Unreleased 6/6/1962 Beatles EMI Session Tape, Geoff Emerick*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by iDigital, Jun 13, 2020.

  1. Tom Daniels

    Tom Daniels Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona
    I feel for Pete as well, timing wise. But the timing was the whole point. It wasn’t a coincidence that it happened then.

    They were ambitious. They had made a lot of progress with Pete in the band. He wasn’t a great fit, musically or personality wise, but he wasn’t holding them back at the Cavern or the Star Club.

    Then, suddenly, he was. They wanted to be recording artists. They talked about not wanting to have one band in the studio and one on the road. They wanted to play as a group. If he wasn’t good enough to play in the studio, he wasn’t good enough to be Beatle. Their had was forced. They had to make a move they probably knew they had to for months, but didn’t want to.
     
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  2. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Yes, I'm very open to the possibility that Geoff completely forgot all about the tape that he "saved". And it was only found after his death.
     
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  3. Dr.O'Boogie

    Dr.O'Boogie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Thailand
    They were opportunists, Pete had a drum kit, they had been offered a stint of several months in Hamburg, They were teenagers dreaming of making a living via their passion. Who at that age would have had the integrity to say no and lose the booking?

    I feel for Pete too, he was used, they never really wanted him but he was their only real option at the time. (What was it? 3 days notice?)
     
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  4. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Supposedly, it was only 1 day's notice!! They asked him to join the day before they were set to leave for Hamburg.

    I wonder: What would they have done if Pete said "no"? Who else would have agreed to be their drummer and leave immediately for Hamburg?
     
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  5. Dr.O'Boogie

    Dr.O'Boogie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Thailand
    Indeed.
     
  6. Dr.O'Boogie

    Dr.O'Boogie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Thailand
    There was that letter that surfaced 10 years ago or so, they had advertised in the local press for another drummer(Apparently) and Paul(I think) sent a letter to a respondent. So perhaps they had more notice than is generally acknowledged?

    Either way they needed a drummer and fast.
     
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  7. Dr.O'Boogie

    Dr.O'Boogie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Thailand
    IMO that‘s where the real Revelations are , in between the words that are actually said.
     
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  8. wodence

    wodence Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indianapolis
    This part has always kinda confused me. The old narrative seemed to be that George Martin told Brian after the June 6 session that Pete's drumming wasn't good enough for recording, that they could keep him for live performances, but George would use a session drummer for recording. But when they come for the next session (Sept 4), no session drummer. Did Brian maybe inform him that they had changed drummers, and George M was willing to give the new guy a chance?
     
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  9. RAJ717

    RAJ717 Forum Resident

    I guess he was just having a bad day when recorded in the studio as he sounds lifeless and lost. The BBC live stuff doesn't jump out as exciting drumming either. Compare the BBC Best drumming after 2 years in the band to the Star Club Ringo drumming 6 months later and you will hear a huge difference. I admit that in the studio, Ringo wasn't much better than Pete until the first album sessions in Feb '63.
     
  10. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    I know you like to be exact, Arnie, so I'll remind you it wasn't a Monty Python skit, it was written by Tim Brooke-Taylor (who sadly died of Covid 19 this year) and Marty Feldman and first broadcast on "At Last the 1948 Show" on Rediffusion TV in 1967:

     
  11. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC




    "Only"??? I'd call 25 session missing reels a major loss.
     
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  12. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Gently weeping guitarist.

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    Ringo suffered from nerves at his first session. He sailed through recording How Do You Do It, and did very good. Already here his versatility was apparent. But when it came to Love Me Do, he struggled because they did the instrumental track first. They did however get good takes, and the Ringo version was released on the single. But the composer of HDYDI withdrew the song and they were left with only one releasable song. Add to that Ringo had a moment of madness, attempting to play percussion and drums at once. This was reported to Martin who lost his patience and hired Andy White for the next session so they could get that darn single released.

    They wiped the slate clean with the recording of Please Please Me, and Martin thought highly of Ringos drumming everafter.

    Epstein held a meeting with Martin after Love Me Do reached no 17 in the charts. Epstein made it clear that the other three and him did NOT want session drummers. He was selling them as a selfcontained vocal AND instrumental group. Martin agreed and in turn surprised Epstein with the idea that they should record an album. Unheard of for a group that had only released one single. The idea was to record them at the Cavern. So clearly also Martin abandoned the idea of session drummers for the Beatles. They could hardly have used a session drummer on a live recording at their home venue.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  13. SebUK

    SebUK Forum Resident

    well I never knew that, you can really learn something new every day!
     
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  14. Dr.O'Boogie

    Dr.O'Boogie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Thailand
    What can I say? I never heard Pete live with The Beatles but I have heard what still exists. Regardless, “The Beatles” weren’t happy with him as their drummer. Personally I think he was ‘used’ but I still think The Beatles made the ‘right’ decision in leaving him behind.

    Perhaps we are both on the same side of the argument, that history made the ‘correct’ decision?
    I think it’s still possible to think that Pete Best is under appreciated in terms of his role in The Beatles’ history and acknowledge that Ringo was a far better drummer without there being any contradiction
     
  15. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    My point was it's very small in the context of the total amount of reels, most of which still exist in the archive.

    And Emerick likely doesn't have any other than the one we know about anyway.
     
  16. goodiesguy

    goodiesguy Confide In Me

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I blame James Garner for all this.....
     
  17. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Since we're being precise, it should be noted that the sketch was co-written by all four members of the 1948 Show cast... Cleese and Chapman were involved in the writing too.
     
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  18. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    The November 1962 session for Please Please Me is where Ringo first demonstrated his abilities. His drumming on the track is fantastic, much better even than what Andy White did on the song, and certainly better than anything Pete could have done.
     
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  19. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    Some of the September sessions confusion comes from the Anthology interviews. George Martin and Ringo both talk about Andy White being the drummer for Ringo's first session, which is incorrect. Martin embellishes the faulty memory:

    When Ringo came to the session for the first time nobody told me that he was coming. I had already booked Andy White, and I told Brian Epstein I was going to do this. I said 'I just want the three others and that's fine.' Ringo turns up expecting to play. I said 'Well, now I've been bitten once, I'm not going to have that. I don't even know who you are. We're going to have Andy White, thank you very much.'

    And Ringo seems to think White played on the single but he played just as well on the album, which is backward.
     
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  20. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    No offense to Spencer Leigh, but there is no mystery to "get to the bottom" of. Pete was told at the time that he was fired because of his drumming. Everyone involved has always said it was because of his drumming. And we have ample recorded evidence that his drumming was substandard.

    I don't believe Epstein would mentioned the pregnancy because Pete has never said that he did, and it would have been cruel of Epstein to cite that as a reason when it was not actually a reason for the firing.
     
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  21. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    He was actually holding them back in a live setting, and they knew it. When Ringo was inducted into the HOF, McCartney gave an interview in which he talked about the first time Ringo sat in with them, filling in for Pete. He says they were essentially gobsmacked at how much better they sounded with Ringo.
     
  22. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Thank you! I see some Pythons in that skit.
     
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  23. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Gently weeping guitarist.

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    As George said: “everytime Ringo sat in [if Pete called in sick] it felt like THIS IS IT”.

    No more needs to be said. Most people that’s been in a band know that feeling.
     
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  24. johnny moondog 909

    johnny moondog 909 Beatles-Lennon & Classic rock fan

    There's probably 3 or 4 other guys waiting to see how it turns out, before acknowledging they have tapes too !
     
  25. Tom Daniels

    Tom Daniels Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona
    If all goes well, they will be releasing a double disc of The Stolen Tapes.
     

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