Unanswered Beatles questions ?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George Blair, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. No Bull

    No Bull Forum Resident

    Did The Beatles record a fast version of Revolution because Jumping Jack Flash was a super up-tempo Stones single?
     
  2. Celebrated Summer

    Celebrated Summer Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    From what I remember from various books, Paul and George felt the slow version wasn't appropriate for a single, so John came up with a super-aggressive arrangement. Geoff Emerick helped by devising the overdriven guitar sound.

    A year later, P&G would give another thumbs down to John, this time nixing "Cold Turkey" as a single. I assume it's not a good sign when the band you founded starts rejecting your single ideas, and I think all this helped push John into his "I want a divorce" mode.

    That said, I'm definitely sure they had their eye on what the Stones were doing, even if John felt the Stones were copying the Beatles' ideas "three months later."
     
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  3. xilef regnu

    xilef regnu Forum Resident

    Location:
    PNW
    Did Paul ever serenade the other 3 with "We Can Work It Out" when they were breaking up and would they have thrown things at him if he did?

     
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  4. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I hear no notable musical similarity between the two songs. The fact that they are both uptempo is hardly significant, as it's a trait they share with dozens of other hit songs from roughly the same time period. One could just as easily ask "were the Stones inspired to do the uptempo "Jumpin' Jack Flash" because the Beatles released the uptempo "Lady Madonna"?
     
  5. Lord Hawthorne

    Lord Hawthorne Currently Untitled

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    My guess is the woman saying "this is so weird" is one of the Mike Samms Singers, who did the "oompah, oompah, stick it up your jumper" and "got one, got one, everybody's got one" parts in the background. They were very conventional commercial singers, mostly singing on advertisements, and I think it was George Martin who told of them a bit befuddled by what they were instructed to sing and especially the manner they were directed to sing it.
     
  6. Yovra

    Yovra Forum Enthusiast

    He was (as in other songs, like Things We Said Today and Here, There And Everywhere) reacting to the ups and downs of his relationship with Jane Asher.
     
  7. MitchLT

    MitchLT Custom Entitled

    Agreed! It’s clearly stated by Paul that they are a ‘completely different set of individuals’, and it is ‘their’ choices for the famous people on the Sgt Pepper cover.

    So there must be some names floating about
     
  8. Panther

    Panther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    I think, to me, the most interesting Beatle-related question is what the heck tape/recording/acetate/whatever did Brian Epstein have circa January-February 1962 when he met George Martin (EMI having rejected his endeavors already one time at the end of '61).

    The conventional story is that Brian had a recording of the Decca "audition" that he was hawking around to labels, and maybe this is so (it seems to have been that recording that prompted the publishers, Ardmore & Beechwood, to want to publish a Lennon/McCartney original, which, in a circuitous way, is how EMI allowed a Beatles original -- "Love Me Do" -- to grace the first single).

    The problem with this story is that comments by Lennon in 1963-64 (with the memory of it still fresh in his mind) and the detailed comments by George Martin to (I think) Melody Maker in 1971 totally contradict that. I believe there was another, professional-quality recording of The Beatles made in late 1961, or the first days of 1962, which Epstein had at that time.
     
  9. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Zack Island
    The Beatles recorded at Decca on New Year's Day 1962 and these tapes were shown around several record labels in London afterwards, not in the end of 1961.
    On June 6th 1962 they recorded at EMI the first time, so that means George Martin received the Decca tapes shortly before that. The time span is not too long between the Decca and first EMI recordings.
     
  10. Panther

    Panther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    I'm well aware of that. What point are you contradicting?
     
  11. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Zack Island
    I mean they were busy doing gigs all the time. Why another recording session when the Decca one wasn't too long ago?
    (Btw I was reworking my previous post a bit)
     
  12. numer9

    numer9 Beatles Apologist

    Location:
    Philly Burbs
    Beaky, Mick & Tich
     
  13. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Zack Island
    Well, Paul could be Sgt. Pepper himself. And the other two are Lucy and Rita.
     
  14. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    There is no other professional studio recordings of the Beatles (pre-EMI), other than the Decca tapes and of course the 1961 set of Polydor recordings. I think the issue is whether Epstein hawked around reel-to-reel tape or acetates at the time. What did John say in 1963/4 that is different than this account? Ron
     
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  15. bherbert

    bherbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Africa
    My question is - why are the mono mixes of Help! and Revolver so muddy and dirty sounding? Were these albums recorded very quickly? What happened to the quality control? Hard Days Night, MMT, Rubber Soul and Pepper all have much better mono mixes to my ears.
     
  16. Lord Hawthorne

    Lord Hawthorne Currently Untitled

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Somewhere I read that Brian Epstein had a few of the Decca songs pressed onto disc, because he discovered that all of the A&R men had record players in their offices, not tape decks.
     
  17. Panther

    Panther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    Okay, this is what I am talking about:

    In Love Me Do: The Beatles' Progress (1964) by Michael Braun, John says something interesting. He makes his comment to Braun about "when we made our first recording"... but actually he is ignoring Germany and talking about the Decca audition. Anyway, he says how Paul "sounded like a woman" and that he "sounded like a madman" (these quotes have been seen frequently, and for example appear somewhere in Tune In). This description by John fits the Decca audition recording perfectly, as Paul does indeed sound like a woman on some songs (and generally, performed rather poorly) while John didn't have a good day either.

    But then John says: "By the time we made our demos of 'Hello, Little Girl' and 'Love of the Loved' we were okay, I think."

    What's he referring to here? Lewisohn's take on it is that the Decca audition is the "demo" of 'Love of the Loved' (and maybe 'Hello Little Girl') that EMI staff liked and recommended to Ardmore & Beechwood in early spring 1962. But John's comment seems to suggest that the Decca recording and the "demos" that got The Beatles an audience with George Martin are two different things. Of course, he could just be mis-remembering... but he's saying this only 18 months after the fact.

    In addition, there's also the Tony Meehan reference, from John and Paul, with regards to paying Meehan to do a recording session to be released by Decca. John says they paid him to record a tape.

    On top of that, we have the 1971 Melody Maker interview with George Martin. Martin tells MM that Brian Epstein was hawking "tapes" around to labels:

    MM: Can you remember the songs on that tape?

    MARTIN: No ... I can remember "Your Feets Too Big" was one of them. There was a motley collection -- I think possibly "Love Me Do" was on it, but I'm not sure. Certainly the songs didn't knock me out -- in fact I wasn't knocked out at all. In defence of all those people who turned it down, it was a pretty lousy tape, recorded in a back room, very badly balanced, not very good songs, and a rather raw group.

    So, what's he talking about here? The Beatles didn't play "Your Feet's Too Big" for Decca, nor was the recording in any way "badly balanced". Most tellingly, as it was recorded in a professional London studio, how could it be "recorded in a back room"? Even granting that Martin is almost surely wrong about "Love Me Do" being on it, could his memory be so faulty just 9 years later? And John's just 18 months later?
     
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  18. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I don't think he's suggesting they are two different things. His complete comments are:
    "I remember when we made our first recording. We didn't sound natural. Paul sang "Til There Was You" and he sounded like a woman. I sang "Money" and I sounded like a madman. By the time we made our demos of "Hello Little Girl" and "Love of the Loved" we were okay I think."

    It sounds like he is talking about the course of one single session. He is saying that they started out ragged, but by the time they got towards the end they were doing okay.
     
  19. Panther

    Panther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    That's possible, I suppose. It never occurred to me, though, because it sounds to me like he's talking about two different sessions. Also, I never heard one of The Beatles refer to the Decca thing as "demos".
     
  20. NYSPORTSFAN

    NYSPORTSFAN Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york, newyork
    I noticed The Rolling Stones a year later did a similar thing with "Honky Tonk Woman" and "Country Honk".
     
  21. NYSPORTSFAN

    NYSPORTSFAN Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york, newyork
    I have many.

    Paul singing lead on a unreleased out take of "I Want You" (She's So Heavy)?
    Is there a twenty seven minute version of "Helter Skelter"?
    Why did the Beatles scrap the very psychedelic sounding outtake of "Norwegian Wood"?
     
  22. numer9

    numer9 Beatles Apologist

    Location:
    Philly Burbs
    1. It's not Paul
    3. They didn't like it
     
  23. applejam101

    applejam101 Humble Fan

    Location:
    NYC, NY, USA
    But Paul sings lead on I Want You on January 30th, just not the one from February that has been going around.
     
  24. NumberEight

    NumberEight Came too late and stayed too long

    Why don’t we do it in the road?
     
  25. applejam101

    applejam101 Humble Fan

    Location:
    NYC, NY, USA
    Because you could get run over.
     
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