditions still at a reasonable price, and with 35euros standard expedition, you will experience a real huge upgrade

 

I had an LP120X and upgraded to a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB. BIG difference. But I’d say splurge and go for the X1 or X2. Probably would be the last turntable you would ever need. I bought my X2 a couple of months ago and it is my endgame table. Love it!

 

The P2 (with RB251 arm) was but the P1 (with RB100 arm) didn't appear until 2005, at which point the P2 ceased production.

The current Planar 2 and RB220 arm date from 2016, with anti-skate on the RB220 restored from September 2020.

 

Turntables are simple, antiquated devices. If you can’t get a decent one for 500 bucks then it’s time for a new hobby. Next week I’m picking up a Pro-ject Debut Carbon Evo for my 18-year-old son’s first table.