Upgrade or save more?

To everyone suggesting a cartridge upgrade, I'd like to ask - what's wrong withe 2M Bronze? It's a fine cart with a neutral character, which is very important for Classical music. It also has a fine Line contact stylus - no slouch, that still isn't too demanding of setup .

Also remember the arm is a Rega, that lacks fine adjustments needed for more advanced stylus profiles. Even the Black with its Shibata stylus will likely be a PITA, possibly never-ending.

I'd suggest keeping the Bronze.

I second the opinion of upgrading the phono. But, if you stick with MM - why spend money on MC capabilities you will never use? Instead get the most bang for your buck by getting the best MM phono you can get at your budget. My suggestion would be the Lounge LCR III with at least Silver, or better yet - the Gold upgrade. If you buy a stock Gold unit - it also comes with a nice headphone amplifier built in. If you don't care for headphones - you can ask Robert to just build you an LCR phono at Gold level.

You will be BLOWN AWAY by the improvement, compared to the built-in phono of the Outlaw, guaranteed.

Your next improvement could be an outboard DAC. For Classical music, you might consider a NOS DAC (non-oversampling), they sound most analog compared to other DACs. But even an oversampling standalone DAC, even a $300 - $400 one (consider Schiit Modi Multibit or Cambridge DACMagic+) will wipe the floor with the internal DAC of your Outlaw, which is probably a $20 chip, at best.

On a unit that cost $899 new and has multiple capabilities, no ONE single capability will be at its best possible quality level - that is why I avoid anything built-in, period, and have gone with separates across the board.

If spent wisely, even your modest budget, or just a trifle more, can result in HUGE improvement, as compared with all the cheap (forgive that word, I'm NOT being a snob) built-in stuff.

 

put the $1k in the S&P 500 index.

thank me later.

 

I just upgraded from a RR2160 to a Yamaha a-s2100. I'm very happy with the jump, and it's only been a few hours since I turned the power on. Granted, it's more than a $1000, but if you factor in what you can get for selling the RR2160, it's not _that_ much more if you can wait a bit and save.

Before then, however, I found an external phono pre-amp made a big difference. I went with a Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ - I thought this was a noticeable improvement over the RR2160's internal phone stage.

Sounds like your existing turntable and cart are solid. Speakers too. I'd go amp or phono stage.

 

If you go the separate phono stage route look at the Sutherland KC Vibe, excellent value at $900

 

The Bronze is a very nice cart, to really outperform it rather than moving sideways you are looking at MCs, a phono stage upgrade is the best use of resources and should unlock a lot of hidden potential in the Bronze, I've heard the Bronze through built in stages and through phono stages from Trichord, Lehmann and Electrocompaniet, bog standard built in phono stages really hold the Bronze's performance back. I'll leave specific recommendations to American members as the phono stage market is very different from ours.

 

Actually, after reading your posts yesterday, I did read some reviews and, as you say, the Parasound JC3 Jr. appears to be very well thought of. It is considerably more expensive than the Rega Aria, though. But I have by no means eliminated it. Still thinking.

 

Not until it all crashes again.

 

Yes, I definitely encourage you to do as much research as possible. Short of an in-home trial, reading as many reviews (both professional and user comments on forums such as this) to try to reach a conclusion about the best choice for your taste, preferences, system, etc. is the way to go.

Regarding price: both the Parasound JC3 Jr and the Rega Aria have a list price of $1495 and that's what they sell for at online dealers like Audio Advisor, Music Direct, Acoustic Sounds, etc. When recommending the JC3 Jr, I assumed that was your budget.

And honestly, I would not even have the JC3 Jr if I hadn't gotten a great deal on a barely used sample semi-locally. One thing I will say is when it comes to my local market, people are cheap, especially when it comes to high end gear. I have suffered the consequences as a seller, but this time, I was able to reap the benefit as a buyer. And even then, this was a major purchase for me, the single most expensive piece of audio gear I have ever purchased.

 

The Aria is a very sweet sounding phono stage. I'd stick with the 2M Bronze stylus. Actually, if you do, you can just buy the Fono MM and be done. It's also a very nice sounding MM phono stage. And I applaud you for buying it from your local dealer. Everyone should do that.
-Bill

 

My mistake then. For some reason I though the Parasound was much more expensive.

 

You must have been thinking of the Plus model, not Jr.

 

I'd ditch the Rega for a new Technics. Used to have a 90s CDP too but it gave up the ghost last year, so I upgraded, but I see it's totally secondary to you. Your CDP might be on it's last legs. I'm sorry to break the news to you, but just when you think something's gonna last forever, it dies on you.

 

The CD player I have isn't at all secondary to me. I play CDs about as often as I play LPs. My CD player, for the time being, is doing just fine. It goes without saying that machines will work until they stop working.

When you say "ditch the Rega for a new Technics" what are talking about? Ditch my new Rega Planar 6? Why would I do that?

 

Yes. Probably. In that case, I suppose the sensible thing to do would be to arrange in in-home audition of the two, but I don't know of anyone who handles the Parasound products locally.

[Edit: I looked at Parasound's website and it lists my local dealer as an authorized dealer of their products. Hmmm..... So, if that's correct, he should be able to let me hear both the Rega and Parasound products.]

 

Donate the money to charity.

 

Well, concentrating your efforts on a 1K cart to play through an Outlaw receiver is not necessarily going to grant you an audible difference. Don't get me wrong; I love the Outlaw and would buy one this Monday if they started selling it in my country. I have a dislike for Rega TTs (but that's personal) So my advice would be to get a great CDP instead. They don't make them like they used to, but soon they won't be making them at all I'm afraid.

You don't want a sub, but have you considered floorstanders ? (if your room can accomodate them, that is)

 

My speakers are only two months old. I'm very happy with the KEF R3s. As for the CD player, no, I imagine they don't make them like they used to, but the one I have was made when they DID make them like they used to. It was a fairly high-end unit, costing $1,000 in the early 1990s. The CD player, speakers, and turntable are the areas I think would make the least difference in sound quality at the moment. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinking mostly about the phono stage at present. It seems to be the idea that is most appealing to me.

 

And that's OK

 

Still thinking about this. I've at least come to the conclusion that I'll probably keep the cartridge as is and the upgrading the phono stage is probably the best thing to do. Current candidates:

1. Rega Aria
2. Parasound JC3 Jr.
3. Sutherland 20/20

Yes, this last one is a bit more, but I've been reading some excellent reviews. It seems very large physically though. That's what the Rega Aria has going for it. It's the only one of the three I could install without a whole lot of hassle rearranging things--which I'm willing to do for a component that's worth it (there is room for it behind the TV, behind the power unit you can see in the photo below with the red REGA script lit up). Space is very tight. As it is, I have to reach behind the TV to move the tone arm on the turntable. The Sutherland could maybe go under the turntable on the stack that supports the turntable--but that's not ideal, I assume. I suppose the upper right space above the TV and next to the amplifier would work, but, apparently the Sutherland has TWO power supplies, and I have only one open outlet left that's convenient. It's always something.....

Any ideas anyone?

 

I'd try to audition a well thought of zero feedback discrete design, either tube or solid state, there's quite a few around and sometimes get talked about here, they generally give a more natural sound than high feedback circuits, with the usual IMO disclaimers attached.

 

Such as?

 

I don't really know what you have access to audition, but like I said, there's been many listed in past threads at all the price levels, both new and used, tube and solid state...

Ayre
Pass Labs
Icon Audio
Phasemation
Rothwell
Conrad Johnson
Zesto
Herron
AudioNemesis
AQVOX
Decware
LAMM
Aesthetix
ALO Audio
NAT Audio
...

 

Thank you but a number of things come to mind reading this.

First of all, I don't have any interest in tubes. I want something simple, compact, and maintenance-free. Second, I have, literally, never heard of a single one of those makers, so wouldn't have a clue where to begin. Third, what makes these different from and better than those I'm considering? Also, I don't know what you mean by a "zero feedback discrete design". Can you educate me?

 

Well, there's some pretty big names in the high end world on the list, so kinda surprised, but maybe this is going a bit off topic, it was just something to consider, I may have misunderstood what you were asking in your post, nothing wrong with the ones on your list, they are all very popular phono stages.

 

Your Outlaw.