Upgrade TT Cartridge or Phono stage

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Ajjj, Sep 16, 2020.

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  1. Ajjj

    Ajjj Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    nyc
    I've seen older threads on this question but its always been very specific to the situation as opposed to good old audio theory. But here's my specific situation as well

    Current setup
    Rega P10 Apheta 3
    Sutherland 20/20 LPS Phonostage

    I have an opportunity to upgrade to either the Aphelion 2 cartridge or to the Sutherland duo or Phonoblock Enhanced (used).

    Thoughts?
     
  2. sturgus

    sturgus Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis Mo
    You are kind of at the point where the next 10% improvement cost 90% of the money invested. I think if it were me I would look at getting the Duo. The 20/20 is such a good stage you won't take a beating if you sell. This will be out of left field but have you thought of trying the Graham Slee loaner program? For the price of shipping you could try the Accession for a couple of weeks in your system and see how it compares with what you have. worth a shot.
     
    macster likes this.
  3. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    My recommendation would be none of the options you are considering. Buy a step up transformer and use the MM input on the Sutherland.

    Also, I think if you are at this level, avoid buying anything you are not able to test at home before buying.
     
    macster likes this.
  4. Ajjj

    Ajjj Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    nyc
    Thx, I'll look into the loaner program but I noticed the Accession is only for MM cartridges? The rega is MC. Did the MM's for awhile but much prefer the MC - blacker than black and more nuanced imo.
     
  5. Ajjj

    Ajjj Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    nyc
    Your second point has a lot of merit. Hard to do thats why i tend to buy used, so i won't make a costly mistake.
     
  6. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    Buy better records is my suggestion.
     
  7. Ajjj

    Ajjj Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    nyc
    I decided to do both. Thx all.
    Allnic has an interesting product the HA3000 (now the 5000). HA IS HEAD AMP and I think it works like a SUT but active. Anyone familar?
     
  8. Tom Littlefield

    Tom Littlefield Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    The 20/20 does not have a MM input...
     
  9. Ajjj

    Ajjj Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    nyc
    I wondered that as well but its clearly marketed as an MM/MC phonostage so I thought you just change the gain stage to 40db or 45db and 47 ohms to make it work, right? Pretty sure I'm right. So my question still stands.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  10. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    If it's got 40db gain that is what normally would be used for MM. No MC cartridge will sound loud enough with a gain of 40db unless is a high output.
     
  11. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I personally rather use a SUT than an active amplifier but I am not familiar with that unit.
     
  12. Ajjj

    Ajjj Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    nyc
    Exactly so the 20/20 IS IN FACT both an MC and MM phonostage. I am currently using it with an MC cartridge and therefore have the gain set to 64db. And 100ohms per Rega Athelion2 specs.

    However if I were to add a SUT or the Allnic head amp, between the TT and 20/20 phonostage, then I'd switch the gain to 40-45db and adjust to 47 ohms.

    Sorry maybe I'm missing your point.
     
  13. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Sorry, I probably have not explained it well enough although I don't understand why you'll be looking at the Allnic head amp ,when you phono stage already can do MC.

    Going back to my point, if you set your Sutherland to a gain of 40db you are bypassing a number of semiconductors and associated circuitry that gives you the extra gain to obtain the 64db.
    What I am suggesting is that instead of that gain being obtained by those semiconductors you use a transformer instead and use the minimun gain in the Sutherland. Many people and I feel the transformer opens the sound of an MC and improves the soundstage, that was the reason for my suggestion. I hope it is a bit clearer now.
     
  14. Ajjj

    Ajjj Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    nyc
    I agree with you. I feel like we are talking past each other. I can leave settings as is, or I can use the MM SETTINGS and put a SUT in front. Now if you read the technical analysis on the HA amd the reviews, its simply a similar technology that is supposed to perform better than a typical passive SUT.
     
  15. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Actually, you aren't, it's the same circuit regardless of gain, all you are changing is a resistor value in the feedback network when changing gain. There are preamps that work as you suggest, many discrete designs have a switched MC stage, and tube amps with a separate MC input that adds a gain stage, but most IC designs like the Sutherland use opamps that have plenty of gain available.

    Below is the complete circuit for the left channel (minus the power supply) and you can see the gain adjust jumpers on the left, it's just selecting which resistor to use ... in this case, it is setting the gain on the input instrumentation amplifier IC there on the lower left, which is basically three low noise specialized opamps integrated in one package ...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Tom Littlefield

    Tom Littlefield Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    Yes the 20/20 has gain settings of 40db, 46db, 52db, 58db and 64db.

    I am not a SUT fan, it makes no sense to me to add another box to the reproduction chain when you have a perfectly fine and highly reviewed phono stage to begin with.
     
  17. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    If you know the resistor only changes the level of feedback by looking at the schematic then I stand corrected, thank you!:righton:

    It would make sense if it sounds better, I am all for simplicity and less stuff in the chain but, have you tried a good quality SUT?
     
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