I do think it really depends on what you like. I have a $1k external pre, and I wouldn't say it's better--just different (warmer).
In 1970, while still 18 years old, I liked visiting a store on Long Island called Lafayette Radio Electronics, where I'd listen to demos comparing speakers that included the KLH models 5 & 6, along with Acoustic Research models AR-2ax, AR-5, & even the famed AR-3a, that was beyond my means, but to my ears, sounded somewhat dull & muted, compared to the 2 KLHs, anyway. I really liked the KLH 5, but wondered if my ears had played tricks on me, as the lower priced KLH 6 often seemed to sound better than the KLH 5. But a KLH ad in Stereo review seemed to clear up that mystery for me. In the ad, Henry Kloss stated that due to the careful octave to octave balancing of the sound spectrum that he'd achieved with the KLH 6, he felt that the 6 sounded very good on a wider variety of musical material, than any other speaker available to consumers, including KLH's OWN more expensive models. And a part of that ad that's always stayed with me was it's sub-heading "Why a moderately priced speaker is the yardstick for our entire line." And BTW in an old 1976 issue of High Fidelity (which unfortunately, my wife threw out) as part of a series on the "Pioneers of Audio", Henry Kloss was interviewed, and when the subject of speakers came up, he mentioned his days at KLH, and I clearly remember a sentence that the interviewer wrote: Kloss pointed with pride to the KLH Model 6 that he'd personally designed, as being one time he'd gotten a speaker's voicing just right, which accounted for why people who were fans of many different types of music, liked the 6 so much. (BTW, the 1970 retail price of the KLH 5 was $179.95 a speaker, later increasing $189.95 & the KLH 6 stayed at its $134.00 price) In 1970, through fortunate circumstances, I managed to buy a pair of KLH 6 speakers, but always wished I could have also afforded to have added a pair of KLH 5s to my sound room, because the original KLH 5s were also nicely balanced, easy to live with, units. Sorry to say Mr Kloss, a true genius, died in Jan. 2002, but even then, he was already gone from KLH (the company he co-founded, and where he'd designed the KLH 5 & 6 speakers) for more than 3 decades, since leaving KLH in 1968, after he'd founded Advent. Anyway, IMO, Kloss was a genius, just due to his great skill at speaker design, including his knowledge of the most critical design choices to make, that gave him an ability to take some materials of a given cost, and then develop a high performance speaker using those materials, which would be a product that would sound better than what most speaker designers could come up with when using materials which had cost them 3 times as much! And I respectfully disagree that Henry had a reputation for spending large amounts of money to promote products, as his marketing philosophy was to carefully assemble a network of high quality audio dealers, who specialized in giving comprehensive audio demos, so that his products like the original Advent Loudspeaker & Advent's cassette deck (the first deck to have Dolby B Noise Reduction), could create a lot of excitement among prospective buyers, while also generating terrific word of mouth among sound enthusiasts. Henry's ads were just one pagers, in black & white, in places like Stereo Review, which had tiny circulations by magazine standards. In fact, when his company, Advent, happened to have a newspaper article written about it, that article revealed that before Advent had even done ANY national advertising for its original Advent Loudspeaker, that unit was already the best selling speaker of 1970 in the U.S. And I could easily believe that after personally experiencing how astonished that customers were in quality audio stores like Harvey Sound, as well as in Long Island's Designatron Audio store, when those folks would compare the Advent to speakers costing 2, 3, or 4 times the Advent's price, and they still ended up preferring the sound of Mr Kloss's baby! Actually, many customers seemed to be torn between choosing the KLH 5 or the Advent, while not being too impressed by notably more pricey speakers like the AR-3a. I vividly remember all of the excitement that surrounded the in store demonstrations of the Advent Loudspeaker, when that product was introduced in March and April 1970, throughout the chain of Harvey Sound stores. Well experienced listeners were just stunned that such a modestly priced speaker of the large bookshelf size class, could equal or surpass the renowned AR-3a loudspeaker in every major area of performance, at half the AR-3a's price. I myself was someone who agreed with certain reviewers who'd pointed to the famous AR-3a as being somewhat muted in its highs, but sure deserving of its reputation for having very deep & clean bass, that few speakers of any size or price could match. But then here was the Advent (later known as the Large Advent, when Mr Kloss introduced a smaller version) suddenly being able to match the AR-3a note for note in the bass, while the Advent also had a better balanced sound than the AR-3a, at least IMO, as well as in the opinions of my friends BTW, in the early Spring of 1970, the original Advent Loudspeaker was introduced at the amazing price of $112.00 per speaker, but several months later, when the "Utility" version of the speaker, with vinyl simulating a walnut finish, was introduced at $102.00, the original version, in its oiled walnut veneer, then went up a "whole" 4 bucks, so the original Advent unit was then priced at $116.00, a price it kept for 4 years, before going "all the way" up to $121.00 for the original model, while the vinyl clad utility model was raised in price to $107.00 BUT, no authorized Advent dealer would give you even a ONE dollar discount off the price of the Advents. Since those stores didn't need to resort to price cutting to move tons of Advent speakers, because sound enthusiasts who were in the know, like yours truly, all told friends & family that the Advents were the biggest bargain in home audio. Meanwhile, the then top speaker from Acoustic Research, its famous AR-3a, before 1970 was over, was regularly being featured on sale at prices in the 180s per speaker, though the AR-3a's suggested retail price was $250.00 a speaker. Guess Henry & Advent really cut Acoustic Research sales! BTW, fellow audio enthusiasts, just joined your fascinating forum today, and I sincerely hope that my overly long-winded, first post above, with all of the detail I crammed into it from my personal history regarding speakers, did not put too many of you to sleep.
I’ve heard the Model Five numerous times, although I’ve never owned a pair, and I’ve restored a pair of Model Sixes and lived with them for about three years. Perhaps my opinion is not as valid as those who have owned both sets of speakers, but I have a strong preference for the Sixes. It could very well be that the Model Fives I’ve heard had old crossover capacitors, and the woofers were not doped to be soundproof, or that they were driven by amplifiers that needed work in rooms that were not acoustically ideal, but the Sixes are stills my favorite KLH speaker. I’m glad to hear that Henry agreed with me and thought so highly of them, too.
If you listen to digital source your DAC is super important. I had a Gustard A22 and a Denafrips Ares 2. The Gustard was supper sharp, very holographic. But I could only listen to 1 or 2 albums. The ares 2 made it a bit more relaxed. Bass was a bit slower/less. But I did enjoy my listening sessions. Less fatiguing. However, I just got a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE and that completely transformed my system. No more sharp sounds. Holographic to the point where I have to place the model 5s into the room more. Bass is more powerful and I don’t have to push the volume as high as I did. Even at low volumes the KLH Model 5 bass is just great. Where I use to play the dial knob at 12p/ 11am to get the bass and sound I wanted now I go to 9am and 11am to really loud. I had no idea a DAC is that important in a system.
I just got a blueSound NODE as an eArc and streamer to the Spring 3. It works. I’m getting an external power supply for the NODE to “see” if it makes a difference.
I second that. I really love the HD1-DAC with the 5s. I like the Ares 2, but didn't fall in love with it. The Marantz has an analog sound that I really like (no sharp edges or fatigue). I also think because the 5s are transparent all changes in the chain are very discernible. I hear massive differences between amps, cartridges, phono pres, and, to a lesser degree, my DACs. (I don't have a multi-thousand dollar DAC, though; maybe that would change my experience.)
I had a few entry level phono stages—Mani, Moon, Lehman, even a DSP Parks puffin Phono. The most “expensive” phono pre I owned was a Pass Labs XP15. The parks is by far the most interesting, and the XP 15 was the most “audiophile” but it’s not outright “better” then the internal phono stage in the AS2200/3200. So I am not “kidding myself “ when I say that the internal phono stage in the AS2200 is fantastic for an internal phono stage. I’ve actually owned and I’ve listened to these and not just “heard” others claim of the superiority of a $1k phono stage. But honestly, it’s just music. And it’s just electronics. All I’m saying is that the AS2200 is a fantastic integrated Amplifier in my system, in my room and to my taste. But that does not mean that you or anyone else will have my same experience. I don’t have a dedicated listening room. That might be the reason I wasn’t that impressed with the XP15, and why I am happy with the internal phono pre in my AS2200. I happy and I’m lucky that I’m content with my system now. Good luck in your hifijourney
What speakers did you do your comparisons? You mentioned the Lehman... was it a Black Cube II SE? Because that is a terrific unit. If you can't hear a substantial improvement in sound going from the onboard phono pre to the Black Cube II then something is missing in your system in my opinion (or the settings were off). I love the KLH 5's. They are a fun listen and a sound I could live with. But they are not the most revealing speaker.
What would be considered the minimum distance to front wall in order for Model 5 to perform well (given the fact it is an acoustic suspension design)?
Very surprised to hear you say that. I think they're very revealing while remaining linear and musical, which is one of my favorite aspects of their sound.
I keep mine quite tight to the front wall, way closer than any other speaker I have owned. Zero boom or bloat. This was one of the major reasons I purchased them. My new listening space does not allow for pulling the speakers very far out into the room, as this is basically where we walk through the space to our bathroom and bedrooms.
I had never heard of that HD1-DAC. I've been considering an Ares 2 but going to look at that HD1-DAC. Might actually be able to serve as a pre to my power amp as well except I need a phono input...
People are really high on the Ares 2, so I expected nothing short of angels singing when I got it. I like it ok, but I think it has a flat delivery with a touch of warmth. It doesn't sound dynamic or exciting to me. Still not quite sure what all the fuss is about, TBH. The Marantz has more body and sounds a lot more energetic and analog to me.
Although I did like the original KLH Model Fives, I was happy to obtain a pair of KLH Model Sixes instead. Because in 1969 and early 1970, during multiple visits to Long Island's old Lafayette Radio Electronics store, I heard many direct A-B comparisons between the two speakers, with them playing music ranging from rock, folk, and jazz, to classical music played by the New York Philharmonic Orchestra. And in at least 3 out of 4 comparisons, the KLH 6, to my ears, simply seemed to be better balanced. Then, over a year after I got my pair of KLH Sixes in 1970, in October of 1971, I bought a pair of the original Advent speakers. And though the KLH Sixes had never seemed to be at all lacking in bass, compared to the KLH Fives, the Advents left no doubt that they extended deeper into the bass than the KLH Sixes. But I loved how the two pairs of speakers worked so well together, with each pair being driven by its own Dynaco SCA-80 integrated amplifier. And I also used an AR turntable (with Shure's top cartridge), for spinning my LPs. Of course the KLH 6 and the original Advent speaker were both designed by Henry Kloss, so maybe I shouldn't have been surprised about how well blended of a sound that was achieved by having the Advents up front (at ear level), with the KLH Sixes in the rear, also at ear level. Among my group of friends, my audio system became legendary. And my best friend, who later became a doctor in internal medicine, spent a long time in my sound room, doing A-B comparisons between the Advents and the KLH Sixes, before finally going out and buying a pair of KLH Sixes, as he just felt they were better balanced, even if Stereophile Magazine was then saying that the Advent probably added less coloration of its own to sound than any speaker its reviewer had heard. But as we know, many folks don't prefer a speaker that's accurate & analytical sounding, and I had to agree that the KLH 6's sound had a little warmth that was very pleasing. And, I couldn't have been prouder when a friend home from Albany State University, for Christmas, told me he'd visited the large home of a wealthy college buddy who had an elaborate audio system that cost ten times what my very moderate cost audio rig, had. Yet, my friend insisted that my setup simply sounded better, while providing detail & dynamics that easily matched the pricey setup.
Anyone tried the Rotel RA-1592 MKII with Model 5's. I had a disappointing experience with an older Rotel but this seems to get rave reviews and has lots of power.
Yes it was the Cube 2 among other entry level phono stages like the mani and moon. At the time I believe i had entry level speakers like Elac Unifi, focal 806 and a few others. I used a Prima Luna integrated amp to power them. By the time I came to the XP15 I believe I had Heresy 4. I don’t think the bottle neck was my system but my room. I don’t have a dedicated listening room nor do I use room treatment other then stuff that fills my living room. My room however is dampen pretty good with furniture, curtains and rug. Echo is not an issue. But my room is small and odd shaped which I know contributes to poor imaging and soundstage or at least I know it could be better. This is why I believe that the internal phono pre is great for what you get in an integrated amplifier in the Yamaha as2200.
The Ares 2 is an excellent entry into the Denafrips world. To get the best out of your Ares 2 make sure your speakers are set up properly to reproduce what the Ares 2 can do. The ares 2 has a big soundstage and imaging is top notch. Where the Ares lacks is in the bass. Also if your unit is newish give it some hours and make sure to never turn off the unit. Also play around with the filters I used oversAmpling with the short filter. THe Ares 2 and a tube amp should melt your brain when you play Tool, Chocolate Chip Trip. But again, R2r technology is not for everyone. If you like Chip based dacs then You know what you like.
I’ve been playing with distance and it works good with at least 12inches from wall. I have placed them 3feet into my room and imaging and soundstage is just amazing. Drummer is clearly in the back and singer is always dead center. Guitars are mostly coming out of the speakers. It’s really amazing to see how these image and soundstage the more you take them out from the wall.
I don't favor any particular topology. I tried it on a few systems, and just found it kind of forgettable. Nothing wrong with it, of course, but not very exciting or interesting to me.
To my ears, the internal phono preamps in the A-S2100 and 2200 are both better than the Copla by a wide margin in both fidelity and lower noise. To step up from the Yamaha's internal phono preamp, I think the best directions to consider are the Lehmann Black Cube SEII, Trichord Dino, and the iFi Phono 3, among a few others.
Anyone have a Luxman, Arcam, Hegel or Pass amp paired with their Model 5's? If so, can you please share your experience.. Thanks
Bumping the above and more specifically wondering if the Luxman class A 2o/40 watt l550-axii would be able to drive the KLH 5? I’m currently doing a home audition with the 5s and a Yamaha A-S2200. There is a lot I like with this combo however for some reason as mentioned here and Andrew Robinson’s A-S3200 review the Yamaha just can’t get the best out of the 5s bass. Not sure why this is but looking for a better match to hear full potential of the 5’s. Interestingly the same A-S2200 fully drives the Linton’s bass. Any first hand experience feedback would be appreciated..
That's been my experience with the AS1200 and 5s. Beautiful detail, etc, and it sounds good overall, especially guitar, but not full bodied. Probably because neither the 5s nor the AS series do the midrange bump (like the Lintons do, for instance). Subs help but it still feels a little hollow to me. I think the 5s sound better and fuller with warmer amps/chains.
It's a case of mid range suck out. The Linton's are likely more linear. I think a lot of people like the smiley face EQ because they get more treble and bass subjectively which impresses. Not seen the curve on these but a dip in the midrange would be concerning as this is where the meat in the music is. Maybe Linton's err in the other direction a bit.
Lintons definitely have a midrange bump. I think that's why some people think they lack detail. But the detail is definitely there. It's just not as obvious as it is when the midrange is recessed.
