Upgrade from HD 650?

Neat! You've got a nice 300B amp. Would be wonderful to hear how that amp sounds driving headphones.

Are you planning on doing a balanced headphone only version of the Robinette Box? That would be the way I'd want to go. That way you don't have to worry about whether an amp can handle a bridged ground. A balanced only (4-pin XLR) version of a Robinette Box with a switch to enable or disable the resistor network would be a neat way to go. All of the headphones I have (or plan to get) that I'd want to use with a box like that have balanced cables.

Planar magnetic headphones can sound particularly neat connected directly to the speaker taps without resistors. A version of the Robinette Box that is balanced (4-pin XLR) and bypassing the resistors. You just need to be careful with the volume knob. Because it can be easy to fry the headphones doing that. Herb Reichert explores that here: The Problem With Loudspeakers

I haven't been able to hear headphones connected directly to the speaker taps of a 300B amp yet. I want to. 300B is a neat headphone sound (but the tubes are soooo expensive). I have been able to hear a Decware Zen Taboo MKIII with an Audeze LCD-2 connected directly to the speaker taps. Neat! Better than the headphone jack on that amp.

 

I have a Liquid Platinum and it does sell with a US detachable power cord but the power supply is universal and will work just fine in the UK. All you have to do is buy a standard power cord with UK plug and you are set.

 

Yup, it just really seems to make a lot of sense to at least try using my amps. On paper I’d almost feel like I’d be making a large compromise by going with a headphone amp when the 300B amps are sitting right there (but I agree, those tubes are not cheap - it’s something I’ve already come to terms with!).

I’ll definitely be going with the balanced 4-pin XLR version of the Box, but I’m not sure if I will add the switch as mentioned. It would add some versatility but also a potential failure point. Still, I will think about it.

Anyway if it all sounds like crap I can always add a dedicated headphone amp later. My preamp has a set of balanced outputs and two sets of single ended outputs, so it would be easy to incorporate the head amp while still utilizing the front end of my system.

 

I also have and love the HD650's, but I've also been wondering what could be an upgrade.

I'm no expert, but I you could find yourself getting into the world of diminishing returns, where you're paying a lot for an upgrade for subtle improvements.

The only issue I have with the HD 650's is that I find they can become uncomfortable when using them for extended periods.

 

For me the upgrade from the HD600/HD6XX I have at home was the Focal Elex and I think it also fit within your budget. Personally I found the Elex to be as great or even better than the HD600/6XX with female vocals and they create a larger space. Neither the HD nor the Elex are what I would consider "bass heavy" so if you like the the bass of your HD650, chances are you won't be disappointed with the Elex. They are also more comfortable than the HD. This is of course a very subjective impression.

 

Rekindling this thread from last year because I am in exactly the same predicament. The 650s (mine are gussied up with Dekoni hybrid earpads and custom made Mogami wire with Furutech connectors) are so good - and scale so well - they are difficult to replace for <$1,000. I’m using mine with a Burson Soloist amp. Over the past two years, I have tried and, for one reason or another rejected, HiFiMan HE560, Sundara, Ananda (beautiful sounds but too polite - especially the Ananda), Focal Elear (all around disappointing - I found them boring. I have not tried the Elex or Clear, both or which supposedly address my misgivings with the discontinued Elear), Audeze LCD-X (I actually loved these, but the drivers are VERY delicate and I couldn’t justify the price differential over the 650 for gains in bass clarity and losses in both midrange beauty (the 650’s forte, IMHO) and comfort), HD700 (these had some things I loved (superior soundstage and imaging), but ultimately had too much upper midrange emphasis for my taste, even modified, among other things which I’m sure I’m forgetting. OP, or anyone else, did you find your replacement, or are you still with the 650’s (and have you given up the hunt)? I’d spring for the 800S if I could be certain they’d be a good match for my amp (I suspect not), and everything I’ve read says they are cut from a different cloth and will resemble the 700 more than the 650.

NB: head-fi is a great site and a wonderful resource, but the headphones only gang have a different perspective on some of this stuff than old school audio guys, which is why I am posting here. The answer there would certainly be to keep the 650s and get two or three other sets for different applications. I’m looking for the one can to rule them all, and so far I haven’t found a better all-arounder than the 650.

Sorry for the long post, it’s a quiet, early Sunday morning - just me, Mahler and my Sennheisers - and I guess I got carried away.

 

Massdrop (Drop) is doing a HD8xx version of the HD800S.
Info here (Drop link): Drop: Passions lead here

The HD800 series headphones are smoother and tamed in the treble than the HD700. Don't let the HD700 scare you away from the HD800. The HD800 series are neat headphones for classical music. Big headstage that allows the orchestra room to play.

Another option if you want to stay with the HD650 is to get a good tube amp. Good tube amps for the HD650 are going to be somewhat expensive (over $1000). The good tube amps will get the HD650 to have an out of your head style of headstage. Which is neat for classical.

 

I’m primarily a 2 ch guy, but I’ve owned quite a few headphones over the last 15 years. The HD-650 is what I kept. They’re not perfect but it’s likely if you find something that is better in one area, it’ll have a problem in another. As others have mentioned the 650s scale really well. It may seem strange to pair them with a 2-3k amp, but I think the end results are better than spending the same amount on expensive headphones with a moderately expensive amp. See if you can hook up with a local meet to hear something from Eddie Current or DOnald North Audio (DNA).

 

You can get the Focal Clear for $990 at headphones.com right, and you can typically find used pairs in great condition for less than that. Lowest I've seen was $750.

The $990 price is probably one of the best deals in audio right now. I know that's still pricey, but if you're looking in that range already, totally worth it. I had an HD6XX and Sundara before the Clear. Both excellent headphones, especially in terms of price to performance, but the Clear blows them away. And they look and feel exquisite.

 

I agree that $990 deal looks very inviting. The problem is that they are ‘final sale’ and I won’t be able to hear them before I commit and, as stated above, I did NOT enjoy the Elear. Could you be more specific in describing just exactly how the clear blow away the 6xx and Sundara. I am very familiar with both. Thanks.

 

I'm surprised you even liked the 650's running of headphone jacks of integrated amps, even from good brands. I own a pair, and can vouch that they need a lot of power to pierce the "dark veil" they're famous for. I didn't really like them even with a good amp - Bottlehead Crack w/Speedball, which makes the Senn 600's sound sublime.

The veil was finally pierced with the DarkVoice 336SE - an amp than can drive even 600 Ohm cans. They do sound better with that amp, and I can imagine they can sound even better with higher quality amps that can provide a lot of power. I'd say the DarkVoice is the very minimum it needs.

Personally, I see no need for that, as I love the sound of the 600's a lot better - there is no dark veil. Especially when paired with the Crack/Speedball. Something to consider.

 

I'd read enough negative things about the Elear that made me never consider them, their tuning is apparently pretty wonky. The Clear is much more balanced, and would also be another step up in detail and resolution.

I compared the Clears to the HD6XX and Sundara after I got them, so I'll try to go over the differences I heard without waxing too much. To start, you will definitely get better value in price to performance from the HD6XX and Sundara, as in, the Clear is not 3x or 4x better, as diminishing returns go, but they are a step up.

Against the HD6XX, the Clear just kills it in technical aspects. More like looking through a clean lens, and the HD6XX being a bit more foggy. The HD6XX performs quite well for the price, but the detail still came across as a little smeared. The Clear has greater extension and impact into the bass and treble. Better soundstage and much better imaging. In midrange, they were close, actually very similar, but the Clear still pulled ahead in detail. Bass sounded more textured and detailed too, and treble sounded more crisp and sparkly. Just a nice balance, without going overboard. Might not sound as relaxed as the HD6XX, but performs way better.

I think the Sundara gets much closer to the Clear, and I kinda take back the notion that the Clear blows it away. Again, it's still better, but not by much, which goes to show just how incredible the value of the Sundara is. Soundstage was similar, but the Sundara actually sounded a little more open to me when I compared them, just a smidge, and I think this is due to its treble having a little more air. I also found the Sundara to have slightly better bass texturing, due to the planar driver, with a little more space and definition between bass notes. But where those few areas of the Sundara beat the Clear maybe just marginally, the Clear has a greater advantage everywhere else. The midrange on the Clear is just better. It's more detailed and more full sounding, like the HD6XX. The upper region of the Sundara just sounded more plasticky and thin, and vocals and guitars have less body. And snares, noticeably, sounded more thin like paper on the Sundara, where they sounded more filled in and lifelike on the Clear. Lastly, the Sundara has a peak somewhere that adds this odd grain or brightness to vocals on some recordings that was a little annoying, kinda like it was over tilting lower-treble sibilance on some music. The Clear can get a little bright, but didn't have this issue. And of course, the Clear just had much better build.

If you end up not liking them, they are super hot right now so you would have no problem selling them. But I think, as cliche as this may sound, they kinda sound like a combination of the two but even better; the tonality of the HD6XX with the technicality of the Sundara, just more refined all around. I really liked my HD6XX and Sundara, but I LOVE my Clear (don't make this out to sound like I'm trying to sell them to you )

 

^ To add, I can't believe I wrote all of that without mentioning the one area the Clear is perhaps is best known for, and the area it beats both of these quite handily: dynamics. The punch and energy of the Clear just makes them incredibly engaging and satisfying. If you're into that kind of "punch and slam" quality, the Clear is certainly a great choice.

 

Another vote here for the Focal Clear. They do remind me of the HD600 a lot, just more of everything, and imo a more balanced sound than the 800S. I rotate between three headphones, Clear for focused listening, LCD-X (with Loki EQ) for the occasional fun sound, and HD600 for monitoring. Even though the Clear can replace the HD600 sound-wise, HD600 is lighter (won't slide off my head lying down) and just fine for casual or background listening.

 

That’s actually the key for me - dynamics is where I think a lot of high end headphones fall short and end up sounding boring, for lack of a better word. Thank you!

 

You are welcome and yeah their level of dynamics makes them perfect for rock, pop and hip hop. The layering makes them great for electronic too. Just a solid all-rounder.

I was pretty amazed listening to them for the first time, and being able to almost FEEL the detail. Acoustic strings sounded like they were being played right beside me.