Upgrade or save more?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by CMT, Jun 23, 2020.

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  1. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    I've asked this question before, but more time has passed and I've done nothing, so I thought I'd ask for opinions again. My current system (Pioneer PD-HS7 (1990s) CD player; Rega Planar 6 turntable with Ortophon Bronze 2M cartridge; Outlaw Audio rr2160 integrated amplifier; KEF R3 speakers; Straightwire Super Quad speaker wire) sounds great. I'm very happy with it, but, as always happens, I guess, I'm used to it now after about 11 months since upgrading everything. I want that thrill that I felt when I went from the low-fi system I had before this to my current configuration. I have $1,000 to spend.

    There about 600 hours on the current stylus. What would provide a significant next step? I'm thinking a cartridge upgrade might be the best idea? Nagaoka MP-200? MP-500? I listen almost entirely to classical LPs and CDs and have no interest in streaming anything. I rather like the physical object--LP jackets and CD booklets, etc. I like the cover art very much. Ideas? Or should I keep saving for a bigger step up, thinking again when I can spend, say, $2,000?

    Thanks
     
  2. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Save up for a better amp. If you play a lot of CD then a DAC would make a nice improvement there.
    -Bill
     
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  3. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    I would think of a subwoofer, but not as much for classical music. With classical, detail is the name of that game, so I believe you are on the right track with the new cartridge. You would also benefit from floor standing loudspeakers for a more robust presentation, depending on room size. I am considering a much better table and cartridge as well, and have reached out to some real heavy hitters in analog for advice, cartridges like Lyra, Koetsu and Kisiki, but they are all more expensive than you have quoted, however, I think you are going to have to take a big jump with the cartridge to find the magic you are searching for.
     
  4. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Yeah, not interested in the subwoofer route. These KEF R3s have more than enough bass for me. First, I listen mostly to classical music and sometimes these speakers shake the room if there are deep organ notes or a big percussion section. The speakers, I think would require an investment in the $4,000 range or so to result in a really audible difference. Also, I'm not convinced there's a better table out there for $1,000. This one was about $1,400.
     
  5. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Do you really think there's a $1,000 amp out there that sounds startlingly better than the amp I have (which was $950 or so with tax)? But you said save up, so I guess you mean something more expensive....
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  6. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    What about an external phono stage? Just today I upgraded to a Parasound JC3 Jr (purchased used for less than your $1000 budget) and am absolutely stunned by the improvement.
     
  7. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    I've thought about that idea, but there are SO many at SO many price points, all or most made by companies I've never heard of that I would have absolutely no idea where to begin. Is a phono stage likely to have more or less impact on overall sound quality than the cartridge, I wonder? Would be interested in seeing some evidence based information on that subject.
     
  8. jonwoody

    jonwoody Tragically Unhip

    Location:
    Washington DC
    Maybe but keep saving if you can a find an amp that blows your amp away and keep auditioning as much as you can. The amp and your digital front end seem your weakest links at this point.
     
  9. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    This forum is a great place to begin your research. The Parasound JC3 Jr (I assume you've heard of Parasound) was the single biggest improvement of any upgrade I have ever made to my system. Different carts sound different. Different speakers sound different. This phono stage sounds BETTER and the improvement is not subtle.
     
    CMT likes this.
  10. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    No, I don't know anything about Parasound or any other maker of phono stages (but this is very helpful).

    To give you some perspective, I upgraded everything about 10-11 months ago from the system I'd owned since the late 1980s-early 1990s (the Pioneer CD player (which I should point out maybe was $1,000 30 years ago, so not by any means a cheaply made machine, although, come to think of it, I'm using the DAC that's in the Outlaw amp) sounds good to me, so I kept it--but again, I tend to forget that I'm using the DAC in the amp, connected by an optical cable). I had been using a Technics direct drive turntable with a very cheap cartridge on it, a Technics integrated amp (both from the same period--early 90s) and a pair of Yamaha NS-10s connected with lamp cord. So, the system I now have has been a startling improvement. I guess I'm wondering if, for $1,000 or so, I can do something to give the current system a boost that I can really hear--something startling again.
     
  11. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    I think for us both a killer, detailed accurate cartridge is the answer, but everyone likes something different, it's very difficult to get even one person to agree on what cartridge is best, and then you have to worry about which cartridges will work with your specific table and arm, who knows these things ???? :shrug:
     
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  12. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Yes, I know how you feel. The Nagaoka cartridges seem interesting to me based on reviews I've read, but I've never actually heard one. I like my current set-up in that it seems to be quite neutral and really allows what's in the recording to come through as it was recorded (both good and bad), and I like that. I don't know how a different cartridge or phono stage would affect that. Would have to audition candidates, of course.
     
  13. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    I have the Parasound JC-3 Jr. and I have owned the JC-3 +. I do not know how they compare to other phono stages, but I am convinced they are both high quality products, and would be a real improvement over any phono stage included in any receiver or integrated amplifier. I'm also not sure which would offer more improvement, a top notch cartridge OR a top notch phono stage, my guess would be both are equally important. You know the old saying, you are only as good as your weakest component.
     
  14. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    As I said, I just got the Parasound JC3 Jr today and I cannot stop listening to my albums. Startling is EXACTLY how I would describe the improvement. Stunning and game changing are other terms I would use.
     
  15. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    He already has a pretty nice cart. Looking at is equipment. I'd say the phono stage built into his am is likely the weakest link. He could blow his whole budget on a phono stage, or split it 50/50 on a phono stage and cartridge upgrade. Or maybe get the phono stage now and a new cart, or perhaps just a 2M black stylus (the Bronze and black share the same body) when his current stylus wears out.
     
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  16. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    I had the MP-200 (actually MP150 with MP200 stylus - other than color the bodies are the same) for a while. It was a very nice cart but I found my vintage carts were as good, or better. So, I sold the Nagaoka. It will sound different than your 2M Bronze, but not sure if it will sound better - to you. Only you can answer that.
     
  17. vinylontubes

    vinylontubes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Yup this is kind of the problem. At some point you have to just jump off the cliff and hope the water is deep enough. But, you're probably wise to see if someone's done it first. So do as much research as you can. I've bought plenty of MC cartridges and phono stages. And each affects the other. So find a combination that works well together. I ended up with a Benz-Micro Glider with a Musical Surrounding Phonomena 2+ because this combination reviewed well. And when I got them, it worked well. It was a noticeable improvement over what I had before.
     
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  18. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    So, I've been thinking and talking to my local dealer. I'm beginning to like the idea of upgrading the phono stage and, when the time comes, to replace the Ortophon Bronze 2M stylus with the Black stylus, which apparently fits the Bronze body. I appreciate the ideas about phono stages people have given, but the Parasound unit has been described to me as a bit "dry" (although I'm not sure what that means exactly) and my dealer thinks the Rega Aria might be a better match with my system. Ania thoughts about the Aria?
     
  19. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    Described as dry by who and compared to what?
     
  20. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    By my local dealer, whom I respect. He's been in the business since the 70s. I don't think he meant to be especially critical and I think he meant in relation to the Rega Aria.
     
  21. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    Does he sell the Parasound, or only the Rega?

    Also, was he talking about the MM, MC performance, or both?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  22. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    We were talking about MM systems mostly. He sells neither at the moment as the store is shut down. He's not the kind of guy who would push one because it's the one he sells.
     
  23. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    If he sells neither brand, I'd be curious to know how much time he's spent listening to both.

    The reviews and comments I've read about the JC3 Jr seem to unanimously praise its MM performance and list that as it's strong point. That's one reason I got one, as I run vintage high end MM/MI carts.

    One possible advantage to the Rega is it looks like you can actually run two cartridges/tables with it concurrently. At least if I'm reading their description correctly: "Housed within Rega's latest half width custom designed case are two entirely separate, high performance phono stages." I like the option of being able to have two tables in my system and this could possibly eliminate the need to buy two separate phono stages.
     
  24. CMT

    CMT Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sebastopol, CA
    Yes, that seems to be a feature of the Rega unit, but I don't anticipate ever running two turntables at the same time. I don't have space for it for one thing. One is enough. Speaking of space, the Rega design appears to be much smaller. As for my dealer, I know he has sold the Rega units in the past. I'm sure he's very familiar with it. Don't know about the other. It is, of course, just one opinion, which is why I'm soliciting others here. :)
     
  25. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    Yes, it is a nice feature, but then I'd just have to go out and buy and expensive LOMC cartridge. I've only had the Parasound JC3 Jr for 3 days, but I continue to be very impressed with it's performance. Of course, I don't own, nor have I ever heard, the Reag Aria. So, I'm can't offer any comparison, but I do urge you to read the user reviews of the Parasound here, and elsewhere. The only negative comments I've read is that the LOMC performance isn't great, but for me that's not an issue. I bought it specifically for use with my MM/MI carts.
     
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